Classic American West Coast Boxing

dagosd2000
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Re: Classic American West Coast Boxing

Post by dagosd2000 »

Randy....I know what you mean about pneumonia, I had it when I was 32 years old, was laid up for a month, word to the wise, don't think too much, you can go nuts thinking too much.... :witzend:[/quote]

Frank
You sound like a man who's got it bad.Can't shake it lose. Thinking too much. I understand what you're saying.I've got it too.Started when I was a kid. Cursed from the get go.The panic went away for a long time(won't get into that reason here),but around 25 years ago it came back. Hasn't gone away. Some people won't understand that. They're the lucky ones. I get it early in the morning. You want to sleep in,but you're thinking too much . Every way you go, it's the worst case scenario. Sometimes I ball up into the fetal position. Feel paralyzed,but getting up is the best thing. Put one foot in front of the other and it gets better. Only thing is, you have to wake up early in the morning again.

I'll tell you something that worked with me. Hormone shots. All that seratonin uptake stuff the shrink gave me wore off. One day I read an article in Time magazine about how mens' testosterone levels drop with age. Similar to what women go through with menapause.Some doctors have been prescribing testosterone for older men.This is what that article was about. Take it too the bank.It worked immediately for me. The depression went away like that. The thing is I didn't go through a doc.Read up on it and then went to TJ to the drug store. For ten years the nightmare went away. Haven't taken the shots though in a couple of years. Thinking of the side effects. But now that the bad thoughts are coming back,I'm thinking side effects are a better trade off than going nuts.
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Re: Classic American West Coast Boxing

Post by kikibalt »

Is this the end of Roy Jones?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nQst-lOyvOc
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Re: Classic American West Coast Boxing

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dagosd2000 wrote:Randy....I know what you mean about pneumonia, I had it when I was 32 years old, was laid up for a month, word to the wise, don't think too much, you can go nuts thinking too much.... :witzend:

Frank
You sound like a man who's got it bad.Can't shake it lose. Thinking too much. I understand what you're saying.I've got it too.Started when I was a kid. Cursed from the get go.The panic went away for a long time(won't get into that reason here),but around 25 years ago it came back. Hasn't gone away. Some people won't understand that. They're the lucky ones. I get it early in the morning. You want to sleep in,but you're thinking too much . Every way you go, it's the worst case scenario. Sometimes I ball up into the fetal position. Feel paralyzed,but getting up is the best thing. Put one foot in front of the other and it gets better. Only thing is, you have to wake up early in the morning again.

I'll tell you something that worked with me. Hormone shots. All that seratonin uptake stuff the shrink gave me wore off. One day I read an article in Time magazine about how mens' testosterone levels drop with age. Similar to what women go through with menapause.Some doctors have been prescribing testosterone for older men.This is what that article was about. Take it too the bank.It worked immediately for me. The depression went away like that. The thing is I didn't go through a doc.Read up on it and then went to TJ to the drug store. For ten years the nightmare went away. Haven't taken the shots though in a couple of years. Thinking of the side effects. But now that the bad thoughts are coming back,I'm thinking side effects are a better trade off than going nuts.
Depression? no Roger, I never been depress, why?, because I don't let things bother me, never seen a shrink, closes to that was an old man that I used to work with who in the late '50 gave me some abvice, he seen that something was bothering me.
"Something bothering you son?" he said
"Yeah, I have a problem" I said
"Can the problem be fix?"
"Yes"
"So what are you worrying about it than?, fix it"

Than he gave me some abvice that I have taken to heart.

"Son, if you have a problem, be it money, woman, kids or any kind of problems, only two things can happen, either the problem can be fix or it can't, if it can be fix, why worry?, and if it can't be fix, why worry?, best to move on with your life and leave that problem behind"
And that how I have lived my life ever since, I don't worry about anything, which some times drives Connie nuts. I have cancer, I don't worry about it, worrying about is not going to cure it, so unless I'm feeling sick, I sleep like a baby..... :TU:
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Re: Classic American West Coast Boxing

Post by dagosd2000 »

kikibalt wrote:
dagosd2000 wrote:Randy....I know what you mean about pneumonia, I had it when I was 32 years old, was laid up for a month, word to the wise, don't think too much, you can go nuts thinking too much.... :witzend:

Frank
You sound like a man who's got it bad.Can't shake it lose. Thinking too much. I understand what you're saying.I've got it too.Started when I was a kid. Cursed from the get go.The panic went away for a long time(won't get into that reason here),but around 25 years ago it came back. Hasn't gone away. Some people won't understand that. They're the lucky ones. I get it early in the morning. You want to sleep in,but you're thinking too much . Every way you go, it's the worst case scenario. Sometimes I ball up into the fetal position. Feel paralyzed,but getting up is the best thing. Put one foot in front of the other and it gets better. Only thing is, you have to wake up early in the morning again.

I'll tell you something that worked with me. Hormone shots. All that seratonin uptake stuff the shrink gave me wore off. One day I read an article in Time magazine about how mens' testosterone levels drop with age. Similar to what women go through with menapause.Some doctors have been prescribing testosterone for older men.This is what that article was about. Take it too the bank.It worked immediately for me. The depression went away like that. The thing is I didn't go through a doc.Read up on it and then went to TJ to the drug store. For ten years the nightmare went away. Haven't taken the shots though in a couple of years. Thinking of the side effects. But now that the bad thoughts are coming back,I'm thinking side effects are a better trade off than going nuts.
Depression? no Roger, I never been depress, why?, because I don't let things bother me, never seen a shrink, closes to that was an old man that I used to work with who in the late '50 gave me some abvice, he seen that something was bothering me.
"Something bothering you son?" he said
"Yeah, I have a problem" I said
"Can the problem be fix?"
"Yes"
"So what are you worrying about it than?, fix it"

Than he gave me some abvice that I have taken to heart.

"Son, if you have a problem, be it money, woman, kids or any kind of problems, only two things can happen, either the problem can be fix or it can't, if it can be fix, why worry?, and if it can't be fix, why worry?, best to move on with your life and leave that problem behind"
And that how I have lived my life ever since, I don't worry about anything, which some times drives Connie nuts. I have cancer, I don't worry about it, worrying about is not going to cure it, so unless I'm feeling sick, I sleep like a baby..... :TU:
Frank
You and my wife and Amanda and her mother(my daughter)have the same attitude. I wish it would work with me. It is my greatest wish. The depression isn't as bad as it used to be,but it comes around now and then. Like it's dormant inside of me. I've used my wife as an example of how to live everyday. She is the strong one. Many of the kids that I have in my classes are like her.They always seem happy. They may not be college material and the school comes down on them for not "getting it",but I've learned from them that happiness is the greatest lesson to learn from life. I still must learn that lesson.Thanks. Rog :TU:
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Re: Classic American West Coast Boxing

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I hope that you don't think that I was trying to make lite of depression, I wasn't, depression has hit hard to some family members. My late sister Mary Ellen was so depress that she took her own life in 2004, may she RIP.... :witzend:
Last edited by kikibalt on 02 Dec 2009, 13:32, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Classic American West Coast Boxing

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kikibalt wrote:I hope that you don't think that I was trying to make light of depression, I wasn't, depression has hit hard to some family members. My late sister Mary Ellen was so depress that she took her own life in 2004, may she RIP.... :witzend:
Frank
I've been to a few shrinks in my lifetime. They're all pretty nice people. Sometimes I think they need therapy. Sometimes I think they don't relate very well. The best thing they do is let you get it off your chest. Then they prescribe something. When I first went for a visit,I thought that if you told them how you felt that they would have the "magic words" to get you better.There are no "magic words". The medicine helps a lot. It will wear off and then they give you something else.

Lately though the best thing for me is talking to someone. Not necessarily about my condition,but about,let's say, boxing.When I tell people about my condition they are often surprised. My personality masks my feelings pretty well. Ironically there are many people who come to me to get "a lift."I'm perceived as "strong" and having good insights.If I can make someone laugh,I've also helped myself.
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Re: Classic American West Coast Boxing

Post by Rick Farris »

kikibalt wrote:
dagosd2000 wrote:Randy....I know what you mean about pneumonia, I had it when I was 32 years old, was laid up for a month, word to the wise, don't think too much, you can go nuts thinking too much.... :witzend:

Frank
You sound like a man who's got it bad.Can't shake it lose. Thinking too much. I understand what you're saying.I've got it too.Started when I was a kid. Cursed from the get go.The panic went away for a long time(won't get into that reason here),but around 25 years ago it came back. Hasn't gone away. Some people won't understand that. They're the lucky ones. I get it early in the morning. You want to sleep in,but you're thinking too much . Every way you go, it's the worst case scenario. Sometimes I ball up into the fetal position. Feel paralyzed,but getting up is the best thing. Put one foot in front of the other and it gets better. Only thing is, you have to wake up early in the morning again.

I'll tell you something that worked with me. Hormone shots. All that seratonin uptake stuff the shrink gave me wore off. One day I read an article in Time magazine about how mens' testosterone levels drop with age. Similar to what women go through with menapause.Some doctors have been prescribing testosterone for older men.This is what that article was about. Take it too the bank.It worked immediately for me. The depression went away like that. The thing is I didn't go through a doc.Read up on it and then went to TJ to the drug store. For ten years the nightmare went away. Haven't taken the shots though in a couple of years. Thinking of the side effects. But now that the bad thoughts are coming back,I'm thinking side effects are a better trade off than going nuts.
Depression? no Roger, I never been depress, why?, because I don't let things bother me, never seen a shrink, closes to that was an old man that I used to work with who in the late '50 gave me some abvice, he seen that something was bothering me.
"Something bothering you son?" he said
"Yeah, I have a problem" I said
"Can the problem be fix?"
"Yes"
"So what are you worrying about it than?, fix it"

Than he gave me some abvice that I have taken to heart.

"Son, if you have a problem, be it money, woman, kids or any kind of problems, only two things can happen, either the problem can be fix or it can't, if it can be fix, why worry?, and if it can't be fix, why worry?, best to move on with your life and leave that problem behind"
And that how I have lived my life ever since, I don't worry about anything, which some times drives Connie nuts. I have cancer, I don't worry about it, worrying about is not going to cure it, so unless I'm feeling sick, I sleep like a baby..... :TU:

Frank . . . Your friend gave you some great advice. Like Roger, I suffer from this depression and tried an anti-depressent for awhile, did not like the side effects. Today, I have good days and bad. It's really difficult, I deal with it as best I can. I wish things were as easy as "choice". Reading Roger's post really hit home.
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Re: Classic American West Coast Boxing

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Rick Farris wrote:
kikibalt wrote:
dagosd2000 wrote:Randy....I know what you mean about pneumonia, I had it when I was 32 years old, was laid up for a month, word to the wise, don't think too much, you can go nuts thinking too much.... :witzend:

Frank
You sound like a man who's got it bad.Can't shake it lose. Thinking too much. I understand what you're saying.I've got it too.Started when I was a kid. Cursed from the get go.The panic went away for a long time(won't get into that reason here),but around 25 years ago it came back. Hasn't gone away. Some people won't understand that. They're the lucky ones. I get it early in the morning. You want to sleep in,but you're thinking too much . Every way you go, it's the worst case scenario. Sometimes I ball up into the fetal position. Feel paralyzed,but getting up is the best thing. Put one foot in front of the other and it gets better. Only thing is, you have to wake up early in the morning again.

I'll tell you something that worked with me. Hormone shots. All that seratonin uptake stuff the shrink gave me wore off. One day I read an article in Time magazine about how mens' testosterone levels drop with age. Similar to what women go through with menapause.Some doctors have been prescribing testosterone for older men.This is what that article was about. Take it too the bank.It worked immediately for me. The depression went away like that. The thing is I didn't go through a doc.Read up on it and then went to TJ to the drug store. For ten years the nightmare went away. Haven't taken the shots though in a couple of years. Thinking of the side effects. But now that the bad thoughts are coming back,I'm thinking side effects are a better trade off than going nuts.
Depression? no Roger, I never been depress, why?, because I don't let things bother me, never seen a shrink, closes to that was an old man that I used to work with who in the late '50 gave me some abvice, he seen that something was bothering me.
"Something bothering you son?" he said
"Yeah, I have a problem" I said
"Can the problem be fix?"
"Yes"
"So what are you worrying about it than?, fix it"

Than he gave me some abvice that I have taken to heart.

"Son, if you have a problem, be it money, woman, kids or any kind of problems, only two things can happen, either the problem can be fix or it can't, if it can be fix, why worry?, and if it can't be fix, why worry?, best to move on with your life and leave that problem behind"
And that how I have lived my life ever since, I don't worry about anything, which some times drives Connie nuts. I have cancer, I don't worry about it, worrying about is not going to cure it, so unless I'm feeling sick, I sleep like a baby..... :TU:

Frank . . . Your friend gave you some great advice. Like Roger, I suffer from this depression and tried an anti-depressent for awhile, did not like the side effects. Today, I have good days and bad. It's really difficult, I deal with it as best I can. I wish things were as easy as "choice". Reading Roger's post really hit home.
Yes, Rick, Manuel Castro gave me some good advice, some 50 years ago that has help me in life, I try to get Connie not to worry, she worrys about Linda and the boys, but like I tell her "worrying is not going take care of anything, all its going to do is make you sick. not worrying doesn't mean that you don't care about whats going on with their lifes, you do, but don't get sick over it"
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Re: Classic American West Coast Boxing

Post by Expug »

Rog, and Rick.
Im sorry to hear about the battles that you guys have with depression.
Its a very serious thing. If it was something that could simply be toughed out, you guys would beat it easy.
Unfortunately, its not. I have family members who have really struggled with it. Its terrible.
You guys are in my prayers.
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Re: Classic American West Coast Boxing

Post by Rick Farris »

Expug wrote:Rog, and Rick.
Im sorry to hear about the battles that you guys have with depression.
Its a very serious thing. If it was something that could simply be toughed out, you guys would beat it easy.
Unfortunately, its not. I have family members who have really struggled with it. Its terrible.
You guys are in my prayers.

Thanks, Brian. Hope all is going well for you in Chicago.
Frank mentioned Connie worrying about her children. I think mothers always worry about their kids.
The couple times I have met Connie it's obvious she is really a good person. The man she married and the kids she's raised validate that.


-Rick
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Re: Classic American West Coast Boxing

Post by Expug »

You're right Rick.
And all Mothers do worry thats for sure.Its part of their DNA I guess.
Having a son who is a fighter must not be real easy on the nerves either.
My Mother hated it big time.

Alls going ok in Chicago. But, I have an appointment Friday morning with a knee specialist. It hasnt been feeling good at all since that horse threw me and then fell on it last August.
Maybe a fracture , a meniscus tear, I dont know but the pain is getting worse and something needs tending to.
I held off as long as I could but my wife is getting pissed that Ive been trying to ignore it. But, four months is a little long to blow it off. Walkings become an adventure.
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Re: Classic American West Coast Boxing

Post by kikibalt »

Expug wrote:You're right Rick.
And all Mothers do worry thats for sure.Its part of their DNA I guess.
Having a son who is a fighter must not be real easy on the nerves either.
My Mother hated it big time.

Alls going ok in Chicago. But, I have an appointment Friday morning with a knee specialist. It hasnt been feeling good at all since that horse threw me and then fell on it last August.
Maybe a fracture , a meniscus tear, I dont know but the pain is getting worse and something needs tending to.
I held off as long as I could but my wife is getting pissed that Ive been trying to ignore it. But, four months is a little long to blow it off. Walkings become an adventure.
Brian...Hope everything comes out alright for you.... :TU:
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Re: Classic American West Coast Boxing

Post by dagosd2000 »

Thanks fellas' for your concerns. Talking to you guys on the thread is a real treat. Down to earth conversations with real decent fellas'.Some of the last of the "man's man" ilk.As good a friends as anyone can have. :TU:

Brian
Hope your knee comes out all right. I have no cartilage in my right one. Then I tore the achilles on the same side. Torn rotater cuff and hip diplacia to top things off. Pecker still works. When that gives out,they can take me out to the back of the barn and shoot me. :lol:
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Re: Classic American West Coast Boxing

Post by Expug »

Frank and Rog, thanks my friends.

Rog, as long as the plumbing is working, the house will be ok. :wink:
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Re: Classic American West Coast Boxing

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Image

Jake LaMotta:
"You Never Got Me Down, Ray..."

February 14 1951

Jake LaMotta vs Sugar Ray Robinson

One of THE Iconic Images in Sport. The Great Jake LaMotta battering and clinging to the ropes rufused to go down. The image is just after the Referee has stopped the fight in the fourteenth round.
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Re: Classic American West Coast Boxing

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BEGINNING MY DAY

"Roger.How is your English Learning Class going?"asked Olga the teacher across the hall from my room.
"It's getting better."
"I'm having my hands full."
I taught U.S.History. Olga was an English teacher.
"I've adjusted,"I told her."In a way they've taught me something."
"Well I can't get the administration to help me out with them. These kids are driving me crazy."
"The administration won't help you. The counselors won't either. It would be too many kids to move out. We're on our own with them."
Olga would eat her lunch in my room. She'd tell me about her own kids having a bad time in school. She liked it when I'd make her laugh.
"Are you going to be in your room at lunch time?"she asked.
"Sure. I'll show you my latest painting."
"I'm looking forward to seeing it."
"Roger.You know your a real man. They aren't many around any more,"she said smiling looking at the ground.
Olga would say that to me all the time. I didn't know if she was kidding.
"John and Ron will be there too."
"I don't care.I like to be with you."

I said good by to Olga and went to my classroom. I read an email from the school psychologist.
"Dear Roger,"it said."Thanks so much about bringing to my attention the problem that girl was having in your classroom with those boys. You did the right thing by sending her to the counseling center. After our parent conference,her mother said how much she appreciated that you protected her daughter. The talk you had with those boys seemed to have worked. They apologized on their own to her. Thanks again,Margaret."

I was waiting for the bell to ring to begin the 1st period. My 1st period was a prep period. I didn't have a class. Rosemary poked her head inside. She was the Special Education Teacher.
"Roger.Now I have you down for the Philippino lunch tomorrow in the lounge. Remember ,the treat is on me. I made my special lumpias just for you. The recipe was handed down to me from my Mom."
"I'll be there."
"Roger. You're the only one I can have a conversation with. You're strong. You say the things I feel,but I'm afraid to say them."
"It's better to say what you feel than to put on a different hat with people."
"You're so right Roger."
Rosemary was shaking a little.
"I have a love for you Roger."
"I have a love for you too,"I said.

I heard the bell ring. John and Ron were walking towards their classrooms. They stopped outside my door.
"Uncle Rog,"yelled John."We'll be by at lunchtime."
"We need to get some wisdom from our leader,"said Ron.
"I'll be here,"I said.
"Rog.Didn't you meet Charles Manson once?"asked Ron.
"Yes.I knew him as Charlie Moon."
"You'll have to tell me about that."
"Rog is like a history book,"said John.
"He's like Forrest Gump in a way.You've seen a lot of things. You have some good stories,"said Ron.
With that they walked to their classrooms.

I had an hour to kill before my first class with the English Learners. Those kids were always happy. I thought why would they be a problem.Alone in my classroom with the lights turned off and my radio playing classical music so I could barely hear it,I was looking forward to seeing those kids. I felt I had a lot to learn still.
Last edited by dagosd2000 on 03 Dec 2009, 06:16, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Classic American West Coast Boxing

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Great writing, Rog.
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Re: Classic American West Coast Boxing

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kikibalt wrote:Great writing, Rog.
Thanks Frank.I changed one line. Instead of seeing Jose Napoles fight,I put in that I once met Charles Manson. I'll write about that tomorrow.
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Re: Classic American West Coast Boxing

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Bob Arum seeks Manny Pacquiao's OK on Floyd Mayweather Jr. fight

The promoter travels to Manila to talk with the Filipino boxer and advisors on a super-bout that would be on HBO pay-per-view.

Image

Negotiations continue in an attempt to make a fight between Manny Pacquiao, left, and Floyd Mayweather Jr. a reality. (Bullit Marquez / Associated Press; Ethan Miller / Getty Images)

By Lance Pugmire

December 3, 2009

Promoter Bob Arum arrived in the Philippines and expected to start face-to-face talks Wednesday with Manny Pacquiao to try to reach terms for a mega-fight against Floyd Mayweather Jr.

Despite reports Tuesday that Mayweather agreed to terms and that a Pacquiao fight was virtually set, Pacquiao trainer Freddie Roach cautioned Wednesday that that idea was premature because the Filipino star hadn't reviewed any contract terms.

Roach, in a telephone conversation from England, said, "Manny believes he should get a 60-40 [purse] split too, because he did better in pay-per-view than Mayweather this year. Manny's the bigger draw."

Roach is referring to the 1.25 million pay-per-view buys for Pacquiao's 12th-round technical knockout of Miguel Cotto on Nov. 14, compared to the 1 million buys for Mayweather's fight against Juan Manuel Marquez in September. Yet Mayweather's December 2007 bout against Ricky Hatton generated more pay-per-view sales than Pacquiao-Hatton in May.

"I'm obviously over here to talk to Manny," Arum said from the Philippines. "At this point, I've got to find out what my fighter wants to do."

By being there, Arum may avoid the drawn-out theatrics that occurred when Pacquiao handlers complicated the negotiations before his Hatton fight. Arum and Roach were kept at arm's length, and several Arum proposals and Hatton offers were met with delayed counterproposals that nearly led Hatton to walk.

Alone, Arum boarded a flight to Manila, where he was to meet with Pacquiao and his business advisors.

"Bob will sit there and walk everybody through it, so Manny has a full grasp of the situation," Arum's lead matchmaker, Bruce Trampler, said. "He has to respect the culture. Everybody will have eaten and had their libations, and then Bob will start talking turkey."

Roach said his agent, Nick Khan, told him "Arum had a [Mayweather] deal together" when he left the U.S.

This could be a game of leverage too. Mayweather's camp may want to appear more receptive to a deal, casting Pacquiao as the one holding up the welterweight super-bout for more money.

Arum revealed only that he has negotiated with Mayweather's designated promoter, Richard Schaefer. Schaefer declined to comment.

Arum and Roach both said they are uncertain whether a Pacquiao-Mayweather bout has to be fought by March 13 because of Pacquiao's planned run for a congressional seat in the Philippines in May. HBO, which will televise the bout on pay-per-view if it occurs, instructed promoters to make the fight on whatever date is possible.

Roach prefers a Pacquiao-Mayweather bout on May 1.

"March 13 is too fast a turnaround," Roach said. "Manny has a broken [right] eardrum" suffered in the Cotto fight. "I'd like to have more time. I hope the fight happens, yes, but I want us to be in the best possible shape."

Sports book directors in Las Vegas are already posting odds on the unsigned fight. Jay Kornegay of the Las Vegas Hilton has opened the fight as a pick-'em after two other books split by making Mayweather or Pacquiao nearly 2-1 favorites.

"I love Pacquiao, but people forget how good Mayweather is: He never gets touched and rarely looks like he breaks a sweat," Kornegay said. A Pacquiao-Mayweather fight "is obviously a huge event, and doing it right before [college basketball's] March Madness would be a great time."

[email protected]
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Re: Classic American West Coast Boxing

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Mike LeBell

Wrestling promoter

Mike LeBell, 79, a longtime and highly successful promoter of wrestling at the Olympic Auditorium, died Nov. 24 at his Los Angeles home. He had cancer, said Jeff Walton, a former wrestling publicist.

In 1971, LeBell became one of the first North American wrestling promoters to use closed-circuit television to broadcast sold-out matches when he aired a live faceoff at the Olympic between Don Carson and John Tolos at two downtown theaters.

"These people live and die wrestling," LeBell told The Times after his initial closed-circuit broadcast sold out. "If we told them there was going to be wrestling at 4 o'clock in the morning, they'd be here."

From the mid-1960s until 1982, LeBell promoted wrestling cards at the Olympic, his showcase arena. He also staged wrestling matches at other Southern California venues.

His mother, Aileen Eaton, was the boxing promoter at the Olympic from 1942 to 1980. His stepfather, Carl Eaton, was also a major boxing promoter. His brother, Gene, wrestled and is a Hollywood stuntman.

A Los Angeles native, LeBell was born in 1930, one of two sons of Maurice LeBell, an osteopath who died in 1941 after a swimming accident.

After graduating from USC, Mike LeBell became the box office manager and treasurer for his mother at the Olympic.

Her weekly boxing shows grossed close to $1 million a year in the late 1960s, and her wrestling shows, directed by LeBell, did "even better," Sports Illustrated reported in 1967.
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Re: Classic American West Coast Boxing

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dagosd2000 wrote:
kikibalt wrote:Great writing, Rog.
Thanks Frank.I changed one line. Instead of seeing Jose Napoles fight,I put in that I once met Charles Manson. I'll write about that tomorrow.
I see you couldn't sleep..... :witzend:
dagosd2000
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Re: Classic American West Coast Boxing

Post by dagosd2000 »

kikibalt wrote:
dagosd2000 wrote:
kikibalt wrote:Great writing, Rog.
Thanks Frank.I changed one line. Instead of seeing Jose Napoles fight,I put in that I once met Charles Manson. I'll write about that tomorrow.
I see you couldn't sleep..... :witzend:
Frank
That's why I like you. You see things pretty clear. Can't put much by you. And oh yes,I couldn't sleep :witzend:
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Re: Classic American West Coast Boxing

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Photograph by the Los Angeles Times

The body of Jack “the Enforcer” Whalen lies on the floor on Rondelli’s restaurant.

TALES FROM THE GANGSTER SQUAD

Death of 'the Enforcer'

* Jack Whalen follows the advice of his friend on the police force and calls on Mickey Cohen and his associates at a Ventura Boulevard restaurant . . . unarmed.

October 31, 2008

By Paul Lieberman

The dispute had its roots in Nov. 21, 1959, vice raids on the homes of five phone clerks who took bets for Al Levitt, a Woodland Hills bookie. With Levitt's records gone -- the cops had them -- a pair of bettors began clamoring for $390 they said they were due.

One of them was Sam Lo Cigno, who described himself as an unemployed bartender and asphalt salesman but managed to drive a new Cadillac. "I don't believe anyone can win on horses," Lo Cigno said, "but I was lucky."

He had grown up in Cleveland while Mickey was there, and after Mickey moved west to serve as muscle for Bugsy Siegel, Lo Cigno came too. But with only one jail term on his sheet, five days for speeding, he seemed little more than "a flunky and errand boy for Mickey," as a probation officer put it.

Now, the errand boy and his friend George Piscitelle were fixing to heist $390 from the just-raided Levitt until the bookie realized, no -- they'd lost their bets. On Dec. 2, he told them, "I am through with this. I am having J.O. call you," and they understood exactly: J.O. meant Jack O'Hara, a.k.a. Jack "the Enforcer" Whalen.

In minutes, Piscitelle said, the phone rang in his apartment and it was the "head-buster," declaring, "You Dago bastards" had better come up with what was owed.

Lo Cigno and his pals were getting ready for a night out, starting with supper at Rondelli's on Ventura Boulevard. The pint-sized lounge singer Tony Reno was coming, and so was talent manager Joe DeCarlo, who handled Mickey's two favorite strippers, Candy Barr and Beverly Hills.

Lo Cigno liked Rondelli's because they served him pasta without the spicy sauce that inflamed his nervous stomach.

He wore one of his perfectly tailored suits, with a side pocket just the right size for his .38. "It hung in there real nice," he said.

--

Tough as he was, Whalen wasn't about to confront them alone. He'd called his pal on the Gangster Squad, but Sgt. Jerry Wooters had been busted to night duty at the police jail.

So Whalen had his frequent helpmate Rocky Lombardi meet him at a seafood joint on the Strip. "He wanted me to watch his back," Lombardi said. Then they met a second backup, "Big Joe" Herrera, and headed to Sherman Oaks, those two in one car, the Enforcer in his own.

The backups got to Rondelli's shortly before 11:30 p.m. and took positions at opposite ends of its dimly lighted bar. Customers filled all the stools and a row of cocktail tables.

Rocky barely had time to order a drink before Whalen burst through the swinging doors of the kitchen. He'd come in the back from an alley. Now he strode toward the phone booth. "I knew that he wasn't there for pleasure," said a woman at the bar.

You couldn't see the dining area from the bar. They were separated by a planter filled with fake greenery rising nearly to the ceiling -- the sort of stuff that had been a staple of the nursery Mickey Cohen opened when he got out of prison.

--

Mickey had arrived between 8:30 and 9 p.m. in his new, black Caddy, accompanied by his bulldog, Mickey Jr. The dog had his own checkered bib so he could eat in style off a plate at his master's feet.

At a hearing a month before on Rondelli's application for a license to offer live entertainment, Mickey had taken the 5th when asked if he was a hidden owner. This night, he came early to meet with a black singing group seeking his help and with Roger Leonard, who fancied himself a writer-producer. Leonard was at Mickey's table to talk about making "The Mickey Cohen Story."

Sam Lo Cigno took the seat on Mickey's left and Piscitelle took a seat on the other side, where he could see anyone entering the dining room. Last to arrive was Mickey's date, Sandy Hagen, a model, full name Claretta Hashagen. She ordered the veal scallopini.

Mickey was constantly getting up, going to the office to make calls or the men's room to wash his hands. Lo Cigno flitted about too, schmoozing with two women at the bar. He wanted Jo Wyatt and Ona Rae Rogers to join them later at the Cloisters, on the Strip, where Mickey had reserved a table to see comedian Joey Bishop.

The tiny crooner, Tony Reno, kept getting up also, to go to the pay phone, to find his manager, he said. That's who he was trying to reach, he insisted, when an enormous hand lifted him out of the phone booth. He said Jack Whalen told him, "Show me where those bastards are.' "

Whalen prodded Reno into the dining area, but let him go when he saw who was there. Reno hurried back to the bar, where he couldn't see what happened. He only heard the shots. After that, he looked across at Rocky Lombardi, the big man's backup, and gave a hands-up gesture, like "What can you do?"

--

Mickey's first story was that the shots came from a nearby booth and he "didn't see nuthin'." Then he changed that to, OK, they came from his table. But he still didn't see much.

He said Whalen walked up and said, "Good evening, Mr. Cohen," but he didn't have time to respond because the Enforcer put his left hand on Piscitelle's shoulder and said, " 'Have you got something for me?' . . . and Bingo! . . . he hit George a shot" -- a powerful right -- "and George went to the floor."

Whalen turned to Lo Cigno, Mickey said, and "he said, 'You Dago bastard, you're next' or something of that sort. . . . The next thing, I heard the shooting, and that was it."

"I never seen any gun," Mickey said, describing how he ducked "from force of habit," and stayed under the table, down there with the dog, Mickey Jr., and when he finally looked up, the restaurant was empty.

That became Mickey Cohen's story.

Only the women from the bar had not left. Jo Wyatt and Ona Rae Rogers sometimes waitressed on the Strip and knew who Whalen was.

Wyatt hurried to the dining area and found him lying on his right side, next to the pastry table. Whalen was still breathing, but bleeding from his head, so she got napkins and towels and asked her friend to get ice. To one fleeing diner, it looked like she was kneeling in prayer over the body.

Wyatt said she pleaded, "Please call a doctor," and Mickey did -- he phoned his own physician. "Next thing," Mickey said, "I went and washed my hands."

--

Whalen was dead when police arrived at 12:10 a.m. The first bullet had missed. The second got him almost between the eyes.

Chief William H. Parker and Capt. James Hamilton, head of the Gangster Squad, were there within an hour. But the honor of questioning Mickey fell to Thad Brown, the cigar-chomping deputy chief who was familiar with the victim. "He'd been flirting with the undertaker for a long time," Brown said of Whalen.

"So help me God, chief, I didn't shoot him," Mickey said.

"Who did?"

"I don't know."

When the press arrived, Parker revealed that Hamilton's squad had been tipped earlier that Whalen might be going to Rondelli's "to settle a beef." Parker did not say where the tip came from.

--

Jerry Wooters was awakened by the phone at 2 a.m. It was Hamilton, and it was not a friendly call.

"He says, 'Where can we pick up' -- see, now suddenly he knows I'm close to Whalen. He says, 'Where can I pick up Mrs. -- Whalen's wife?' I said, 'Captain, you're talking to a uniformed sergeant. . . . You got all those high-powered detectives down there. Let them find out.' So he says, 'Listen . . . you think you're so smart. And Jesus, he went on with stuff I never heard about. And I said, 'Listen, I assume you're recording this. And I have no desire to talk any further. I'm on overtime if you pull me down.'

" 'God damn it, blah, blah, blah.'

"So I didn't tell him anything."

Only later did Wooters learn that an unmarked Intelligence car had gone to Rondelli's as a result of his tip the night before. But the two squad members simply parked on Ventura Boulevard. They never went in. They hadn't realized anything was amiss until the other police cars pulled up.

So that's what his years as the secret buddy of Jack Whalen had come to -- him stuck in the jail, Whalen dead on the floor and two cops "sitting outside that goddamned place when the shots were fired."

--

When the sun came up in the morning, one of the swarm of officers still at the scene searched through a trash can next door and discovered a plastic bag with three .38s in it.

That was the moment another member of the Gangster Squad had been anticipating for a decade.

Jack O'Mara got to Rondelli's while the body still lay there. When he heard what was in the trash, he told Hamilton, "Cap', they could be the guns I took."

Hamilton remembered well how O'Mara had sneaked seven guns out of Mickey's house ages ago and etched initials under their butt plates in hopes of one day proving the man was a killer. The Gangster Squad had been trying to make that case, but failing, since 1946.

On Dec. 8, 1959, six days after the shooting, Lo Cigno came out of hiding to surrender at LAPD headquarters, saying he was turning himself in at Mickey's urging.

LoCigno announced: "Well, I'm the man that shot Jack O'Hara in self-defense."
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Re: Classic American West Coast Boxing

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Rick Farris
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Re: Classic American West Coast Boxing

Post by Rick Farris »

Expug wrote:You're right Rick.
And all Mothers do worry thats for sure.Its part of their DNA I guess.
Having a son who is a fighter must not be real easy on the nerves either.
My Mother hated it big time.

Alls going ok in Chicago. But, I have an appointment Friday morning with a knee specialist. It hasnt been feeling good at all since that horse threw me and then fell on it last August.
Maybe a fracture , a meniscus tear, I dont know but the pain is getting worse and something needs tending to.
I held off as long as I could but my wife is getting pissed that Ive been trying to ignore it. But, four months is a little long to blow it off. Walkings become an adventure.
Bad Knees & Stable Horses . . .

Brian . . . Don't wait to take care of that. I wish you the best treatment and recovery and I'm glad you are ready to see a doctor.
We need our wheels, and especially so a man of your profession and passion.
My friend Bob Seagren, the former Olympic pole vaulter, hurt his knee when tossed from a horse in summer of 1971.
This was just one year prior to the 1972 Games in Munich. We were riding horses with our wives.
Bob's wife, Kam, had been a competitive equestrian since childhood and we all were horseback riding on some property I had bought in Tehachappi.
Seagren was one of the greatest all-round ahthletes of the era but he didn't know anything about horses.
As we headed back to the stable (these were stable horses from a nearby ranch) Bob starts to gallop his horse, and then let him run.
Bob thought he was controlling the horse, but in reality, the horse was running away with him, anxious to get back the horse ran all out back to the barn.
When they reached the gate to the property, the horse suddenly made a left turn into the gate, Seagren's body flew off the horse and rolled several times in a cloud of dust.
When the dust settled Seagren was not only hurt, but more embarrassed.
As we rode up on him he pulled himself up and made a feeble smile, revealing dirt on his teeth.
A few of the wrangler's sitting on the porch found the whole thing amusing. "Son, you gotta turn with the horse!"
Of course, we were all laughing. Bob limped around for a week then went to a great sports surgeon who operated on his knee.
It was after he recovered and began to train again for the U.S. Olympic trials that I, for the first time ever, was able to out run Bob when we did roadwork together.
Talk about a competitor, Bob was so frustrated having me leave him in the dust, he pushed himself. When we'd hit a hill, I'd hear his knee snapping as he ran up it.
In short time, Seagren was passing me by again on the road and four months later, he shattered the World record in the pole vault for the tenth time.
The record of 18'1", was broken by an amazing five inches to 18'6".
Bob was only 25, at the time, but the point is he was able to recover fully from the knee injury.
A year after the Olympics, he was the first athlete to win ABC's "Superstars" in 1973.
You always hear the horror stories, but just get it looked at and do what you must. Take care, Pug!


-Rick
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