Classic American West Coast Boxing

[Rick Farris]

Hammer . . . Does Ron Lyle still work as a security guard in Las Vegas?

[bennie]

I remember the Boxing Record. I think he started publishing it about 1972 or 1973. O'Grady used to get it and I'd read it at O'Grady's office. Another great publication in the 1970s came out of New York - Flash Gordon's "Tonight's Boxing Program." Did any of you California guys get that one? It was maybe the best boxing publication in the 1970s, although it definitely had a East Coast slant.

O'Grady would love that cover, Ray?

Indeed. But as far as Pat was concerned, any picture would have been okay. He used to say "All publicity is good pubilicity." Pat never met Tiger Woods.

Poor old Tiger (well, not so poor, fiscally). They showed "the first picture" of him in all the British newspapers yesterday since his exploits became public knowledge, hunched under a hood and looking rather uncomfortable.

[bennie]

Cheers, Hammer. Bruce was too brave for his own good and just couldn't stand the thought of life minus boxing.

PS: Imagine what Ron Lyle would do today.

Ron Lyle . . . the only guy I ever wanted Ali to beat.

Why's that?

[Rick Farris]

The perception of money . . .


Some people have things out of proportion when it comes to what boxers make fighting professionally. For more than three decades, high profile prizefighters can make purses in the millions. Of course, these are the best of the best, and most who have earned million dollar purses, usually leave the sport in financial turmoil.

A film director I know once asked me, how did you end up in this business, what did you do with your money.
I explained that I wasn't a top rated fighter, never made $million purses.
"How much did you make for a fight?", was the question.

"Well, I made $80. for my pro debut, a five-rounder. I was then paid $75. for my second fight, a four-rounder."

He was surprised and shocked that somebody would risk their health trading blows with a pro for pocket change.
I assured him it got better. When I started fighting six-rounders, I was paid $150. and when I fought a six-rounder on a major title card, they'd push it up to $250. I fought an eight-rounder once for $300. I fought a bout scheduled for ten in National City for $500.

Professional boxing put gas in my car, gave me some pocket change, and left me a fortune in great memories.
When I look at some of my contemporaries today, the guys who made the big money, I realize that things worked out pretty well for me.
I took something from boxing, boxing took nothing from me.
I didn't leave boxing with a winning record, but I left a winner, in my mind. I didn't feel that way until recently.


-Rick Farris

[Rick Farris]

Poor old Tiger (well, not so poor, fiscally). They showed "the first picture" of him in all the British newspapers yesterday since his exploits became public knowledge, hunched under a hood and looking rather uncomfortable.[/quote]
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Tiger . . .

Tiger Woods is GUILTY!!!! How dare he act like a man.
People sure love to point fingers and jump on the band wagon.
Poor bastids are too small to look in the mirror.
Tiger, take a little time off, get yourself together and then get back on the course.
In two years this will all be forgotten and you'll be on top of your game again.
Most of those who are criticizing you couldn't get laid in a whore house with a fist full of $hundreds.

[kikibalt]

Poor old Tiger (well, not so poor, fiscally). They showed "the first picture" of him in all the British newspapers yesterday since his exploits became public knowledge, hunched under a hood and looking rather uncomfortable
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Tiger . . .

Tiger Woods is GUILTY!!!! How dare he act like a man.
People sure love to point fingers and jump on the band wagon.
Poor bastids are too small to look in the mirror.
Tiger, take a little time off, get yourself together and then get back on the course.
In two years this will all be forgotten and you'll be on top of your game again.
Most of those who are criticizing you couldn't get laid in a whore house with a fist full of $hundreds.

Amen!!

[THEHAMMER321]

Hammer . . . Does Ron Lyle still work as a security guard in Las Vegas?

Last I saw of him he was working at a small casino called the Ellis island that was in the early 1990s also David Bey also worked as a security guard there in the 1990s

[THEHAMMER321]

Cheers, Hammer. Bruce was too brave for his own good and just couldn't stand the thought of life minus boxing.

PS: Imagine what Ron Lyle would do today.

Remember with Ron he didn't turn pro until he was 30 as he was locked up for years he would have done better even back then if he would have turned pro at 20 years old

Quarry settles the score for Flores stable . . .

In 1970, I was competeing in the National Golden Gloves Tournament of Champions which was held that year at the Las Vegas Convention Center. My team mate and friend, Kit Boursse', was matched with a big heavyweight from Colorado named Ron Lyle. Kit was doing well in the tournament until he ran into Lyle. Lyle would stop Kit in the third round, the only time he was ever stopped in his career. Lyle was being touted as the "next Sonny Liston".

A few years later, Lyle would have a big unbeaten streak and was pretty confident. He then signed to fight another Flores' heavyweight, who just happened to be Kit Boursse's stablemate, Jerry Quarry. I remember that Kit Boursse' and I watched this fight together, Jerry Quarry got revenge for Kit, easily out boxing Lyle, made him look like an amateur. I remember Kit said nothing, but I still remember the smile on his face when he saw Jerry's hand raised. One of Johnny Flores' heavyweights failed against Ron Lyle in the Golden Gloves, but for the big money Jerry Quarry came thru. I just loved when Jerry would do that.


-Rick Farris

Rick what was the deal with Jerry's dad I always heard that his dad as tough on the kids and also did his dad have anything to do with managing the careers of both Jerry and Mike

[Rick Farris]

Armando Muniz & Bobby "Boogaloo" Watts . . .

Just got off the phone with our friend, Armando Muniz.
I have a day off and Mando & I have a meeting with an event organizer in Beverly Hills.
This year's WBHOF banquet will not be challeneged by incompetence this year.
We are going to be in Las Vegas, and we hope to take the event to higher level.

Mando and I usually talk WBHOF business for awhile, and then we step back into the past together, and relive the "old days".
This morning, I was at the computor typing a post for this thread when Mando called.
As pros, Mando & I fought on the same card eight times.
I recall that after scoring four straight KO's in his first two months as a pro, Armando was taken the distance by a Philly fighter.
The man who extended Armando Muniz to the six-round limit for the first time was a future middleweight contender, Bobby Watts.

I asked Mando about his memories of Bobby "Boogaloo" Watts and he shared some interesting info.
Mando had beaten Watts in the 1968 U.S. trials, but said that Watts was much tougher when they met as pros at the Olympic.
"He was a good fighter and I felt his power. My pro win over Bobby Watts was very close."

Of course, Watts would go on to defeat Marvin Hagler in the future.

If you want to look at a record loaded with great champions and contenders, none is any better than Armando Muniz's for our era.


-Rick Farris

[Rick Farris]

Remember with Ron he didn't turn pro until he was 30 as he was locked up for years he would have done better even back then if he would have turned pro at 20 years old

Quarry settles the score for Flores stable . . .

In 1970, I was competeing in the National Golden Gloves Tournament of Champions which was held that year at the Las Vegas Convention Center. My team mate and friend, Kit Boursse', was matched with a big heavyweight from Colorado named Ron Lyle. Kit was doing well in the tournament until he ran into Lyle. Lyle would stop Kit in the third round, the only time he was ever stopped in his career. Lyle was being touted as the "next Sonny Liston".

A few years later, Lyle would have a big unbeaten streak and was pretty confident. He then signed to fight another Flores' heavyweight, who just happened to be Kit Boursse's stablemate, Jerry Quarry. I remember that Kit Boursse' and I watched this fight together, Jerry Quarry got revenge for Kit, easily out boxing Lyle, made him look like an amateur. I remember Kit said nothing, but I still remember the smile on his face when he saw Jerry's hand raised. One of Johnny Flores' heavyweights failed against Ron Lyle in the Golden Gloves, but for the big money Jerry Quarry came thru. I just loved when Jerry would do that.


-Rick Farris

Rick what was the deal with Jerry's dad I always heard that his dad as tough on the kids and also did his dad have anything to do with managing the careers of both Jerry and Mike

Hammer . . . The best way to answer this question is to refer you to a story I wrote about Jerry Quarry a few years ago.
It explains Jack Quarry's part in the management of Jerry. For the story, click on the link below:


http://www.cyberboxingzone.com/boxing/b ... htm#quarry

-Rick Farris

[raylawpc]

Cheers, Hammer. Bruce was too brave for his own good and just couldn't stand the thought of life minus boxing.

PS: Imagine what Ron Lyle would do today.

Ron Lyle . . . the only guy I ever wanted Ali to beat.

Why's that?

Personality conflict, I guess. I worked his corner with Bobby Lewis in Oklahoma City back in 1973 when he fought Lou Bailey. He fouled his way to victory over Bailey when he really didn't need to. (I mean, Lou Bailey beat Ron Lyle? - come on . . .) And I just didn't like him. It was normally a treat to work with out-of-town greats like Carlos Ortiz, Kenny Norton, et al., but not Lyle. I just didn't like him.

[Rick Farris]

Lyle . . .

One Ron Lyle fight I will always remember (aside from his loss to Quarry) is his explosive match with George Foreman.
Big George was lucky to get out of that one.

Foreman vs. Lyle:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=96KfeAFakak


-Rick Farris

[raylawpc]

It was amazing to me that the cautious guy I saw against Lou Bailey became a lion against George Foreman.

The problem with Lyle in the Bailey fight was that his confidence was completely shot by his loss to Quarry. I remember Bobby Lewis begging him between rounds to "open up and get this guy out of here." Not counting the two or three times Bailey went down from getting hit in the balls, Bailey was down five or six times legitimately, but Lyle couldn't (or wouldn't) follow up. In a way, it was surreal to watch.

And the plan wasn't to carry Bailey. Lyle's management asked Pat O'Grady to specifically match him with Bailey, whom they expected Lyle to easily and quickly knockout. They hoped a quick KO would help restore his confidence. Uhhhh. What was it Steinbeck wrote about the best laid plans of mice and men . . . .?

I'll never forget the fans booing Lyle when the decision was annoounced for his uninspired performance and deliberate fouls.

[Rick Farris]

It was amazing to me that the cautious guy I saw against Lou Bailey became a lion against George Foreman.

The problem with Lyle in the Bailey fight was that his confidence was completely shot by his loss to Quarry. I remember Bobby Lewis begging him between rounds to "open up and get this guy out of here." Not counting the two or three times Bailey went down from getting hit in the balls, Bailey was down five or six times legitimately, but Lyle couldn't (or wouldn't) follow up. In a way, it was surreal to watch.

And the plan wasn't to carry Bailey. Lyle's management asked Pat O'Grady to specifically match him with Bailey, whom they expected Lyle to easily and quickly knockout. They hoped a quick KO would help restore his confidence. Uhhhh. What was it Steinbeck wrote about the best laid plans of mice and men . . . .?

I'll never forget the fans booing Lyle when the decision was annoounced for his uninspired performance and deliberate fouls.

That was interesting, Tom. Thank you.

[dagosd2000]

Maria Esty and Emile Griffith

[Rick Farris]

"IF" . . .

If the Jets beat the Colts, Mark Sanchez will become the first rookie QB in history to start in the Super Bowl.

[kikibalt]

"IF" . . .

If the Jets beat the Colts, Mark Sanchez will become the first rookie QB in history to start in the Super Bowl.

I'll be rooting for the JETS....

[Rick Farris]

"IF" . . .

If the Jets beat the Colts, Mark Sanchez will become the first rookie QB in history to start in the Super Bowl.

I'll be rooting for the JETS....

Me too....

[Rick Farris]

Not long ago, Matt Leinert won the Heisman, and walked on water at SC. Mark Sanchez sat on the bench and waited.
He finally took over, did OK, but left SC for the NFL a year early. Ballsy move. Man, did it pay off, regardless of what happens.
Where is Matt Leinert today? Sanchez? DD

[bennie]

It was amazing to me that the cautious guy I saw against Lou Bailey became a lion against George Foreman.

The problem with Lyle in the Bailey fight was that his confidence was completely shot by his loss to Quarry. I remember Bobby Lewis begging him between rounds to "open up and get this guy out of here." Not counting the two or three times Bailey went down from getting hit in the balls, Bailey was down five or six times legitimately, but Lyle couldn't (or wouldn't) follow up. In a way, it was surreal to watch.

And the plan wasn't to carry Bailey. Lyle's management asked Pat O'Grady to specifically match him with Bailey, whom they expected Lyle to easily and quickly knockout. They hoped a quick KO would help restore his confidence. Uhhhh. What was it Steinbeck wrote about the best laid plans of mice and men . . . .?

I'll never forget the fans booing Lyle when the decision was annoounced for his uninspired performance and deliberate fouls.

That was interesting, Tom. Thank you.

Is this Lou "Hot Dog" Bailey. I think he fought Mike Spinks in Mike's debut. I remember Spinks being quite complimentary afterwards, almost like Bailey had spooked him a little.

[kikibalt]

Lopez ready to test his new classmate
By Robert Morales, boxing columnist
sgvt.com

It was less than four months ago - on Oct. 10 - that Juan Manuel Lopez found himself in the fight of his life against one Rogers Mtagwa at Madison Square Garden in NewYork.

Lopez was defending his junior featherweight world title for the fifth - and as it turned out - final time.

He retained his belt with a unanimous decision. Scores were 116-111, 115-111 and 114-113.

But Lopez was hurt several times in the championship rounds, and he was really punished in the 12th, when one had to wonder if he would be able to finish the fight.

Lopez has now moved up to featherweight, where he will challenge Steven Luevano tonight for his World Boxing Organization title at Madison Square Garden. HBO will televise the card, which will include Yuriorkis Gamboa (16-0, 14 KOs) of Cuba defending his World Boxing Association featherweight belt against Mtagwa (26-13-2, 18 KOs).

"He was in big trouble. I think if he stayed at 122 pounds (junior featherweight), he would eventually have gotten knocked out down the road because he was having real difficulty with that weight," said Bob Arum, who promotes Lopez and Luevano.

Featherweight is 126 pounds.

"It's just four pounds, but if you have difficulty making 122, but you make it, it's a whole different world having a four-pound cushion," Arum said.

Lopez agreed with Arum that he had no choice but to move up, or risk being stretched.

"That is true," Lopez said by phone

earlier this week. "I had no more strength at 122. It was very hard to make 122, so in the fight I just didn't have it anymore. Right now I'm getting close to (making) 126 and I can't even fathom how I made 122."
Lopez would have been stripped of his title had he not made weight, and he actually weighed 121 for Mtagwa, a pound below the limit.

The move up was inevitable, as Lopez has a goal of becoming the first Puerto Rican to win titles in four different weight classes.

Achieving that lofty status takes having the smarts to know when it's time to climb another rung on the ladder. And from the sound of it, Lopez has plenty.

"I grew up in one of those residential neighborhoods where there are a lot of homes for the poor people," said Lopez, who was born Rio Piedra, Puerto Rico, and lives in Caguas. "We didn't have a lot. My father and mother taught me very well and they showed me the right path.

"That is what I have tried to do in my life, follow the right path."

That path will include Luevano (37-1-1, 15 KOs), a fellow southpaw who has made five title defenses and has fought as high as super featherweight. Luevano isn't a heavy hitter, but he is a fine boxer and he did knock down Nicky Cook five times when he won the title via 11th-round knockout in July 2007.

Robert Garcia, Luevano's trainer, said last week Lopez has never faced anyone like Luevano.

"I know how good and technically sound he is," Lopez said about Luevano. "I study him real well. I follow him, I've seen him fight. But I don't think he has ever fought a guy like me, either. A guy who is aggressive, who hits this hard.

"We are both in for a tough fight."

Whereas Lopez will be facing a superior boxer, Luevano will be in front of someone who could be a heavier hitter. Lopez has a much higher knockout ratio, having stopped 24 of 27 opponents inside the distance, but it remains to be seen if he will carry that power up a division.

"He has a strong right hook," said Luevano, of La Puente. "I have to be cautious with that right hook."

And Lopez (27-0) has to be careful he doesn't finish this fight the way he did against Mtagwa. He took a few hits in the media after surviving Mtagwa's late rush. And even if he doesn't admit it, Lopez also has the pressure of fighting someone of Mexican descent in front of a Puerto Rican-dominated crowd. Puerto Rican fans - best described as delightfully fanatical - don't like their fighters losing to any Mexican because of a long-standing rivalry.

"I think I didn't do as well as I could have in my last fight," said Lopez, 26. "I feel I owe this public something. I'm not even thinking of Mexican or anything. I'm just going to give them a lot, and I have to be better than last time."

[bennie]

If the rumour-mill is true and Amir Khan is about to dump a major world belt into the bin (shades of Lloyd Honeyghan, although he held two others), where does that leave the prodigious Bolton youngster? Apart from the bleedin' obvious, it leaves him dreaming of bigger things. Khan is planning to drop his WBA belt because he wants to "crack" America, he says - just as his friend Naseem Hamed wanted to crack America several years ago. This perennial British boxing 'need' usually always ends in disaster. We all remember Randolph Turpin, Ken Buchanan, Barry McGuigan...
As for Naz, the gifted, outrageous Sheffield puncher was simply and inexplicably unable to shine in the States. The image of his mouth hanging down in a look of shock and semi-desperation as Kevin Kelley chased him all round a Madison Square Garden ring lingers in the memory and proved Hamed's first taste of America, and it would soon look – and taste – so much worse. We only have to think of his 'fight' with Cesar Soto to know that, a man beaten years earlier by Duke McKenzie. Yes, the Prince overcame Kelly and Soto, and he toppled a goalkeeper by the name of Augie Sanchez in spectacular style – but only after Sanchez had tagged him too many times for comfort. Marco Antonio Barrera, already on his way to training camp in Big Bear Mountain, knew that Naseem's reflexes were going. He was Hamed's next US opponent.
In a stroke of genius by promoter F rank Warren and matchmaker Dean Powell, Barrera was brought over to redeem Khan last year in Manchester, and Andreas Kotelnik, the adept but light-hitting WBA light-welterweight champion, soon followed as a Khan victim. Now a major world champion, trained by Freddie Roach out of a top Los Angeles gym, strong and comfortable at 140 pounds, Khan looked a different animal from the one destroyed in 54 seconds by Colombia’s Breidis Prescott in Manchester in September 2008. He looked ready for another puncher, an Argentine puncher by the name of Marcos Maidana who had been outscored by Kotelnik. Of course, LA rats were now whispering, whispering that Khan had done it all himself, that he could make more money with them, that he didn't need a nobody like Maidana, that he should forsake the big belt.
Oscar De La Hoya, The Golden Boy, all through as a millionaire fighter, knew he could still line his pockets with a dedicated, lightning-fast, brilliant-boxing, 23-year-old like Khan, a new Golden Boy. Then came the announcement: Khan was relocating pemanently to the States with Golden Boy Promotions, contemplating a fight with Paulie Malignaggi, a flashy, talented New Yorker who cannot break an egg, and one with Ricky Hatton, a man who has already pounded Malignaggi but was coldcocked by Manny Pacquiao.
Khan had just broken up a winning team.
Roach remains on board but his glaring absence from the corner on the night Alex Arthur – a man he was training - was violated in five rounds by Michael Gomez in the Autumn of 2003 is impossible to forget. We all know Roach still has bigger fish to fry. We all know that Khan gives away the vital edge of home advantage to almost every fighter he faces in the future. We all know that Khan has yet even to make one appearance in the States.
To me, Maidana in Manchester is looking a far better option.

[dagosd2000]

The perception of money . . .


Some people have things out of proportion when it comes to what boxers make fighting professionally. For more than three decades, high profile prizefighters can make purses in the millions. Of course, these are the best of the best, and most who have earned million dollar purses, usually leave the sport in financial turmoil.

A film director I know once asked me, how did you end up in this business, what did you do with your money.
I explained that I wasn't a top rated fighter, never made $million purses.
"How much did you make for a fight?", was the question.

"Well, I made $80. for my pro debut, a five-rounder. I was then paid $75. for my second fight, a four-rounder."

He was surprised and shocked that somebody would risk their health trading blows with a pro for pocket change.
I assured him it got better. When I started fighting six-rounders, I was paid $150. and when I fought a six-rounder on a major title card, they'd push it up to $250. I fought an eight-rounder once for $300. I fought a bout scheduled for ten in National City for $500.

Professional boxing put gas in my car, gave me some pocket change, and left me a fortune in great memories.
When I look at some of my contemporaries today, the guys who made the big money, I realize that things worked out pretty well for me.
I took something from boxing, boxing took nothing from me.
I didn't leave boxing with a winning record, but I left a winner, in my mind. I didn't feel that way until recently.


-Rick Farris

[scartissue]

You guys remember Dick Mastro's early '80s monthly publication?

I remember the Boxing Record. I think he started publishing it about 1972 or 1973. O'Grady used to get it and I'd read it at O'Grady's office. Another great publication in the 1970s came out of New York - Flash Gordon's "Tonight's Boxing Program." Did any of you California guys get that one? It was maybe the best boxing publication in the 1970s, although it definitely had a East Coast slant.

Tom, not only do I remember Flash Gordon's publication, I subscribed to it in the '80s. Man, he was verbose and uncaring who he would offend and that was his magic. Anyone who never saw it, let me give you a smattering of it's content. Picture all of us sitting around downing a bottle of suds talking boxing. Of course there would be no holds barred on our language or opinions and that was what was in Flash Gordon's paper. He would refer to a promoter or a referee or a fighter as a j**off or an a**hole if it flew in the face of what he thought was just. Nobody knows what happened to old Flash, but something tells me he's flipping someone the bird right about now.

Scartissue

[bennie]

Flash nearly 'broke' King. You cannot say anymore of the man's worth.