Classic American West Coast Boxing

[kikibalt]

I was curious about Armando Muniz of the 1950s who fought Art Aragon,Carlos Chavez and other top fighters and the Armando Muniz of the 1970s who fought every champion around at the time are they related and I am pretty sure that Oscar Muniz who beat the unbeaten at the time Jeff Chandler and Armondo Muniz who fought Napoles are cousins anybody know

Hammer, the two Armando's are not related, the young Armando and Oscar are cousins

Btw Hammer, the '50's Muniz had a brother that also fought at the same time, Gilberto Muniz.

[kikibalt]

Gilberto Muniz

division lightweight

nationality United States
residence El Paso, Texas, United States

won 25 (KO 4) + lost 16 (KO 5) + drawn 5 = 46
rounds boxed 254 KO% 8.7

1956-04-14 140 Lou Filippo 140 20-7-3
Legion Stadium, Hollywood, California, United States L TKO 2 10
~ time: 2:08 | referee: Dynamite Jackson ~
Muniz was knocked down four times.

1955-11-21 Baby Vasquez 37-9-1
Auditorio Municipal, Ciudad Juarez, Chihuahua, Mexico L UD 10 10

1955-08-20 137½ Mickey Northrup 139 18-7-1
Legion Stadium, Hollywood, California, United States L UD 10 10
Muniz was knocked down for a seven-count in the 10th round.

1955-08-02 139 Zurdo Salcido 134 1-2-0
Arena, Ocean Park, California, United States W TKO 4 10

1955-06-07 139¼ Jorge Macias 140¼ 19-21-4
Arena, Ocean Park, California, United States L SD 10 10

1955-05-10 138½ Eddie Chavez 138 51-7-3
Arena, Ocean Park, California, United States L UD 10 10
~ referee: Jimmy Wilson 53-57 | judge: Tommy Herman 53-57 | judge: Reggie Gilmore 52½-57½ ~

1955-04-12 137½ Juan Luis Campos 136½ 12-6-1
Arena, Ocean Park, California, United States W TKO 7 10
~ time: 2:51 | referee: Dynamite Jackson ~

1955-03-15 142½ Carlos Estrella 142 3-3-0
Arena, Ocean Park, California, United States W UD 6 6

1955-03-01 142¾ Marvin Anderson 139½ 1-0-1
Arena, Ocean Park, California, United States L SD 6 6
Anderson was knocked down in the 5th round.

1954-05-01 137½ Andy Escobar 138 13-1-0
Legion Stadium, Hollywood, California, United States L TKO 4 10
~ referee: Mushy Callahan ~
Muniz was knocked down twice in the 3rd round.

1954-02-09 137 Buddy Evatt 134 12-0-0
Olympic Auditorium, Los Angeles, California, United States L SD 10 10
~ referee: Mushy Callahan 56-54 | judge: Jimmy Wilson 53-57 | judge: Charley Randolph 54-56 ~
Muniz was knocked down in the 2nd and 3rd round.

1953-11-09 135 Frankie Cockrell 140 15-10-6
Arena, South Gate, California, United States W TD 5 6
Muniz was cut from an accidental headbutt.

1953-11-02 135 Joey Perez 140 7-6-6
Arena, South Gate, California, United States W UD 6 6
Muniz was knocked down in the 1st round.

1953-10-13 132 Ramon Carrillo 133½ 6-10-1
Olympic Auditorium, Los Angeles, California, United States W UD 6 6

1953-10-05 132 Stanley Sequeira 127 4-1-1
Arena, South Gate, California, United States W PTS 6 6

1953-09-08 131 Ruben Salazar 129½ 33-31-2
Olympic Auditorium, Los Angeles, California, United States W MD 6 6
~ referee: Reggie Gilmore | judge: Tommy Hart | judge: Jimmy Wallace ~

1953-09-03 133 Stanley Sequeira 131 2-0-1
Ryan's Auditorium, Fresno, California, United States W PTS 6 6

1953-08-25 134 Manuel Barraza 135 3-0-0
Olympic Auditorium, Los Angeles, California, United States W PTS 4 4

1953-08-10 134 Aaron Junior 136½ 19-26-13
Arena, South Gate, California, United States W PTS 4 4

1953-07-28 133½ Aaron Junior 134½ 19-26-11
Olympic Auditorium, Los Angeles, California, United States D PTS 4 4

1953-07-21 131 Aaron Junior 135 19-25-11
Olympic Auditorium, Los Angeles, California, United States W PTS 4 4

1953-07-14 133½ Ruben Salazar 130 33-30-2
Olympic Auditorium, Los Angeles, California, United States W PTS 6 6

1953-06-30 133 Ruben Salazar 130 33-29-2
Olympic Auditorium, Los Angeles, California, United States W UD 4 4

1953-06-23 133 Willie Crawford 136 1-5-1
Olympic Auditorium, Los Angeles, California, United States W SD 4 4

1953-05-12 133 Baby Face Mathis 133½ 36-22-8
Olympic Auditorium, Los Angeles, California, United States L TKO 6 6
~ time: 2:46 | referee: Tommy Hart 28½-26½ ~
Muniz was knocked down twice in the 6th round.

1953-05-05 135½ Chi Chi Martinez 132 1-2-0
Olympic Auditorium, Los Angeles, California, United States D PTS 4 4

1953-04-28 132 Roy Boyd 135½ 0-1-0
Olympic Auditorium, Los Angeles, California, United States W PTS 4 4

1953-04-21 132 Roy Boyd 135
Olympic Auditorium, Los Angeles, California, United States W PTS 4 4

1952-11-05 Tirso 'Sonny Rojo 8-1-0
Auditorio Municipal, Ciudad Juarez, Chihuahua, Mexico W UD 8 8

1952-09-24 Tirso 'Sonny Rojo 7-1-0
Bull Ring, Ciudad Juarez, Chihuahua, Mexico L PTS 6 6

1952-04-08 Tony Olivas 8-9-3
Auditorio Municipal, Ciudad Juarez, Chihuahua, Mexico L UD 6 6

1952-02-20 Bobby Romo 13-8-7
Ciudad Juarez, Chihuahua, Mexico W PTS 6 6

1951-11-21 Tony Olivas 7-9-2
Auditorio Municipal, Ciudad Juarez, Chihuahua, Mexico D PTS 6 6

1951-10-01 144 Baby Face Mathis 136 30-18-8
Sports Center, Tucson, Arizona, United States L DQ 5 6
Muniz did not answer the bell for the 6th round.

1951-09-11 Ray Perez 6-1-4
Coliseum, El Paso, Texas, United States L PTS 6 6

1951-08-17 Lupe Rodriguez 4-6-0
El Paso, Texas, United States W KO 2

1951-07-27 Salvador Luna 1-1-0
El Paso, Texas, United States W KO 2

1951-06-15 Johnny Hart 12-3-4
Phoenix, Arizona, United States L KO 5

1951-04-03 130 Jackie Blair 130 55-14-8
Olympiad Arena, Houston, Texas, United States L KO 4 10
~ time: 2:01 ~

1951-03-02 Alberto Enriquez
Auditorio Municipal, Ciudad Juarez, Chihuahua, Mexico W UD 6 6

1951-02-22 131 Oscar Price 133 8-11-4
Phoenix, Arizona, United States L PTS 10 10

1951-01-24 134 Ray Mila 133 2-18-1
Coliseum, El Paso, Texas, United States W PTS 4 4

1951-01-15 132 Johnny Hart 132 7-3-2
Sports Center, Tucson, Arizona, United States D PTS 4 4

1951-01-10 129 Davey Padilla 127½ 9-11-2
Coliseum, El Paso, Texas, United States D PTS 4 4

1950-11-27 133 Marcus Vasquez 132 16-15-7
Sports Center, Tucson, Arizona, United States W UD 4 4

1950-11-15 131½ Juan Baltazar 132 1-2-1
Coliseum, El Paso, Texas, United States W UD 4 4

[kikibalt]

Jimmy Abeyta vs Ramon Calatayud
Vacant North American Flyweight Title

April 22, 1958, The Coliseum,Richmond, California
The fight ended in a draw.

[kikibalt]

Jimmy Abeyta

division flyweight
nationality United States

residence Oakland, California, United States
won 15 (KO 10) + lost 7 (KO 1) + drawn 4 = 26
rounds boxed 172 KO% 38.46

1961-09-18 115 Herman Marques 118 15-7-1
Kezar Pavilion, San Francisco, California, United States L UD 12 12
~ referee: Fred Apostoli 2-10 | judge: Tony Bosnich 0-11 | judge: Bob Mitchell 3-7 ~
~ USA California State bantamweight title ~

1961-06-01 117 Manny Elias 117 18-13-0
Auditorium, Oakland, California, United States L PTS 10 10
~ referee: Vern Bybee 1-5 ~

1961-02-13 118 Ronnie Perez 122½ 9-4-5
Auditorium, Oakland, California, United States L PTS 10 10
~ referee: Elmer Costa 2-5 ~
Perez "handed Jimmy Abeyta a sound boxing lesson.." (United Press)

1961-01-18 Pimi Barajas 118½ 20-16-1
Auditorium, Oakland, California, United States W PTS 10 10
~ referee: Tony Bosnich 7-1 ~

1960-11-16 117 Rocky Fontanette 131 5-13-3
Auditorium, Oakland, California, United States W TKO 2 10
~ time: 1:46 | referee: Vern Bybee ~

1960-10-26 116½ Vince Castro 117 6-2-2
Auditorium, Oakland, California, United States W KO 1 10
~ time: 1:21 | referee: Fred Apostoli ~

1960-08-25 Jesus Miranda 0-5-0
Auditorium, Oakland, California, United States W TKO 4 10
~ referee: Elmer Costa ~

1960-07-06 115 Frankie Duarte 118 1-9-0
Auditorium, Oakland, California, United States W KO 7 10

1958-07-21 Ramon Calatayud 15-4-3
Caracas, Venezuela L PTS 10 10

1958-05-24 Mario de Leon 19-10-1
San Diego, California, United States L KO 9 10

1958-04-22 112 Ramon Calatayud 112 15-4-2
Auditorium, Richmond, California, United States D PTS 12 12
~ referee: Jack Downey 113-115 | judge: Tony Bosnich 116-114 | judge: Vern Bybee 115-115 ~
Vacant North American Flyweight Title

1958-03-27 111½ Ramon Calatayud 111½ 14-4-2
Olympic Auditorium, Los Angeles, California, United States L UD 10 10
~ referee: Tommy Hart 87-100 | judge: Jimmy Wilson 84-100 | judge: Dynamite Jackson 90-99 ~

1958-01-14 115 Herman Marques 117¼ 4-0-0
Auditorium, Richmond, California, United States W PTS 10 10
~ referee: Jack Downey 97-94 ~

1957-11-18 Baby Rios 0-5-1
San Diego, California, United States W KO 1

1957-10-22 112 Abe Villa 111½ 9-1-1
Auditorium, Richmond, California, United States W KO 9 12
~ time: 0:34 | referee: Jack Silver ~
~ USA California State flyweight title ~
Villa was knocked down in the 1st and 9th round.

1957-01-15 114 Tony Ganados 118 1-2-0
Auditorium, Richmond, California, United States W TKO 9 10

1956-05-19 112 Jackie Spurgeon 110 4-4-0
Legion Stadium, Hollywood, California, United States W TKO 10 12
~ USA California State flyweight title ~

1956-02-22 116 Freddie Viscarra 119 5-0-3
San Francisco Gardens, San Francisco, California, United States W PTS 6 6

1956-01-18 114 Freddie Viscarra 116 5-0-2
Cow Palace, San Francisco, California, United States D PTS 6 6

1955-12-13 116 Baby Ballas 119 1-0-0
Auditorium, Richmond, California, United States W TKO 2 6

1955-11-03 115 Jackie Herrera 115 1-5-0
Winterland Arena, San Francisco, California, United States W KO 2 4
~ time: 1:38 ~

1955-10-05 112 Jess Martinez 112 0-1-0
Auditorium, Richmond, California, United States W PTS 4 4

1955-08-30 115 Tony Duran 117
Auditorium, Richmond, California, United States W PTS 4 4

1955-08-16 116¼ Freddie Viscarra 120 5-0-1
Auditorium, Richmond, California, United States D PTS 4 4

1955-08-02 115 Freddie Viscarra 118 5-0-0
Auditorium, Richmond, California, United States D PTS 4 4

1951-08-22 112 Raul Murillo 113
Auditorium, Oakland, California, United States L PTS 4 4
Both made their debuts.The Ring,Nov 1951

[kikibalt]

Shot this photo yesterday as I was walking Connie out, she was going to work so she can earn some money to support (keep) me...

[kikibalt]

Frankie is fighting Jose Luis Sanchez in Las Vegas, Between the first and second round Sanchez tells his corner men in Spanish "The S-B is good", Beto Martinez his chief second tells Sanchez, "Don't let him hit you" Sanchez tells Martinez, 'Hell, he don't ask my permission"

I thought it was so funny when I heard it on video...

Frankie won by ko in the second round.

[Rick Farris]

Shot this photo yesterday as I was walking Connie out, she was going to work so she can earn some money to support (keep) me...

D A kept man! My idol.

[kikibalt]

Shot this photo yesterday as I was walking Connie out, she was going to work so she can earn some money to support (keep) me...

D A kept man! My idol.

Try it Rick, you might like it....

[Rick Farris]

Try it Rick, you might like it....
-------------------------------------

I'm working on it, Frank.

[Rick Farris]

For Rog . . .

Archie Moore vs. Joey Maxim
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q0oD0OV7 ... re=related

[kikibalt]

Double-dipping waiters sandwiched between two delis

Langer's and Canter's share workers, who contend with different clientele and menus. Which pastrami is better? Don't ask.



Salvador Lopez, photographed during his lunchtime shift at Langer's. (Michael Robinson Chavez / Los Angeles Times / January 7, 2010)

By Robert Faturechi

January 13, 2010

Salvador Lopez, a waiter at Langer's, has the routine down pat. After a hectic lunch shift serving sandwiches on rye at the pastrami mecca next to MacArthur Park, he negotiates a series of surface streets -- up Normandie, across Beverly -- to make his way into the Fairfax district.

He beelines into the locker room of another renowned Jewish deli, shedding the signature Langer's bow tie for a tight-fitting black T-shirt that reads: I ♥ Canter's.

Lopez is not a delicatessen double agent, funneling trade secrets on Russian dressing and blintzes. The 29-year-old is one of several waiters who openly works at two of the delis that compete for the title of Los Angeles' best.

The delis' unique shared employee pool speaks to the changing demographics of their neighborhoods. Langer's, surrounded by drug dealers and vendors selling fake IDs, is open for lunch only. Canter's, in a once-sleepy neighborhood now home to cafes and clubs, draws a younger crowd well into the wee hours.

Sharing workers makes sense, the deli owners say, because top talent is rare. A good waiter who understands the makings of a mean Reuben is hard to find.

"It has nothing to do at all with Canter's and I getting along," said Norm Langer, who took over running the deli from his late father. "It requires manual dexterity. It requires caring. It requires knowledge. Every sandwich is its own work of art."

Los Angeles has many a top-notch deli, what with Art's and Jerry's and Brent's and Nate'n Al.

Canter's and Langer's, Los Angeles fixtures for decades, are still owned by the families whose names grace their marquees.

Canter's opened in the 1930s in Boyle Heights, when that neighborhood's Jewish residents sought the meat-heavy, rye bread sandwiches popular on the East Coast. Over the years, in its present location on Fairfax Avenue, it has become a hangout for a mixed assortment of customers -- older Jews who show up for lunch and young hipsters who arrive after last call to nosh on knishes and noodle kugel.

Langer's, which opened in the late 1940s, was long a haven for deli-lovers. But after the area got rougher in the 1980s and '90s, the restaurant began closing after dark.

The two delis are separated by miles of congested streets. Their competition has never been over customers, just bragging rights. In a way, Al Langer, the patriarch at Langer's Deli, was the original dual employee. Not long after moving out west from Newark, N.J., he got a job as a deli man at Canter's.

In 1947, he opened his own deli, kitty-corner from MacArthur Park. His spot soon made a splash with his cuts of pastrami edged with peppered fat, stacked between slices of double-baked rye -- warm and soft inside, crunchy on the outside. On his way out of Los Angeles last year, former LAPD (and NYPD) Chief William J. Bratton praised Langer's corned beef, declaring it better than New York's.

Talking over the jazz floating out of the Kibitz Room -- Canter's small music venue -- longtime manager Bella Haig (whose own daughter works at Langer's) can hardly finish a sentence without pointing out a waiter who has worked at both delis.

"He worked at Langer's. This guy used to work at Langer's too!" she says. "That's a former Langer's employee. He got tired of it."

"Short-lived!" the waiter shouted back.

The waiters who currently work at both restaurants are understandably reluctant to say which one they like better, not even betraying which pastrami they prefer. They say they simply feel lucky to have two jobs in this sour economy -- and that they enjoy the contrasting clienteles.

On a recent night at Canter's, a young man in a long coat with red feathery frills came in with a woman who greeted friends with an outstretched hand ready to be kissed.

Lopez said clients at Langer's are more of the workaday variety.

"At Langer's, it's downtown people, suits and ties," he said. "At Canter's, it's like rock 'n' roll, long hair, tattoos."

Eva Francois began serving at Canter's 17 years ago. The nighttime shift allowed her to spend days with her young son, but once he grew older, she was able to work days. A co-worker who served at both delis suggested lunch shifts at Langer's, an extra job she has been working the last eight years. Like many dual-deli waiters, Francois takes the health benefits at Langer's -- a union shop.

Working up to five lunch shifts a week at Langer's and four night shifts at Canter's, the busy waitress can hardly manage to keep lunch meats out of routine conversation. Describing her Canter's boss, she says: "She's the best manager. This is no bologna."

Starting out at a second deli after getting used to the first one can be confusing in the beginning. At Langer's, sandwiches are ordered by number, at Canter's by name. When Lopez started working both jobs, he would have to translate from Langer's to Canter's in his mind, almost like someone learning a foreign tongue.

"I had to think Canter's mode to remember Langer's mode," Lopez said.

A "No. 19" at Langer's, for instance, is a Brooklyn Downtowner at Canter's: Swiss cheese, pastrami, Russian dressing and cole slaw on rye.

Canter granddaughter Terri Bloomgarden said it's easy to overstate deli rivalry. Delis all over the city, she said, share ingredients, offering smoked fish and salami when someone else runs out. She said she can't recall doing so with Langer's, but would be willing.

Norm Langer, whose father got into the food business as a child in New Jersey selling hot dogs to pay for his bar mitzvah, slathers on a little more bluster. The shared employee system is mutually beneficial, he says, but it's not a friendship, not even a partnership.

At 65, the deli man has not lost his competitive edge.

"I don't talk to these people," he said of Canter's. "They don't talk to me. If you want to know the God's truth, most of 'em don't like me. I'm the guy getting all the publicity. I'm the guy with the best pastrami in the universe."

[dagosd2000]

For Rog . . .

Archie Moore vs. Joey Maxim
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q0oD0OV7 ... re=related

Thanks Rick
You know this is what I miss. A championship fight in a town like St. Louis. Vegas wasn't there yet and maybe a real big fight in an outdoor arena. Doc Kearns went with Moore after this. I guess Charley Johnson had a hand in that. That's when Archie relocated for good to San Diego.

[kikibalt]

Roger...No call from Jr. R. daughter?

[dagosd2000]

Double-dipping waiters sandwiched between two delis

Langer's and Canter's share workers, who contend with different clientele and menus. Which pastrami is better? Don't ask.



Salvador Lopez, photographed during his lunchtime shift at Langer's. (Michael Robinson Chavez / Los Angeles Times / January 7, 2010)

By Robert Faturechi

January 13, 2010

Salvador Lopez, a waiter at Langer's, has the routine down pat. After a hectic lunch shift serving sandwiches on rye at the pastrami mecca next to MacArthur Park, he negotiates a series of surface streets -- up Normandie, across Beverly -- to make his way into the Fairfax district.

He beelines into the locker room of another renowned Jewish deli, shedding the signature Langer's bow tie for a tight-fitting black T-shirt that reads: I ♥ Canter's.

Lopez is not a delicatessen double agent, funneling trade secrets on Russian dressing and blintzes. The 29-year-old is one of several waiters who openly works at two of the delis that compete for the title of Los Angeles' best.

The delis' unique shared employee pool speaks to the changing demographics of their neighborhoods. Langer's, surrounded by drug dealers and vendors selling fake IDs, is open for lunch only. Canter's, in a once-sleepy neighborhood now home to cafes and clubs, draws a younger crowd well into the wee hours.

Sharing workers makes sense, the deli owners say, because top talent is rare. A good waiter who understands the makings of a mean Reuben is hard to find.

"It has nothing to do at all with Canter's and I getting along," said Norm Langer, who took over running the deli from his late father. "It requires manual dexterity. It requires caring. It requires knowledge. Every sandwich is its own work of art."

Los Angeles has many a top-notch deli, what with Art's and Jerry's and Brent's and Nate'n Al.

Canter's and Langer's, Los Angeles fixtures for decades, are still owned by the families whose names grace their marquees.

Canter's opened in the 1930s in Boyle Heights, when that neighborhood's Jewish residents sought the meat-heavy, rye bread sandwiches popular on the East Coast. Over the years, in its present location on Fairfax Avenue, it has become a hangout for a mixed assortment of customers -- older Jews who show up for lunch and young hipsters who arrive after last call to nosh on knishes and noodle kugel.

Langer's, which opened in the late 1940s, was long a haven for deli-lovers. But after the area got rougher in the 1980s and '90s, the restaurant began closing after dark.

The two delis are separated by miles of congested streets. Their competition has never been over customers, just bragging rights. In a way, Al Langer, the patriarch at Langer's Deli, was the original dual employee. Not long after moving out west from Newark, N.J., he got a job as a deli man at Canter's.

In 1947, he opened his own deli, kitty-corner from MacArthur Park. His spot soon made a splash with his cuts of pastrami edged with peppered fat, stacked between slices of double-baked rye -- warm and soft inside, crunchy on the outside. On his way out of Los Angeles last year, former LAPD (and NYPD) Chief William J. Bratton praised Langer's corned beef, declaring it better than New York's.

Talking over the jazz floating out of the Kibitz Room -- Canter's small music venue -- longtime manager Bella Haig (whose own daughter works at Langer's) can hardly finish a sentence without pointing out a waiter who has worked at both delis.

"He worked at Langer's. This guy used to work at Langer's too!" she says. "That's a former Langer's employee. He got tired of it."

"Short-lived!" the waiter shouted back.

The waiters who currently work at both restaurants are understandably reluctant to say which one they like better, not even betraying which pastrami they prefer. They say they simply feel lucky to have two jobs in this sour economy -- and that they enjoy the contrasting clienteles.

On a recent night at Canter's, a young man in a long coat with red feathery frills came in with a woman who greeted friends with an outstretched hand ready to be kissed.

Lopez said clients at Langer's are more of the workaday variety.

"At Langer's, it's downtown people, suits and ties," he said. "At Canter's, it's like rock 'n' roll, long hair, tattoos."

Eva Francois began serving at Canter's 17 years ago. The nighttime shift allowed her to spend days with her young son, but once he grew older, she was able to work days. A co-worker who served at both delis suggested lunch shifts at Langer's, an extra job she has been working the last eight years. Like many dual-deli waiters, Francois takes the health benefits at Langer's -- a union shop.

Working up to five lunch shifts a week at Langer's and four night shifts at Canter's, the busy waitress can hardly manage to keep lunch meats out of routine conversation. Describing her Canter's boss, she says: "She's the best manager. This is no bologna."

Starting out at a second deli after getting used to the first one can be confusing in the beginning. At Langer's, sandwiches are ordered by number, at Canter's by name. When Lopez started working both jobs, he would have to translate from Langer's to Canter's in his mind, almost like someone learning a foreign tongue.

"I had to think Canter's mode to remember Langer's mode," Lopez said.

A "No. 19" at Langer's, for instance, is a Brooklyn Downtowner at Canter's: Swiss cheese, pastrami, Russian dressing and cole slaw on rye.

Canter granddaughter Terri Bloomgarden said it's easy to overstate deli rivalry. Delis all over the city, she said, share ingredients, offering smoked fish and salami when someone else runs out. She said she can't recall doing so with Langer's, but would be willing.

Norm Langer, whose father got into the food business as a child in New Jersey selling hot dogs to pay for his bar mitzvah, slathers on a little more bluster. The shared employee system is mutually beneficial, he says, but it's not a friendship, not even a partnership.

At 65, the deli man has not lost his competitive edge.

"I don't talk to these people," he said of Canter's. "They don't talk to me. If you want to know the God's truth, most of 'em don't like me. I'm the guy getting all the publicity. I'm the guy with the best pastrami in the universe."

Damn it Frank.They're tiling the kitchen floor today and I asked Maria where she wanted to go to eat. She said "Where you want to go."

I had my mouth watering for a pastrami sandwich,but for the life of me there ain't a decent Jewish deli in this city. Then you post an article about Canter's.

While I'm eating my machaca,I'm pretending it's pastrami(with loads of fat)on Russian rye with brown mustard.

[Randyman]

Frankie is fighting Jose Luis Sanchez in Las Vegas, Between the first and second round Sanchez tells his corner men in Spanish "The S-B is good", Beto Martinez his chief second tells Sanchez, "Don't let him hit you" Sanchez tells Martinez, 'Hell, he don't ask my permission"

I thought it was so funny when I heard it on video...

Frankie won by ko in the second round.

Frank, that is hilarious!

[dagosd2000]

Roger...No call from Jr. R. daughter?

Frank
I'm going to get on the horn right now. Let you know in a minute.

[Randyman]

Double-dipping waiters sandwiched between two delis

Langer's and Canter's share workers, who contend with different clientele and menus. Which pastrami is better? Don't ask.



Salvador Lopez, photographed during his lunchtime shift at Langer's. (Michael Robinson Chavez / Los Angeles Times / January 7, 2010)

By Robert Faturechi

January 13, 2010

Salvador Lopez, a waiter at Langer's, has the routine down pat. After a hectic lunch shift serving sandwiches on rye at the pastrami mecca next to MacArthur Park, he negotiates a series of surface streets -- up Normandie, across Beverly -- to make his way into the Fairfax district.

He beelines into the locker room of another renowned Jewish deli, shedding the signature Langer's bow tie for a tight-fitting black T-shirt that reads: I ♥ Canter's.

Lopez is not a delicatessen double agent, funneling trade secrets on Russian dressing and blintzes. The 29-year-old is one of several waiters who openly works at two of the delis that compete for the title of Los Angeles' best.

The delis' unique shared employee pool speaks to the changing demographics of their neighborhoods. Langer's, surrounded by drug dealers and vendors selling fake IDs, is open for lunch only. Canter's, in a once-sleepy neighborhood now home to cafes and clubs, draws a younger crowd well into the wee hours.

Sharing workers makes sense, the deli owners say, because top talent is rare. A good waiter who understands the makings of a mean Reuben is hard to find.

"It has nothing to do at all with Canter's and I getting along," said Norm Langer, who took over running the deli from his late father. "It requires manual dexterity. It requires caring. It requires knowledge. Every sandwich is its own work of art."

Los Angeles has many a top-notch deli, what with Art's and Jerry's and Brent's and Nate'n Al.

Canter's and Langer's, Los Angeles fixtures for decades, are still owned by the families whose names grace their marquees.

Canter's opened in the 1930s in Boyle Heights, when that neighborhood's Jewish residents sought the meat-heavy, rye bread sandwiches popular on the East Coast. Over the years, in its present location on Fairfax Avenue, it has become a hangout for a mixed assortment of customers -- older Jews who show up for lunch and young hipsters who arrive after last call to nosh on knishes and noodle kugel.

Langer's, which opened in the late 1940s, was long a haven for deli-lovers. But after the area got rougher in the 1980s and '90s, the restaurant began closing after dark.

The two delis are separated by miles of congested streets. Their competition has never been over customers, just bragging rights. In a way, Al Langer, the patriarch at Langer's Deli, was the original dual employee. Not long after moving out west from Newark, N.J., he got a job as a deli man at Canter's.

In 1947, he opened his own deli, kitty-corner from MacArthur Park. His spot soon made a splash with his cuts of pastrami edged with peppered fat, stacked between slices of double-baked rye -- warm and soft inside, crunchy on the outside. On his way out of Los Angeles last year, former LAPD (and NYPD) Chief William J. Bratton praised Langer's corned beef, declaring it better than New York's.

Talking over the jazz floating out of the Kibitz Room -- Canter's small music venue -- longtime manager Bella Haig (whose own daughter works at Langer's) can hardly finish a sentence without pointing out a waiter who has worked at both delis.

"He worked at Langer's. This guy used to work at Langer's too!" she says. "That's a former Langer's employee. He got tired of it."

"Short-lived!" the waiter shouted back.

The waiters who currently work at both restaurants are understandably reluctant to say which one they like better, not even betraying which pastrami they prefer. They say they simply feel lucky to have two jobs in this sour economy -- and that they enjoy the contrasting clienteles.

On a recent night at Canter's, a young man in a long coat with red feathery frills came in with a woman who greeted friends with an outstretched hand ready to be kissed.

Lopez said clients at Langer's are more of the workaday variety.

"At Langer's, it's downtown people, suits and ties," he said. "At Canter's, it's like rock 'n' roll, long hair, tattoos."

Eva Francois began serving at Canter's 17 years ago. The nighttime shift allowed her to spend days with her young son, but once he grew older, she was able to work days. A co-worker who served at both delis suggested lunch shifts at Langer's, an extra job she has been working the last eight years. Like many dual-deli waiters, Francois takes the health benefits at Langer's -- a union shop.

Working up to five lunch shifts a week at Langer's and four night shifts at Canter's, the busy waitress can hardly manage to keep lunch meats out of routine conversation. Describing her Canter's boss, she says: "She's the best manager. This is no bologna."

Starting out at a second deli after getting used to the first one can be confusing in the beginning. At Langer's, sandwiches are ordered by number, at Canter's by name. When Lopez started working both jobs, he would have to translate from Langer's to Canter's in his mind, almost like someone learning a foreign tongue.

"I had to think Canter's mode to remember Langer's mode," Lopez said.

A "No. 19" at Langer's, for instance, is a Brooklyn Downtowner at Canter's: Swiss cheese, pastrami, Russian dressing and cole slaw on rye.

Canter granddaughter Terri Bloomgarden said it's easy to overstate deli rivalry. Delis all over the city, she said, share ingredients, offering smoked fish and salami when someone else runs out. She said she can't recall doing so with Langer's, but would be willing.

Norm Langer, whose father got into the food business as a child in New Jersey selling hot dogs to pay for his bar mitzvah, slathers on a little more bluster. The shared employee system is mutually beneficial, he says, but it's not a friendship, not even a partnership.

At 65, the deli man has not lost his competitive edge.

"I don't talk to these people," he said of Canter's. "They don't talk to me. If you want to know the God's truth, most of 'em don't like me. I'm the guy getting all the publicity. I'm the guy with the best pastrami in the universe."

Damn it Frank.They're tiling the kitchen floor today and I asked Maria where she wanted to go to eat. She said "Where you want to go."

I had my mouth watering for a pastrami sandwich,but for the life of me there ain't a decent Jewish deli in this city. Then you post an article about Canter's.

While I'm eating my machaca,I'm pretending it's pastrami(with loads of fat)on Russian rye with brown mustard.

The Corned Beef on Rye at Cantors.

[Randyman]

For Rog . . .

Archie Moore vs. Joey Maxim
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q0oD0OV7 ... re=related

Thanks for posting that Rick. I love watching those old clips. The glory days of boxing. How do you think Robinson would have done if he had faced Moore?

Randy

[Randyman]

Shot this photo yesterday as I was walking Connie out, she was going to work so she can earn some money to support (keep) me...

D A kept man! My idol.

I give all praise to the Great Kept One!

[Randyman]

Jimmy Abeyta vs Ramon Calatayud
Vacant North American Flyweight Title

A picture perfect right hand to the body. You gotta love it!

Randy

[kikibalt]

Damn it Frank.They're tiling the kitchen floor today and I asked Maria where she wanted to go to eat. She said "Where you want to go."

I had my mouth watering for a pastrami sandwich,but for the life of me there ain't a decent Jewish deli in this city. Then you post an article about Canter's.

While I'm eating my machaca,I'm pretending it's pastrami(with loads of fat)on Russian rye with brown mustard.

LOL!!

[kikibalt]

Jimmy Abeyta vs Ramon Calatayud
Vacant North American Flyweight Title

A picture perfect right hand to the body. You gotta love it!

Randy

See the way he has the hand turned, just the way it should be...

[Randyman]

Good morning everyone on classic American West Coast Boxing,Frank I Love the story on Cruising even though we are from different states cruising was big here in Vegas up until 25 years ago it brings back so many memories of when we used to cruise fremont street for most of the guys like myself it was about the girls we were trying to meet and it was the same story of why they cops tried to hastle us about cruising as in the story on Van nuys blvd,the hotel owners complained that we were ruining there business for tourists so they eventually blocked it off and made ''The fremont street experience'' so no cars on fremont just tourists walking around,also I like the pbf we do chicken right carigature it is so amazing to me how guys like mayweather have not learned anything about life and probably never will until all the leeches have jumped off his back I see him sometimes in different places like restaurants here in town and it not so much him making a fool of himself but these hanger ons other young guys who he hangs out with and they pat him on the back and tell him what a great guy he is as he foots the bill for everything all you have to do is look at mike tyson and see what not to do and how not to act.

Hammer, back in the '70s cruising was big on Whittier Blvd on the eastside, Randy might remember and probably did some cruising there himself, I didn't, as by that time I was well on my way of becoming a middle age man.

Frank, we used to cruise Whittier Blvd. Sunday night was the big night. We used to caravan from Pico Rivera. It was a good time. Sometimes it wood get out of hand but still, it was fun. Lots of chicks!

Randy

[Randyman]

Jimmy Abeyta vs Ramon Calatayud
Vacant North American Flyweight Title

A picture perfect right hand to the body. You gotta love it!

Randy

See the way he has the hand turned, just the way it should be...

These photos are not just entertaining, they are educational too. Same with the youtube videos.

Randy

[dagosd2000]

Frank
The way it was just explained to me is that Carlos Barragan ,who runs the gym,told some guy ,who knows Junior's daughter, to call me. Now Carlos is going to call the guy again to tell him to call Junior's daughter and have her call me. I don't have a good feeling about this,but I'll stay by the phone.