BoxRec

Lol i'm not anti-Tyson i'm anti 90% of his fanbase who have no actual knowledge of boxing outside of Mike Tyson.

I actually like Tyson and think he'd whack a whole string of old school fighters, btu once we start going into him stretching guys like Ali and Holmes and any other opponent that defies all known logic about Mike Tyson, thats when i start projectile vomiting at my PC screen.

overhand_right wrote:Lol i'm not anti-Tyson i'm anti 90% of his fanbase who have no actual knowledge of boxing outside of Mike Tyson.

Agreed
I think that's what winds most of us up...

overhand_right wrote:Lol i'm not anti-Tyson i'm anti 90% of his fanbase who have no actual knowledge of boxing outside of Mike Tyson.

I actually like Tyson and think he'd whack a whole string of old school fighters, btu once we start going into him stretching guys like Ali and Holmes and any other opponent that defies all known logic about Mike Tyson, thats when i start projectile vomiting at my PC screen.

Well imo, he would been waxed by someone like Ali. So you are right about that one :P .
As for Holmes, i never really rated him that highly since his opponenets were not in the same level as the guys Ali, Frazier, Liston, Foreman etc. fought.

I personally would have thought a Prime Tyson would take out a Prime Holmes. That is my opinion, but of course i can understand why others may feel Holmes would beat Tyson.

Ah but Tysons opponents aren't up there with Ali's either.

The difference is when Holmes was decked, hurt or behind he came back to win by kayo.

When Tyson was decked, hurt or behind he lost, by stoppage.

Holmes reigned for 7 years until coming apart at 36 against an ATG.

Tyson reigned all of 3 years against the same level of opposition, and lost to Buster Douglas.

Holmes used to whack the likes of Buster Douglas routinely.

Buster Douglas was better than Larry Holmes could ever dream to be.

OHR, you seem to know your stuff, i want to ask your opinion on Larry Holmes' career Post-Tyson.

Obviously at the time he fought Tyson, he was passed his best. Not an old man by any means, but passed it.

After his Tyson bout, he went on for 24 more fights.

Against a Prime(?) Holyfield (4 Years after the Tyson bout), he lost by UD, but a good effort. He lost to a Good Mccall (7 years after Tyson Bout too by UD, but again a good effort.

Amongst those 24 fights, he beat the likes of Ray Mercer, Jesse Fergusen, Ribalta, Poirier.

What i am saying is, if he can put such good performances against these Boxers, many in their peaks, but against a Peak Tyson, he was KO'd in the 4th, his first and only KO in his career.

Of course in no way was Larry Holmes a favorite for that fight, but Tyson deserves some merit for beating such a warrior in 4 Rounds. Just shows how powerful Tyson was in his Peak.

Here's my take...What do you gentlemen think?

I think it goes back to a big puncher...An older Larry Holmes could absorb shots from the boxers observer 1 named but he couldn't , at that age, absorb nor avoid Tyson's bombs...

Watching that fight, Tyson got pissed when Holmes started jabbing him and then walked through it...

Everybody that beat Tyson beat him by sticking, moving, and holding (wrestling him)...At 38 Holmes was just too old...But Holmes could outbox or at least hang with those other fighter because they couldn't hurt him...

TheOneIsHere2008 wrote:How do you gentlemen think Mike Tyson would do against the following boxers in his mythical prime?

Muhammad Ali

Larry Holmes

George Foreman

Joe Frazier

Earnie Shavers

Sonny Liston

Floyd Patterson

Jerry Quarry

Oscar Bonavena

Rocky Marciano

Jersey Joe Walcott

Joe Louis

Lenox Lewis

Riddick Bowe

Jack Dempsey

I included some champions, some sluggers, and some just generally mean fighters like Bonavena...


on edit- I forgot Evander Holyfield ...Don't forget Evander was supposed to be the shot 34-35 year old fighter who had just lost to Riddick Bowe and Michael Moorer...

Of the bunch up there:

Tyson anihiliates Jack Dempsey, Lennox Lewis, Joe Louis, Rocky Marciano, Floyd Patterson, Oscar Bonavena, Earnie Shavers, Jerry Quarry and probably Jersey Joe Walcott.

Tyson loses with Frazier, Ali, Foreman, Holmes, Holyfield, and Bowe

elmersalsa wrote:

TheOneIsHere2008 wrote:How do you gentlemen think Mike Tyson would do against the following boxers in his mythical prime?

Muhammad Ali

Larry Holmes

George Foreman

Joe Frazier

Earnie Shavers

Sonny Liston

Floyd Patterson

Jerry Quarry

Oscar Bonavena

Rocky Marciano

Jersey Joe Walcott

Joe Louis

Lenox Lewis

Riddick Bowe

Jack Dempsey

I included some champions, some sluggers, and some just generally mean fighters like Bonavena...


on edit- I forgot Evander Holyfield ...Don't forget Evander was supposed to be the shot 34-35 year old fighter who had just lost to Riddick Bowe and Michael Moorer...

Of the bunch up there:

Tyson anihiliates Jack Dempsey, Lennox Lewis, Joe Louis, Rocky Marciano, Floyd Patterson, Oscar Bonavena, Earnie Shavers, Jerry Quarry and probably Jersey Joe Walcott.

Tyson loses with Frazier, Ali, Foreman, Holmes, Holyfield, and Bowe

i dont know about him beating a few of thse guys

observer1 wrote:OHR, you seem to know your stuff, i want to ask your opinion on Larry Holmes' career Post-Tyson.

Obviously at the time he fought Tyson, he was passed his best. Not an old man by any means, but passed it.

After his Tyson bout, he went on for 24 more fights.

Against a Prime(?) Holyfield (4 Years after the Tyson bout), he lost by UD, but a good effort. He lost to a Good Mccall (7 years after Tyson Bout too by UD, but again a good effort.

Amongst those 24 fights, he beat the likes of Ray Mercer, Jesse Fergusen, Ribalta, Poirier.

What i am saying is, if he can put such good performances against these Boxers, many in their peaks, but against a Peak Tyson, he was KO'd in the 4th, his first and only KO in his career.

Of course in no way was Larry Holmes a favorite for that fight, but Tyson deserves some merit for beating such a warrior in 4 Rounds. Just shows how powerful Tyson was in his Peak.

When Holmes fought Tyson, he was a 38 year old man coming off a two year layoff, trained for a few weeks and walked right in with a peak Tyson. At that age with that preparation against someone the calibre of Tyson -- a young fast active skilled puncher with a good chin -- he was only ever going to get splattered.

When he came back in 91 he did it the right way, shook off the ring rust by boxing 5 capable journeymen and getting rds under his belt. He was prepared for Mercer, who wasn't prepared for Holmes and assumed he'd demolish him the way he had done Morrison. Mercer also obviously doesn't bring the skills or pace or Tyson and Holmes walked it by outsmarting him.

When he boxed Holyfield he had the benefit of 6 wins under his belt and Holyfield for all his other qualities doesn't bring explosive 1 punch power like Tyson. IMO Holyfield obviously was in control throughout and never really turned it up, and Holmes at 42 was out of his depth but spoiled his way to the finish like the crafty old fox he is.

Similar with his McCall shot, he put together 7 straight wins over guys like Bigfoot, Garing Lane, Ribalta, Jesse Ferguson & had perfected how to fight as an oldie and outsmart younger guys without expending too much energy. He showed bits of pure class against McCall but at 45 age did him in & he lost a narrow one, although was nearly decapped in the 9th rd when McCall turned it up.

(Worht noting that McCall was less explosive without Manny Steward or Richie Giaghetti in his corner, with Georgie Benton he was more defense and boxing-minded, less aggressive but that might be all overhand-b#llocks)

To cut a long rant short, there is no way any man pushing 40 can come off 2 years with a few weeks training and not get marmalised by a prime Tyson.

However because he was such a great born clever fighter, working his way back into contention and fighting 2 subsequent champs who weren't as murderous hitters as Tyson he could be competitive,

Tyson deserves credit for his icing of Holmes, even if the result does need an asterix next to it!

TheOneIsHere2008 wrote:Everybody that beat Tyson beat him by sticking, moving, and holding (wrestling him)...At 38 Holmes was just too old...But Holmes could outbox or at least hang with those other fighter because they couldn't hurt him...

Agreed.. They did hurt him, but they were easier for him to spoil and survive.

Come on then people who would have won this 1?

Boxers of the Past

they have many many debates about this.

sockdolager wrote:Boxers of the Past

they have many many debates about this.

Really? About Tyson Vs Ali?

Where's the debate? Tyson struggled against people who weren't overawed by him. If he couldn't be the intimidator, he became the intimidated. He'd have been in trouble in Ali's era.

glittermonkey wrote:

sockdolager wrote:Boxers of the Past

they have many many debates about this.

Really? About Tyson Vs Ali?

Where's the debate? Tyson struggled against people who weren't overawed by him. If he couldn't be the intimidator, he became the intimidated. He'd have been in trouble in Ali's era.

Prime Tyson beats any HW ever glittergay. You simply don't know much about boxing.

I guess in this day and age of warnings and bans I should mention that this is a joke.

sockdolager wrote:

glittermonkey wrote:

sockdolager wrote:Boxers of the Past

they have many many debates about this.

Really? About Tyson Vs Ali?

Where's the debate? Tyson struggled against people who weren't overawed by him. If he couldn't be the intimidator, he became the intimidated. He'd have been in trouble in Ali's era.

Prime Tyson beats any HW ever glittergay. You simply don't know much about boxing.

I guess in this day and age of warnings and bans I should mention that this is a joke.

Sounds about right.

Especially as Liston was the greatest intimidator of all time.

FACT

This post has been sponsored by TML productions. Any poster is cool in my book, bro, and life is sweet. Steve Molitor is the best.

Emerson Poncey Name Ghent wrote:Especially as Liston was the greatest intimidator of all time.

FACT

This post has been sponsored by TML productions. Any poster is cool in my book, bro, and life is sweet. Steve Molitor is sik.

Fixed!

Ali...Tyson wouldn't have any defense for Ali's jab...I think it would go pretty much like Tyson's fight with Lennox Lewis, Ali would control Tyson with his jab, and blitz him combinations...

glittermonkey wrote: Sounds about right.

Stop flirting with me, you're always trying to suck... nevermind.

While Tyson's first round blitz would've been dangerous for any heavyweight, in any era, beyond that he wouldn't have had a chance vs a prime Ali. Hell, even the Ali of the mid '70s would've taken him to school.

Seeing as how lower eschelon heavies of his day like "Quick" Tillis, Mitch Green, Bonecrusher & Tucker all extended & troubled him to varrying degrees, it's not at all difficult envisioning Ali totally beffudling & frustrating Tyson over serveral rounds until he either got exhausted & TKO'd ala the Douglas fight. Or he'd quit in his corner ala Liston.

its a toss up... tyson was ten times faster and more aggressive than big george... tyson would have a shot at the very top of his game...

on the other hand... his problem is that ali played a good allaround game... he was great in the ring but he was the greatest outside of the ring... with tyson being so weak in the head... ali may have him beat before entering the ring

joe kurtz wrote:While Tyson's first round blitz would've been dangerous for any heavyweight, in any era, beyond that he wouldn't have had a chance vs a prime Ali. Hell, even the Ali of the mid '70s would've taken him to school.

Seeing as how lower eschelon heavies of his day like "Quick" Tillis, Mitch Green, Bonecrusher & Tucker all extended & troubled him to varrying degrees, it's not at all difficult envisioning Ali totally beffudling & frustrating Tyson over serveral rounds until he either got exhausted & TKO'd ala the Douglas fight. Or he'd quit in his corner ala Liston.

Up until The Thrilla In Manilla I like Ali's odds against any heavyweight of any era...Though he was no longer at his physical peak then he was still quick of hand, had a great beard and a big heart...After the Thrilla there was not much left as his struggles against ordinary and in some case less than ordinary fighters attest...

Tyson would have cracked under the sustained assault that Joe weathered for fourteen rounds in Manila...

ts20743 wrote:Ali...Tyson wouldn't have any defense for Ali's jab...I think it would go pretty much like Tyson's fight with Lennox Lewis, Ali would control Tyson with his jab, and blitz him combinations...

joe kurtz wrote:While Tyson's first round blitz would've been dangerous for any heavyweight, in any era, beyond that he wouldn't have had a chance vs a prime Ali. Hell, even the Ali of the mid '70s would've taken him to school.

Seeing as how lower eschelon heavies of his day like "Quick" Tillis, Mitch Green, Bonecrusher & Tucker all extended & troubled him to varrying degrees, it's not at all difficult envisioning Ali totally beffudling & frustrating Tyson over serveral rounds until he either got exhausted & TKO'd ala the Douglas fight. Or he'd quit in his corner ala Liston.

bada$$ wrote: on the other hand... his problem is that ali played a good allaround game... he was great in the ring but he was the greatest outside of the ring... with tyson being so weak in the head... ali may have him beat before entering the ring

all reasons as to why ali would beat mike tyson

p4p1 wrote:

ts20743 wrote:Ali...Tyson wouldn't have any defense for Ali's jab...I think it would go pretty much like Tyson's fight with Lennox Lewis, Ali would control Tyson with his jab, and blitz him combinations...

joe kurtz wrote:While Tyson's first round blitz would've been dangerous for any heavyweight, in any era, beyond that he wouldn't have had a chance vs a prime Ali. Hell, even the Ali of the mid '70s would've taken him to school.

Seeing as how lower eschelon heavies of his day like "Quick" Tillis, Mitch Green, Bonecrusher & Tucker all extended & troubled him to varrying degrees, it's not at all difficult envisioning Ali totally beffudling & frustrating Tyson over serveral rounds until he either got exhausted & TKO'd ala the Douglas fight. Or he'd quit in his corner ala Liston.

bada$$ wrote: on the other hand... his problem is that ali played a good allaround game... he was great in the ring but he was the greatest outside of the ring... with tyson being so weak in the head... ali may have him beat before entering the ring

all reasons as to why ali would beat mike tyson

I think any version of Ali up to Manila handles Tyson...After Manila I'm not so sure...