BoxRec

Halloway, Diaz, Mendez, Alvarez and aldo might not be enough, but it wouldn't take a whole lot more. I'd have bj over both of them.

I think McG/Halloway II and McG/Aldo II would both look pretty different from the original matches.

McGregor is an excellent fighter but I refuse to put him in the ATG category when he hasn't defended a single belt a single time, he's 1-1 (with a very decisive loss) against Nate Diaz, and he's now on a hiatus of 7 months and counting so he can pursue a sideshow fight in a different sport.

SaadOffTheDeck wrote:Halloway, Diaz, Mendez, Alvarez and aldo might not be enough, but it wouldn't take a whole lot more. I'd have bj over both of them.

Edgar x2
Mendez x2
Faber
Swanson
Plus he successfully defended for 5+ years.

Mendez was winning the rounds against McGregor before he got stopped. Diaz subbed him. Plus he has not defended once. I don't see how anyone could rank him above Aldo... or even in the top 10 for that matter. His stand up is great. But Mini Mendez wrestle fucked him to death until Chad was so spent he could barely walk. And it took Diaz no time time at all to secure a choke once it hit the mat. Like I stated, his stand up is outstanding, but he is far from a complete, well rounded fighter. And the dude needs to defend against some #1 contenders before he even gets thrown into the all time discussion.

McGregor had the better wins, though Edgar twice is excellent. Chad took Aldo to hell too. Losing a round there isn't shameful.

Defending the belt isn't a big criteria for me. I have to admit, after being a big Aldo fan from before he even was in the UFC, his handling of the McGregor defeat soured me.

It's not that defending the belt is inherently valuable, but defending the belt generally entails fighting a variety of top contenders over a period of years. McGregor hasn't done that. Hell, a few years ago Anthony Pettis looked like he was gonna be an ATG. It didn't really pan out and now he's lost 3 of his last 4 fights. If McGregor were to defend his LW belt regularly like any other champ, he may very well lose badly to Ferguson or Barboza or Khabib. Until he fights more, we just don't know.

It's not like Aldo was particularly active. The loss isn't the end all be all, Edgar might have a better resume than also or McGregor.

Aldo was on top of the FW division for like 5 years. He had a couple injury layoffs but generally fought the standard 2x/year for a champ. McGregor has simply not had that many fights at the top level.

Aldo fought more like once in a year. He definitely doesn't have quite as many top wins, but he isn't far off at all. More I think about Edgar probably rates over them both.

You're exaggerating a bit. The year he won the title (2009) he fought 4 times, after winning the title he fought:

2 times in 2010
2 times in 2011
1 time in 2012
2 times in 2013
2 times in 2014

I'm a huge Edgar fan but if we're rating the ATG little guys of MMA, I'm going:

1. Aldo
2. Edgar
3. Faber

Or if you consider BJ Penn a little guy then maybe fit him below Aldo.

DJ should rate over Faber. If you're counting lightweights as little, you'd need more than bj on the list. I'd rate bj and Frankie both over Aldo.

jujigatame wrote:You're exaggerating a bit. The year he won the title (2009) he fought 4 times, after winning the title he fought:

2 times in 2010
2 times in 2011
1 time in 2012
2 times in 2013
2 times in 2014

I'm a huge Edgar fan but if we're rating the ATG little guys of MMA, I'm going:

1. Aldo
2. Edgar
3. Faber

Or if you consider BJ Penn a little guy then maybe fit him below Aldo.

I would definitely consider BJ a little guy. I think if we are being honest BJ is/was around the size of the top 145 guys which IMO does make his record more impressive. BJ hurt his legacy and status with a combination of laziness and a continued desire to fight guys from WW-LHW/HW which while commendable does mean he probably doesn't have as many top wins at 155 as he should. I rate him where you do though just below Aldo but above the others.

Aldo's inactivity wasn't always down to Aldo either.

If we are talking little guys though Johnson has to be in the conversation now. As much as I struggle to watch his fights sometimes he is brilliant. 10 title defences doesn't happen by fluke.

jujigatame wrote:Hunt is an absolute legend. 43 years old and still KOs a top 10 HW. I would not mind seeing Hunt/JDS II as I think Hunt could potentially avenge that loss, even at his advanced age.

Brunson is really good but I think he'll always be on the outside of the title picture looking in, similar to a (post-comeback) Thales Leites.

I love Hunt but he doesn't have enough left to compete with the top guys anymore. His once indestructible chin has left him, he slow compared to his prime. He still has frightening power and I will always watch him but I don't want to see him against the top 3-5 guys anymore, it's been proven time and time again that he can't hang with those guys anymore.

Impractical Poster wrote:

SaadOffTheDeck wrote:I think McGregor goes over him too. Though that is arguable.

All time?

McGregor has yet to even defend a belt. McGregor may be better than him...possibly. But, he has not been in with nearly enough top guys to be considered in the running for a top p4p spot. It's also hard for me to put him over Aldo in a P4P all time sense when Conor lost to Nate Diaz and then went life or death with him to win a decision that could have went either way.

He's had like 3 top 5 wins.
Aldo, Alvarez & 2 week Mendes. Life and death with Diaz after an embarrassing loss hurts when you consider what top 5 guys normally do to Nate.

Nothing embarrassing about losing a great fight to a very good fighter. Getting slaughtered in 13 seconds is embarrassing.

Anything can happen with those small ass gloves. A KO1 in MMA means less than it does in boxing.

Aldo's strength of schedule is probably only rivaled by GSP.... and he won all of his prime fights, sans the McGregor loss -- and we aren't sure what he's got left, so I'm leaving the Holloway loss out.. for now.

He's beaten Edgar twice and Faber once, his only real "145 or lower" GOAT competition. He even beat Nogueira, who a lot of people forget about... was the Featherweight great until the division got big in the USA.

Just like in many other sports, you have to weight time periods and depth (divisional in combat sports) at your own discretion.

Throwing DJ into the mix is like asking yourself the following..

What's better, being the top athlete at your community college or being Top 3 at a powerhouse university? Would you rather be Adam Morrison at Kansas or John Wall in the NBA?

Nothing embarrassing about losing a great fight to a very good fighter. Getting slaughtered in 13 seconds is embarrassing.

He didn't get slaughtered in cage but he did in the months build up to the fight.

He had never experienced anything like the disrespect and antics from Mcgregor and was mentally beat up before the fight started.

We'll never know how they both technically at their best will match up now.......and it certainly never happened that night.

Truthseeker wrote:

Nothing embarrassing about losing a great fight to a very good fighter. Getting slaughtered in 13 seconds is embarrassing.

He didn't get slaughtered in cage but he did in the months build up to the fight.

He had never experienced anything like the disrespect and antics from Mcgregor and was mentally beat up before the fight started.

We'll never know how they both technically at their best will match up now.......and it certainly never happened that night.

We could have found out if Aldo didn't turn down the rematch while calling the guy who starched him a pussy.

SaadOffTheDeck wrote:DJ should rate over Faber. If you're counting lightweights as little, you'd need more than bj on the list. I'd rate bj and Frankie both over Aldo.

DJ has better all-round skills than Faber but as JCS said he's a bit like Finito Lopez in that he's wading in a fairly shallow pool.

p4p1 wrote:

jujigatame wrote:Hunt is an absolute legend. 43 years old and still KOs a top 10 HW. I would not mind seeing Hunt/JDS II as I think Hunt could potentially avenge that loss, even at his advanced age.

Brunson is really good but I think he'll always be on the outside of the title picture looking in, similar to a (post-comeback) Thales Leites.

I love Hunt but he doesn't have enough left to compete with the top guys anymore. His once indestructible chin has left him, he slow compared to his prime. He still has frightening power and I will always watch him but I don't want to see him against the top 3-5 guys anymore, it's been proven time and time again that he can't hang with those guys anymore.

I had a bet on mark hunt on saturday. I admit i was just guessing though, i'm barely a casual fan of mma. Itbwas good to watch 2 fights simply box for the duration, made for far better action than grappling/ground. There really is a massive difference in quality though vs boxing.

jujigatame wrote:

SaadOffTheDeck wrote:DJ should rate over Faber. If you're counting lightweights as little, you'd need more than bj on the list. I'd rate bj and Frankie both over Aldo.

DJ has better all-round skills than Faber but as JCS said he's a bit like Finito Lopez in that he's wading in a fairly shallow pool.

Not shallow enough to rate below urijah.

Impractical Poster wrote:

SaadOffTheDeck wrote:I think McGregor goes over him too. Though that is arguable.

All time?

McGregor has yet to even defend a belt. McGregor may be better than him...possibly. But, he has not been in with nearly enough top guys to be considered in the running for a top p4p spot. It's also hard for me to put him over Aldo in a P4P all time sense when Conor lost to Nate Diaz and then went life or death with him to win a decision that could have went either way.

Diaz is a naturally bigger man than McGregor though. I think Nate's added size played a factor in the competiveness of those two fights. Obviously Dana overstated it but Diaz is between a lightweight and a welterweight imo.

On top of that, Im not completely convinced that Aldo would beat Diaz either.

IT wrote:

Impractical Poster wrote:

SaadOffTheDeck wrote:I think McGregor goes over him too. Though that is arguable.

All time?

McGregor has yet to even defend a belt. McGregor may be better than him...possibly. But, he has not been in with nearly enough top guys to be considered in the running for a top p4p spot. It's also hard for me to put him over Aldo in a P4P all time sense when Conor lost to Nate Diaz and then went life or death with him to win a decision that could have went either way.

Diaz is a naturally bigger man than McGregor though. I think Nate's added size played a factor in the competiveness of those two fights. Obviously Dana overstated it but Diaz is between a lightweight and a welterweight imo.

On top of that, Im not completely convinced that Aldo would beat Diaz either.

I don't buy the size excuse. McGregor was a huge FW. He is a natural LW. He even looks big at that weight to be honest . ANd it is at LW that Nate's career was spent bar a fight or two. And it is at LW that he got beat by the likes of Bendo, Guida, Stevenson, RDA, Thompson. Yet, McGregor had issues with him. It's because McGregor is not complete in all areas. He is extremely strong in one area. This is why Conor has been kept away from Edgar. It is also why he will never fight The Eagle. And I'd be surprised if he ever fight Ferguson as well.

Impractical Poster wrote:

IT wrote:

Impractical Poster wrote: All time?

McGregor has yet to even defend a belt. McGregor may be better than him...possibly. But, he has not been in with nearly enough top guys to be considered in the running for a top p4p spot. It's also hard for me to put him over Aldo in a P4P all time sense when Conor lost to Nate Diaz and then went life or death with him to win a decision that could have went either way.

Diaz is a naturally bigger man than McGregor though. I think Nate's added size played a factor in the competiveness of those two fights. Obviously Dana overstated it but Diaz is between a lightweight and a welterweight imo.

On top of that, Im not completely convinced that Aldo would beat Diaz either.

I don't buy the size excuse. McGregor was a huge FW. He is a natural LW. He even looks big at that weight to be honest . ANd it is at LW that Nate's career was spent bar a fight or two. And it is at LW that he got beat by the likes of Bendo, Guida, Stevenson, RDA, Thompson. Yet, McGregor had issues with him. It's because McGregor is not complete in all areas. He is extremely strong in one area. This is why Conor has been kept away from Edgar. It is also why he will never fight The Eagle. And I'd be surprised if he ever fight Ferguson as well.

Conor fans:

"Yes, Conor is an entire weightclass larger then feather weights when it comes to fight time, but that doesn't matter. You're just making excuses."

"But, of course Conor lost to Nate. Nate is so much larger than him."

zojo, wrote:

Impractical Poster wrote:

IT wrote: Diaz is a naturally bigger man than McGregor though. I think Nate's added size played a factor in the competiveness of those two fights. Obviously Dana overstated it but Diaz is between a lightweight and a welterweight imo.

On top of that, Im not completely convinced that Aldo would beat Diaz either.

I don't buy the size excuse. McGregor was a huge FW. He is a natural LW. He even looks big at that weight to be honest . ANd it is at LW that Nate's career was spent bar a fight or two. And it is at LW that he got beat by the likes of Bendo, Guida, Stevenson, RDA, Thompson. Yet, McGregor had issues with him. It's because McGregor is not complete in all areas. He is extremely strong in one area. This is why Conor has been kept away from Edgar. It is also why he will never fight The Eagle. And I'd be surprised if he ever fight Ferguson as well.

Conor fans:

"Yes, Conor is an entire weightclass larger then feather weights when it comes to fight time, but that doesn't matter. You're just making excuses."

"But, of course Conor lost to Nate. Nate is so much larger than him."

Conor himself before the Nate fight was spouting that weight didn't matter at all. That there should be a Conor weight. Then after the Nate loss, all of the sudden weight matters.