Classic American West Coast Boxing

dagosd2000 · Post by **dagosd2000** » 29 Oct 2009, 20:07

When I was watching Luis Rodrigeuz train for his fight with Mexican middleweight champ Rafael Gutierrez in San Diego,Louie Sarria was training him. Angelo came in 4 days before the fight. Sarria would do all the training. Dundee and Rodriguez rarely spoke to each other. After "El Feo" won that one,he got his shot with Nino.

I wrote about this once before. My dad and I were at ringside. My father had lost interest in the fights,but wanted to see this one. Gutierrez was working Luis pretty good,but then Luis uncorked a left hook that came from 20 miles south of the border. A one punch KO.

My dad then shocked the hell out of me. He walks up to Dundee and put his arm around him as he and Rodriguez are heading for the lockers.
"Well,"said my dad to Angelo."Looks like you're gonna' get your shot."
Dundee smiled at my dad.
"Yeah Joe we're in."
The three of them disappeared inside the dressing room arm in arm.

I still think about that a lot.

Rick Farris · Post by **Rick Farris** » 29 Oct 2009, 20:17

dagosd2000 wrote:When I was watching Luis Rodrigeuz train for his fight with Mexican middleweight champ Rafael Gutierrez in San Diego,Louie Sarria was training him. Angelo came in 4 days before the fight. Sarria would do all the training. Dundee and Rodriguez rarely spoke to each other. After "El Feo" won that one,he got his shot with Nino.

I wrote about this once before. My dad and I were at ringside. My father had lost interest in the fights,but wanted to see this one. Gutierrez was working Luis pretty good,but then Luis uncorked a left hook that came from 20 miles south of the border. A one punch KO.

My dad then shocked the hell out of me. He walks up to Dundee and put his arm around him as he and Rodriguez are heading for the lockers.
"Well,"said my dad to Angelo."Looks like you're gonna' get your shot."
Dundee smiled at my dad.
"Yeah Joe we're in."
The three of them disappeared inside the dressing room arm in arm.

I still think about that a lot.

Rog . . . That fight must have been the very first pro boxing promotion at the new San Diego International Sports Arena. I fought there within a week or two of that match, when the '69 Nat'l AAU tourney was held in S.D. that year.

-Rick Farris

Rick Farris · Post by **Rick Farris** » 29 Oct 2009, 20:43

Luis Rodriguez and Dundee . . .

I remember one of the first boxing matches I attended at the Olympic Auditorium was the second Luis Rodriguez vs. Rubin "Hurricane" Carter.
We had seats in the balcony, my dad remembered the riot after the Alacran Torres-Hiroyuki Ebihara bout the year before, and wanted to be above the action just in case.

I remember my grandfather looking to the corner of Rodriguez during Jimmy Lennon's introduction. He pointed to a guy wearing thick glasses and a bad rug.
"You see that guy with Rodriguez? That's Cassius Clay's trainer, Angelo Dundee."
I was more interested in the menacing look of Hurricane Carter, whom I was aware had KOed Emile Griffith in less than a round.
The bout took place about a year before Carter's arrest.

It wasn't a great fight, Rodriguez did a lot of running. Carter lost interest, wasn't in the fight. Rodriguez clearly won.
The best fight that night was a prelim featuring a San Diego bantamweight, Norman "Buzzsaw" Parra vs. Jose Portillo Lopez. A Cal state title fight.
Former State Champ Bumpy Parra is currently a trainer in San Diego, worked with our friend, Kid Rooter.

For years I had the poster to this fight. However, it was lost somewhere along the way since.

-Rick Farris

dagosd2000 · Post by **dagosd2000** » 29 Oct 2009, 23:55

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3dRAneqPC28

Poinciana

Ahmad Jamal(recorded at the Pershing Club. Chicago)

kikibalt · Post by **kikibalt** » 30 Oct 2009, 10:20

Photos and caption courtesy of Dan Hanley

Pops with 'Terrible' Terry Norris

Rick and Roger flanking 2009 inductee Brian Mitchell

El Gato, Greg Haugen, Orlando Canizales and Rafael Herrera at the memorabilia show

raylawpc · Post by **raylawpc** » 30 Oct 2009, 10:46

Rick Farris wrote:As I recall, Dundee had Leonard from his first day as a pro. He was with Ali from very early on in his pro career. And, he took over Luis Rodriguez' career soon after Luis fled Cuba to the USA.

But, even so, doesn't it say that much more about his knowledge and ability as a boxing guy that experienced guys like Napoles, Foreman, et al. turned to Dundee later in their careers? I mean, they had their choice of trainers, and they picked Dundee.
_______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

Dundee was brought in to work Leonard's corner, he didn't not work with him on style or boxing "tricks of the trade". Leonard has always credited Janks Morton for that.
Dundee was the last guy in camp. You know of course Leonard paid Angelo a flat rate. For the Hagler fight, Leonard paid him $120,000 for flying in a few days before the fight to work his corner. Angelo has value, but not as a teacher. Everybody knew that, even Pat O'Grady.

With Ali it was different. Again, Angelo had a boxer that he didn't have to teach. How could anybody teach the style that Ali used?
The Cubans? Again prefabricated products. Dundee was a great corner guy, known for being organized.
Put Dundee with a guy who knew how to box and was willing to fight, and he could do what he did best without having to get his hands too dirty.
Angelo is a great guy, but like Joe Goossen, couldn't teach a cat to crap in the box. That's a pretty well known fact.
Joe Goossen took three men from their first pro fight to world titles (and two he started their first day in the gym.) That is something Dundee never accomplished.
No cut on Angelo Dundee, but I have yet to see or hear a world champ credit Dundee for teaching him how box, punch, duck, or anything.
Angelo works the politics pretty good, he can credit his older brother Chris for setting him up in boxing.

-Rick Farris

I guess I was completely unaware how little respect people in the So. Cal. boxing community have for Angelo Dundee. My only exposure to Dundee is what I've seen on TV and read in the newspapers and, of course, what Pat used to say about him. Although Pat did not like Angelo, he had a lot of respect for him.

kikibalt · Post by **kikibalt** » 30 Oct 2009, 13:24

raylawpc wrote:I guess I was completely unaware how little respect people in the So. Cal. boxing community have for Angelo Dundee. My only exposure to Dundee is what I've seen on TV and read in the newspapers and, of course, what Pat used to say about him. Although Pat did not like Angelo, he had a lot of respect for him.

Tom...Its not lack of respect for Dundee, it just that he didn't train most of the fighters he worked the corners with, he was a name that looked good in the corner, not saying he didn't know anything about boxing, of course he did/does, but how many of those fighters did he train from day one of training camp? not many, and we all know that. Dundee like other name boxing guys would work corners without training the fighters, case in point Jackie McCoy who would take credit for the success of fighters train by other trainers, take Carlos Palomino, he was trained by Noe Cruz, Albert "Superfly" Sandoval was trained by Tony Cerda, my son Frankie, I trained. You would read in the papers, so & so fighter trained by Jackie McCoy won last nite, and we all knew that was not the case, So you might ask, why not say anything about that? well guys like me needed guys like McCoy to open doors for us, which he did, boxing been an "Ol' Boys Network", you just have to work with the Dundee's and McCoy's of boxing.

Rick Farris · Post by **Rick Farris** » 30 Oct 2009, 14:02

kikibalt wrote:
raylawpc wrote:I guess I was completely unaware how little respect people in the So. Cal. boxing community have for Angelo Dundee. My only exposure to Dundee is what I've seen on TV and read in the newspapers and, of course, what Pat used to say about him. Although Pat did not like Angelo, he had a lot of respect for him.
Tom...Its not lack of respect for Dundee, it just that he didn't train most of the fighters he worked the corners with, he was a name that looked good in the corner, not saying he didn't know anything about boxing, of cause he did/does, but how many of those fighters did he train from day one of training camp? not many, and we all know that. Dundee like other name boxing guys would work corners without training the fighters, case in point Jackie McCoy who would take credit for the success of fighters train by other trainers, take Carlos Palomino, he was trained by Noe Cruz, Albert "Superfly" Sandoval was trained by Tony Cerda, my son Frankie, I trained. You would read in the papers, so & so fighter trained by Jackie McCoy won last nite, and we all knew that was not the case, So you might ask, why not say anything about that? well guys like me needed guys like McCoy to open doors for us, which he did, boxing been an "Ol' Boys Network", you just have to work with the Dundee's and McCoy's of boxing.

Great post, Frank. I have never disrespected Angelo Dundee, but is it necessary to credit him as a "teacher" when his value in boxing is not related to teaching? The word "trainer" is used broadly in boxing. Some "corner men" specialize in cuts, others conditioning, others can teach a kid to box and design a strategy.
Few are good at everything. Dundee has his specialty and teaching boxers what to do in the ring is not one of them. This isn't just my opinion. I believe I have credited Angelo for his strengths, but I don't need to be a part of perpetuating boxing bullshit. It's like people wo consider Ali a "master boxer". Let's face it, Ali was great for many reasons, but he was not a master boxer. Willie Pep was a master boxer. I thought we could speak openly about boxing here, tell the truth. I don't know of anybody on this thread that deliberatly disrespects boxing people. I thought we were above the "fan level" opinion of the boxing legends, let them believe that Ali was the greatest, etc. Tom, I don't disrespect Angelo Dundee, but I also don't think he is a teacher.

Rick Farris · Post by **Rick Farris** » 30 Oct 2009, 14:08

Frank . . . Thanks for posting the photos sent you from this past weekend's WBHOF banquet. I'm enjoying them as this year my photographer (Monica) was unable to attend.
I have no personal pictures of the event, just what you guys share here. So it means a lot to me. Thanks!

-Rick Farris

dagosd2000 · Post by **dagosd2000** » 30 Oct 2009, 14:30

Who said it? In order to get along,you have to go along. Angelo Dundee was a guy that you had to be connected with to move your fighter up the ladder. Rick,Frank you guys aren't disrespecting Angelo Dundee. My story on him, with his wrong predictions, are matters of fact. It's not out of disrespect. Angelo Dundee was connected to some pretty unsavory characters who controlled the major fight arenas in the U.S. He knew what side his bread was buttered on.

Randyman · Post by **Randyman** » 30 Oct 2009, 14:48

Rick Farris wrote:Frank . . . Thanks for posting the photos sent you from this past weekend's WBHOF banquet. I'm enjoying them as this year my photographer (Monica) was unable to attend.
I have no personal pictures of the event, just what you guys share here. So it means a lot to me. Thanks!

-Rick Farris

Rick, I'm putting a video together to upload to youtube,com. similar to the one I made last year. It makes it easier for us to view all our photos. It's coming out pretty good. I hope you guys don't mind, I'm using all the photos uploaded here. I am putting the credits for the photo and it will be a "Classic American West Coast Boxing" Production.

I also dedicated the video to Lucia Rijker. I think she is deserving of it.

Randy

Randyman · Post by **Randyman** » 30 Oct 2009, 14:54

A micro minor blip on the radar, I know, but it was 33 years ago today that I fought my second and last fight at the old Aladdin Hotel in Las Vegas on the undercard of Mike Quarry vs Tom Bethea. Time flies when you're having fun. Just a personal reflection.

Randy

raylawpc · Post by **raylawpc** » 30 Oct 2009, 15:53

dagosd2000 wrote:Who said it? In order to get along,you have to go along. Angelo Dundee was a guy that you had to be connected with to move your fighter up the ladder. Rick,Frank you guys aren't disrespecting Angelo Dundee. My story on him, with his wrong predictions, are matters of fact. It's not out of disrespect. Angelo Dundee was connected to some pretty unsavory characters who controlled the major fight arenas in the U.S. He knew what side his bread was buttered on.

Who said it? Its credited to Sam Rayburn: "If you want to get along, go along."

Aside from his own fighters (everybody picks their own fighter publicly), what other predictions has he gotten wrong? This is the first time I've ever heard anybody say that Dundee was bad at picking fights.

raylawpc · Post by **raylawpc** » 30 Oct 2009, 15:58

Randyman wrote:A micro minor blip on the radar, I know, but it was 33 years ago today that I fought my second and last fight at the old Aladdin Hotel in Las Vegas on the undercard of Mike Quarry vs Tom Bethea. Time flies when you're having fun. Just a personal reflection.

Randy

Duane Bobick fought on that card too, didn't he Randy?

Rick Farris · Post by **Rick Farris** » 30 Oct 2009, 16:07

Randyman wrote:
Rick Farris wrote:Frank . . . Thanks for posting the photos sent you from this past weekend's WBHOF banquet. I'm enjoying them as this year my photographer (Monica) was unable to attend.
I have no personal pictures of the event, just what you guys share here. So it means a lot to me. Thanks!

-Rick Farris
Rick, I'm putting a video together to upload to youtube,com. similar to the one I made last year. It makes it easier for us to view all our photos. It's coming out pretty good. I hope you guys don't mind, I'm using all the photos uploaded here. I am putting the credits for the photo and it will be a "Classic American West Coast Boxing" Production.

I also dedicated the video to Lucia Rijker. I think she is deserving of it.

Randy

Randy . . . Thank you for putting the photos together on YouTube as you did last year. The way you do that is great, and appreciated.
I'm sure Lucia will also like it.

-Rick Farris

Rick Farris · Post by **Rick Farris** » 30 Oct 2009, 16:09

Randyman wrote:A micro minor blip on the radar, I know, but it was 33 years ago today that I fought my second and last fight at the old Aladdin Hotel in Las Vegas on the undercard of Mike Quarry vs Tom Bethea. Time flies when you're having fun. Just a personal reflection.

Randy

Special memory, Randy.

Randyman · Post by **Randyman** » 30 Oct 2009, 16:19

raylawpc wrote:
Randyman wrote:A micro minor blip on the radar, I know, but it was 33 years ago today that I fought my second and last fight at the old Aladdin Hotel in Las Vegas on the undercard of Mike Quarry vs Tom Bethea. Time flies when you're having fun. Just a personal reflection.

Randy
Duane Bobick fought on that card too, didn't he Randy?

Yes, Tom, he did. I had to look at his record to see who he fought that day. He won a 10 round decision against Fred Houpe. I was introduced to Duane that day by Mel and spoke with him briefly but to be honest I have no memory of him fighting on the card that day. Up until recently I always thought that Quarry and Bethea and my fight with Eduardo Barba were the only fights on the card. Maybe I got hit harder than I thought.

Randy

Rick Farris · Post by **Rick Farris** » 30 Oct 2009, 16:32

raylawpc wrote:
Randyman wrote:A micro minor blip on the radar, I know, but it was 33 years ago today that I fought my second and last fight at the old Aladdin Hotel in Las Vegas on the undercard of Mike Quarry vs Tom Bethea. Time flies when you're having fun. Just a personal reflection.

Randy
Duane Bobick fought on that card too, didn't he Randy?

Tom . . . Just checking Boxec I see that Bobick fought Fred Houpe that night.
Houpe was managed by Redd Foxx and fought under the name of "Young Sanford".
Hey Randy, do you remember seeing Redd Foxx that night?

-Rick Farris

Randyman · Post by **Randyman** » 30 Oct 2009, 16:38

Rick Farris wrote:
raylawpc wrote:
Randyman wrote:A micro minor blip on the radar, I know, but it was 33 years ago today that I fought my second and last fight at the old Aladdin Hotel in Las Vegas on the undercard of Mike Quarry vs Tom Bethea. Time flies when you're having fun. Just a personal reflection.

Randy
Duane Bobick fought on that card too, didn't he Randy?

Tom . . . Just checking Boxec I see that Bobick fought Fred Houpe that night.
Houpe was managed by Redd Foxx and fought under the name of "Young Sanford".
Hey Randy, do you remember seeing Redd Foxx that night?

-Rick Farris

Rick, I don't remember seeing or meeting Redd Foxx. If I did it's become a forgotten memory. He may have been there but I have no memory of him. I went to a taping of "Sanford and Son" a few years earlier and it was memorable so I think I would remember him. Memory is a funny thing isn't it? I remember "Young Sanford, I just didn't realize he was Fred Houpe.

Randy

Rick Farris · Post by **Rick Farris** » 30 Oct 2009, 17:21

Fred Houpe

heavyweight
alias Young Sanford
Chicago, Illinois, United States
height 6′ 0″
won 13 (KO 11) + lost 6 (KO 5) + drawn 0 = 19
rounds boxed 74

1998-12-05 194 Andre Purlette 188 22-0-0
Mahi Temple Shrine Auditorium, Miami, Florida, United States L TKO 2 6
~ time: 2:47 | referee: Bernie Soto ~

1996-09-23 204 Joe Hipp 157½ 33-4-0
Meydenbauer Center, Bellevue, Washington, United States L TKO 1 10
~ time: 1:55 ~
Houpe down once and took a standing 8 count.

1996-06-22 Tom Glesby 230 19-1-1
Prince George, British Columbia, Canada L TKO 3 10
1995-12-04 220 Leon Spinks 221 26-16-3
A Little Bit of Texas, Saint Louis, Missouri, United States W UD 8 8
~ judge: Marty Bickle | judge: Dan Kirner | judge: Kevin Milligan ~

1978-11-11 ST Gordon 11-5-0
Salt Lake City, Utah, United States L KO 4 10
1977-09-14 199 Larry Holmes 211 24-0-0
Caesars Palace, Las Vegas, Nevada, United States L TKO 7 10
~ time: 0:47 | referee: Buddy Basilico ~

1976-10-30 195 Duane Bobick 214 37-0-0
The Aladdin, Las Vegas, Nevada, United States L UD 10 10
~ judge: Art Lurie 45-47 | judge: Harold Buck 45-47 | judge: John Magnafini 44-46 ~

1976-06-15 200 Jose Roman 198 46-15-2
Nassau Coliseum, Uniondale, New York, United States W TKO 10 10
1976-05-13 200 Angelo Allegue 240 7-2-0
Exposition Building, Portland, Oregon, United States W TKO 2
Allegue alleged to have had 118 fights under 6 or 7 assumed names in New York and Maine.....so anybody's guess to his real identity....potentially the correct Allegue....

1976-04-14 Oliver Philipps 1-0-0
Silver Slipper, Las Vegas, Nevada, United States W KO 5 6
1976-01-24 201 Abdul Khan 200 0-1-1
Caesars Palace, Las Vegas, Nevada, United States W PTS 4 4
1976-01-07 Joe Tiger Harris 4-9-1
Silver Slipper, Las Vegas, Nevada, United States W KO 3
1975-05-16 John L Johnson 11-9-0
Convention Center, Las Vegas, Nevada, United States W KO 4 4
1975-03-24 205 Tommy Sheehan 10-15-1
Richfield Coliseum, Richfield, Ohio, United States W TKO 2
1975-01-30 198 Tonga Kid 5-1-0
Olympic Auditorium, Los Angeles, California, United States W KO 1
1975-01-25 202 Chico Valdez 182½
Auditorium, Richmond, California, United States W KO 1 8
1974-12-19 203 Lee Estes 245 13-25-4
Olympic Auditorium, Los Angeles, California, United States W TKO 1 5
1974-10-24 199 Jody Ballard 202 10-0-0
Olympic Auditorium, Los Angeles, California, United States W TKO 3 6
1974-07-23 200 Charlie Brooks 187 6-12-7
Coliseum, Oakland, California,

raylawpc · Post by **raylawpc** » 30 Oct 2009, 17:46

Randyman wrote:
raylawpc wrote:
Randyman wrote:A micro minor blip on the radar, I know, but it was 33 years ago today that I fought my second and last fight at the old Aladdin Hotel in Las Vegas on the undercard of Mike Quarry vs Tom Bethea. Time flies when you're having fun. Just a personal reflection.

Randy
Duane Bobick fought on that card too, didn't he Randy?
Yes, Tom, he did. I had to look at his record to see who he fought that day. He won a 10 round decision against Fred Houpe. I was introduced to Duane that day by Mel and spoke with him briefly but to be honest I have no memory of him fighting on the card that day. Up until recently I always thought that Quarry and Bethea and my fight with Eduardo Barba were the only fights on the card. Maybe I got hit harder than I thought.

Randy

Glad to know I haven't completely lost my mind when it comes to boxing. As I recall, both Bobick and Houpe were undefeated going into that fight. I think that's why I remembered it.

raylawpc · Post by **raylawpc** » 30 Oct 2009, 17:48

Rick Farris wrote:
raylawpc wrote:
Randyman wrote:A micro minor blip on the radar, I know, but it was 33 years ago today that I fought my second and last fight at the old Aladdin Hotel in Las Vegas on the undercard of Mike Quarry vs Tom Bethea. Time flies when you're having fun. Just a personal reflection.

Randy
Duane Bobick fought on that card too, didn't he Randy?

Tom . . . Just checking Boxec I see that Bobick fought Fred Houpe that night.
Houpe was managed by Redd Foxx and fought under the name of "Young Sanford".
Hey Randy, do you remember seeing Redd Foxx that night?

-Rick Farris

Yes, I recall that. I remember wondering at the time what Redd Foxx's qualifications were to be a boxing manager. Houpe could have done worse, I suppose. After all, he might have signed on with Angelo Dundee.

raylawpc · Post by **raylawpc** » 30 Oct 2009, 18:05

Randyman wrote:
Rick Farris wrote:

Tom . . . Just checking Boxec I see that Bobick fought Fred Houpe that night.
Houpe was managed by Redd Foxx and fought under the name of "Young Sanford".
Hey Randy, do you remember seeing Redd Foxx that night?

-Rick Farris
Rick, I don't remember seeing or meeting Redd Foxx. If I did it's become a forgotten memory. He may have been there but I have no memory of him. I went to a taping of "Sanford and Son" a few years earlier and it was memorable so I think I would remember him. Memory is a funny thing isn't it? I remember "Young Sanford, I just didn't realize he was Fred Houpe.

Randy

I just pulled up some press accounts of the fight on newspaperarchives.com. Foxx was no longer handling Houpe when Houpe fought Bobick, and so Foxx probably wasn't there at night. The fight was nationally televised, which is probably why I remembered it being on the same card as Quarry-Bethea.

kikibalt · Post by **kikibalt** » 30 Oct 2009, 18:58

Fred Houpe was on my 1974 Los Angeles National Golden Gloves team, the national were held in Denver, Co. that year....

kikibalt · Post by **kikibalt** » 30 Oct 2009, 19:11

Los Angeles 1974 National Golden Gloves Team

To my right is Fred Houpe

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