The Drednaught/Super Heavyweight 'Division'

[dempseyfire]

The White Hope era produced a large crop of athletic 'super heavyweight' sized fighters, from your adonis glass jaws like Dan Daily to skilled boxer-punchers like McCarty and Fulton. You can see footage of Big Bill tate at 6-6 240 lbs gliding and jabbing around the ring. Godfrey was a very large and skilled big man. And despite his faults, Carnera was pretty athletic and mobile for a 270 lb man . . .clearly as athletic as your McClines,Whitakers, and Jeffersons.

Bill Tate is a good shout as an early "super heavy." Not sure about the White Hopes though, most, though over 6' 3", were well under 230lbs

That's because they were in-shape and most in their early-mid 20s.
Lewis, Vitali and Wlad all weighed in the 220s-230s in their mid 20s.

[BroughtonRulesRefuge]

Lewis, Vitali and Wlad all weighed in the 220s-230s in their mid 20s.

- Wlad was 243 on the eve of his 24th birthday against Wolfgramm.

He doesn't stray much from that baseline.

[Robinson]

Robinson, puuleeez. No-one's going back to 1910 . . .the top heavyweight fights of just 10 years ago were more active and exciting . . .what was the latest heavyweight bout that even had the action of a Tua-Maskaev? Those guys were not flailing around gasping for air like McCline-Peter or playing peek-a-boo like Wlad-Ibragimov.

DF
I agree with you there....I shall be honest that I watch very little of more
recent HW action. This is partly because I have piles of DVDs of 'older' fights
to get through...

[BroughtonRulesRefuge]

I shall be honest that I watch very little of more
recent HW action. This is partly because I have piles of DVDs of 'older' fights
to get through...

- Too bad you missed "in shape small heavy" Dominick Guinn's recent performance.

Dom a former undefeated, touted high ranking contender had a reputation for low punch output which has proven to be his downfall from the ranks. He has a predilection for whacking out undefeated prospects though as here's his latest victim, Lethal Johnnie White, 21-0, 18 KO.

Johnnie a first cuz to Eddie Chambers as seen here, perhaps resting his own piles:

[HomicideHenry]

http://www.boxrec.com/list_bouts.php?hu ... &cat=boxer

^^^This guy was one of the earliest 'super heavyweights' I can think of

I'll pour out some more big HW's that dont exactly border on freakishness, if that's even at all plausible

[Brute]

"Two Ton" Tony Galento was 5'9" tall and weighed anything up to 247 pounds. In his second last fight in 1943 he scored a second round knockout against professional wrestler Fred Blassie. The boxer outweighed the wrestler by 20 pounds.

Tony did manage 80 wins and 5 draws in 111 fights.

[HomicideHenry]

That wasnt a legit fight though was it? Blassie never was a pro boxer was he? To best of my knowledge he did amatuer boxing, but nothing else.

[Brute]

That wasnt a legit fight though was it? Blassie never was a pro boxer was he? To best of my knowledge he did amatuer boxing, but nothing else.

That was not the point. Could you imagine a professional boxer now being 20 pounds heavier than a professional wrestler? The fight is on Galento's record. It may have been put on to raise money for the war effort. I do not know the circumstances.

[HomicideHenry]

When I think super heavyweight, though, my mind springs up guys like Mike 'The Giant' White. Galento, imo, wasn't a super heavyweight, let alone being billed as a fat ass. His body stype was an illusion, as he was one of the hardest hitting men in the division, and his left hook was probably the best of the heavyweights in the era he fought.

What strikes me, with Galento's record is the gaps inbetween fights. It makes me wonder if these weren't exhibitions, or if maybe Galento (and countless others) had 'missing' bouts through out the years. Blassie, though, I think would have given Galento a decent contest, considering he actually was an amatuer boxer before ever being a wrestler. And what I mean by that is, I feel Blassie would have been a legit exhibition, and not a worked match.

[HomicideHenry]

http://www.boxrec.com/list_bouts.php?hu ... &cat=boxer

^^^Here's another 'super heavyweight' though at 7'2" this may very well border too much on the carnival act, than sport; but he did hold a draw against contender James J. Parker in the era of Marciano.

"Big" John Tate was another, who I think qualified for 'super heavyweight' status. At 6'4" and weighing in anywhere between 230-290+ pounds, he captured the WBA title over Gerrie Coetzee and later lost it to Mike Weaver.

[HomicideHenry]

Craig Payne= 317 pounds

Garing Lane= 269 pounds

Joe Siciliano= 313 1/2 pounds

Carl Chancellor= 7'1" 424 pounds

Samuel Panteu= 250+ kilos (550+ pounds)

Frank Finnegan= 6'7" 464 pounds


Though in all fairness, these guys fit more into the obese category than boxers who actually had skill along with the bulk.

Finnegan, if my memory serves me correct, fought in Toughman before ever turning professional, and was billed as the next Butterbean, as his gigantic height and weight proved too much for most local toughs, until he was finally derailed. He wore a kilt to the ring, I believe. Or maybe I am mixing Finnegan up with another man, though he does fit the bill.

[Brute]

When I think super heavyweight, though, my mind springs up guys like Mike 'The Giant' White. Galento, imo, wasn't a super heavyweight, let alone being billed as a fat ass. His body stype was an illusion, as he was one of the hardest hitting men in the division, and his left hook was probably the best of the heavyweights in the era he fought.

What strikes me, with Galento's record is the gaps inbetween fights. It makes me wonder if these weren't exhibitions, or if maybe Galento (and countless others) had 'missing' bouts through out the years. Blassie, though, I think would have given Galento a decent contest, considering he actually was an amatuer boxer before ever being a wrestler. And what I mean by that is, I feel Blassie would have been a legit exhibition, and not a worked match.

Dempsey and Ali fought a lot of exhibitions, but they are not on their BOXREC records. I have a feeling that the fights against Blassie and Zurek (also a wrestler) were to raise money for the War Effort, as his main career seemed to end when the USA entered the war in 1941. Blassie would have been fairly young at the time. I can remember him wrestling in Australia around 1970. Apart from the two wrestlers Galento only had one fight in 1943. He was already playing support roles in movies then. I read somewhere that Jack Dempsey tried to help Galento to beat Louis, but Tony loved his beer too much to stop drinking it so Jack decided it was a lost cause.

[BroughtonRulesRefuge]

I read somewhere that Jack Dempsey tried to help Galento to beat Louis, but Tony loved his beer too much to stop drinking it so Jack decided it was a lost cause.

- Must have transposed the memory.

Jack was quite fond of Louis, fond enough that after visiting his training camp for the Schmeling rematch, he drove away POed at what he saw, and then turned his car around, came back and stormed into the ring as he threw off his jacket.

He then gave Joe a primer on the Schmeling style, which says something since he was also good friends with Schmeling. Of course patriotism cannot be over looked.

As to Galento, supposedly Jack couldn't stand him, and one time jumped into the ring after Galento was demeaning him, and whooped him as only a POed Dempsey knew how to do. See the Cowboy Lutrell fight for how that works when Dempsey lost his temper after being goaded.

BTW, Primo fought two giants in his day. One of them was a fella from Artentine, Santa was his last name I think, and he was something like 6-9, 260 with muscles jumping out all over the place. Had someone gotten to him earlier and learned him how to box, he might've been a contender. Was a decent journeyman.

[Robinson]

Dempsey loved to be amongst it even well after his career.
That is a quality I really like about him. He was happy to
spar a bit with the current crop and offer his advice to these
guys.

[HomicideHenry]

Dempsey liked Louis? I always heard Dempsey arranged a 'white hope' tournament, in which Schmeling was the winner after he defeated Louis. Something that Jack was supposedly fond of, saying it was the best thing to happen in boxing for a long time.

http://www.boxrec.com/list_bouts.php?hu ... &cat=boxer

^^^Joe Santa, seemed like a decent heavyweight, he certainly looked the part of being a monster

Santa also fought an enormous heavyweight named Jack Beasely. Beasely was 403 1/2 pounds when he fought Santa. Oddly enough, though, Beasely usually weighed around 185-190 pounds. I wonder what the story was on him for that dramatic weight gain and loss.

[BroughtonRulesRefuge]

^^^Joe Santa, seemed like a decent heavyweight, he certainly looked the part of being a monster

- Here's what 6-9, 240-265 lbs looks like if your Santa:

[Collins2000]

I read somewhere that Jack Dempsey tried to help Galento to beat Louis, but Tony loved his beer too much to stop drinking it so Jack decided it was a lost cause.

Jack was quite fond of Louis, fond enough that after visiting his training camp for the Schmeling rematch, he drove away POed at what he saw, and then turned his car around, came back and stormed into the ring as he threw off his jacket.

He then gave Joe a primer on the Schmeling style

Can you name your source on this?

Just want to make sure you aren't peddling more of your fantasies, my dear little numpty.

[wouter]

Santa also fought an enormous heavyweight named Jack Beasely. Beasely was 403 1/2 pounds when he fought Santa. Oddly enough, though, Beasely usually weighed around 185-190 pounds. I wonder what the story was on him for that dramatic weight gain and loss.

Beasley suffered from a serious case of typonitis, causing his weight to temporarily balloon to 403 1/2 lbs then suddenly drop down to 183 1/2 lbs.

[HomicideHenry]

thanks for the info there wouter!

[Brute]

I read somewhere that Jack Dempsey tried to help Galento to beat Louis, but Tony loved his beer too much to stop drinking it so Jack decided it was a lost cause.

- Must have transposed the memory.

Jack was quite fond of Louis, fond enough that after visiting his training camp for the Schmeling rematch, he drove away POed at what he saw, and then turned his car around, came back and stormed into the ring as he threw off his jacket.

He then gave Joe a primer on the Schmeling style, which says something since he was also good friends with Schmeling. Of course patriotism cannot be over looked.

As to Galento, supposedly Jack couldn't stand him, and one time jumped into the ring after Galento was demeaning him, and whooped him as only a POed Dempsey knew how to do. See the Cowboy Lutrell fight for how that works when Dempsey lost his temper after being goaded.

BTW, Primo fought two giants in his day. One of them was a fella from Artentine, Santa was his last name I think, and he was something like 6-9, 260 with muscles jumping out all over the place. Had someone gotten to him earlier and learned him how to box, he might've been a contender. Was a decent journeyman.

Whether he could stand Tony or not, Dempsey is recorded as having managed Galento "briefly". Apparently Galento's devil may care attitude towards training ended that partnership. It may also be why Jack could not stand him.

[Ezzard]

I read that Dempsey iced Galento in a sparring match after much goading. Can anyone confirm this?

[HomicideHenry]

I read that Dempsey iced Galento in a sparring match after much goading. Can anyone confirm this?

Story goes that Dempsey came to see Galento train in the gym one day, and seeing how poorly the world title challenger was sparring, he offered to show him a thing or two. What turned out to be a friendly session soon turned into a one sided bruising, as Dempsey was appauled by Galento's technique, and ended up knocking The New Jersey Nightstick from pillar to post. After that first round, Galento got out of the ring.

I must also say, concerning Dempsey's sparring sessions and exhibition matches, that one of my favorite stories was Dempsey's first session with Meyers 'KO' Christener. He hit Christener with an uppercut so hard, that his bottom teeth got drilled into his top teeth and his jaw had to be forced open. This of course, was the Dempsey considering a come back, and not a prime one.

[Robinson]

How can a aged Dempsey school a prime fighter in training for his
title challenge?
Im sure I have read some where of Galento's qualifications as one
of the better, and hardest hitting title challengers.

[dempseyfire]

How can a aged Dempsey school a prime fighter in training for his
title challenge?
Im sure I have read some where of Galento's qualifications as one
of the better, and hardest hitting title challengers.

Robbie boy, there you go exaggerating again, as this is clearly a little swipe at myself. I have defended Galento in cases where people dismissed him as a bum and cited his incredible one-punch knockout power. But going from that to claiming he was "one of the "better title challengers in history" . . .please cite where myself or anyone else ever made such a claim.

[HomicideHenry]

Galento was an ATG dirty fighter, if anything. But his left hook, arguably, was 2nd to Louis's during the era. It wasnt pretty or educated, but when it landed, more times than not the other man wasnt getting up.