BoxRec

Froch took so many flush, clean shots its not even funny.

And he always will whoever he fights.

Calzaghe would have peppered him all night long and left him chasing shadows.

However, he makes for good telly.

I'd take a softer next fight against a second tier American like Lacy if I was MH.

But then I'm not MH or CF.

Lets hope Frochy can play centre-midfield against Southampton on Saturday.

I think he was out of sorts and below par vs Taylor. Capable of much better, fight will improve him. I think he needs to put more oomph in the jab and whack the body a lot more.

Calzaghe might bring the pepper, but Froch will blow him away. Joe's not interested in competitive fights.

If Calzaghe was in Froch's boat, ie winning title last year, he could have fought a middleweight in 1st defence (Eastman?), look good knocking out nobodies and pick on Taylor when he's about to retire - at home, of course - in a couple of years.

No wonder Froch looks the more vulnerable, as he takes bigger risks.

Calzaghe and Hatton also almost got beaten, in their 1st big US fights.

Joe is too experienced and it'd have to be at light heavy where Froch won't hit as hard. BUT,

I saw Joe back off in the last min of the Jones fight. He took a body shot and was visibly hurt and ran, trying to look casual.

While Joe has the class, I'm not sure how much he'd want a tear up with someone ambitious. All those fights he's had, the chin problems v Hopkins/Jones, the weak hands...

Calzaghe won't dent Froch with that semi-contact style. Froch will deck him with full contact attacking.

IMO if Froch settles down, beats someone like Bute, then ppl will believe in Carl "The Beast" Froch.

Carl looked a bit pathetic calling out Calzaghe like that. Its a fight he couldnt possibly win

he brings absoluteluy nothing to the table that Joe hasnt seen. Not one thing. The fight would eb at 175lbs because Froch still has 0 negotiating power and that would lessen his already slim chances. If MH can guarantee him £5m + he should come out of retirement, beat him up and collect his pension fund. And I'm not even that big on Joe but I know differences in class when I see it

Perhaps if I saw clear improvement in Carl's style as he stepped up in class I would think he could raise his game. This dude is so sloppy I think he would have fought Gerald McLellan with his hands by his pants. I almost felt sorry fro McCracken. If you had played a drinking game everytime he told Froch to put his hands up you'd still have hangover today.

As for REALISTIC fights that Carl can actually win I would try and bring Bika. Wouldnt cost that much, would definately come over. has the Contender angle, is a legit top 10 fighter, WBC ranked and would make for an exciting fight. Plus if Carl could stop him, something Clazaghe nor Bute didnt come close to doing, he could make a statement.

One active fighter he should avoid is Hopkins. He could fight Roy Jones but then that would be cynical match up and I think Roy would landd a few too many times anyway. Carl would win though

lefthook, you are in cloud cuckoo land my friend!

Biko? Couldn't quite make it so entered the contender and credited himself well but will never be taken seriously despite some tough wins. Plus Carl will not help his cause by beating Calzaghe victims.

'Carl couldn't possibly win?'. Many, many, many people here said he couldn't possibly beat Taylor - they've all disappeared now!!! Joe was a good fighter, but due to poor advice and an inner fear explained in his autobiography (if you read between the lines) Joe never took a chance or made the effort to please the fans. He enjoyed a decent career based on a) staying healthy - nothing wrong with that and b) making as much money as possible - again, nothing wrong with that - Americans have done it for years - win a 'world' title but don't leave home to defend it.

Difference with Carl is he is a real WORLD champ who will go anywhere and do anything to be proved the best - no one can argue

My mistake. Carl does have a sloght punchers chance. The rest stands though. He would have to shorten up his punches to land though. That uppercut he throws in slow motion was abit embassring. Did it land once?

Re Bika. How can you say that Carl shouldnt fight former Calzaghe foes when every man and their dog is saying that he should fight Kessler who incidentally is a former Calzaghe victim

Autobarn wrote: Calzaghe and Hatton also almost got beaten, in their 1st big US fights.

Difference with Calzaghe was that he corrected his errors straight after the knockdown. Carl didnt, he continued to be outclassed, apart from the last few rounds.

finchy36 wrote:
Many, many, many people here said he couldn't possibly beat Taylor - they've all disappeared now!!!

This is a fallacy in my opinion. Nobody with more than 5 minutes of boxing knowledge would think that Froch didin't have a chance. He wasn't fighting prime Roy Jones was he

Autobarn wrote:Joe is too experienced and it'd have to be at light heavy where Froch won't hit as hard. BUT,

I saw Joe back off in the last min of the Jones fight. He took a body shot and was visibly hurt and ran, trying to look casual.

While Joe has the class, I'm not sure how much he'd want a tear up with someone ambitious. All those fights he's had, the chin problems v Hopkins/Jones, the weak hands...

Calzaghe won't dent Froch with that semi-contact style. Froch will deck him with full contact attacking.

IMO if Froch settles down, beats someone like Bute, then ppl will believe in Carl "The Beast" Froch.

Joe was hurt?! Where does this rubbish come from! Only reason he played with him for the latter part of the fight was probably mercy.

Calzaghe - won't happen, but I'd fancy Carl to deck him and finish the job - a feat old men BHop and RJ could not accomplish. JC would probably box Froch's head off for much of the fight, but, with his increasingly fragile punch resistance, Joe would be floored at some point. Joe would be wise not to take the bait.

Pavlik - MH is allegedly talking to Arum about making this. Can't see Pavlik moving to 168, though, before unification at 160 with Abraham later this year. That fight will be Abraham's last at 160, so Froch-Pavlik and Froch-Abraham are mouth-watering prospects for 2010.

Green - Probably the best and most winnable fight for Carl's next one. An exciting fight while it lasts and not likely to jeopardize a "super" fight with Kessler/Abraham/Pavlik next year.

Bring them all on. Bute, Kessler, Pavlik, Abraham, Mundine....after his magnifcent win over Taylor, Froch might just end up smoking the lot of them.

Froch, more than any other Brtish world champion i can think of, deserves a home defence and a hero's welcome, but Froch is a special breed and while the goings good (or in Carl's case, phenominal) he maybe better off gunning down all the top boys as quick as possible.

Taylor was another quantam leap after Pascal and Froch has triumphed in amazing style again. I'd love to see Carl boldly go where Calslappy dared not to, and rip Bute's IBF title from him next.

I undestand the caution some posters are showing, but Froch's type come along so rarely, it should be enjoyed to the full. Bollocks to the quantity (20 laughable defence), feel the quality of the excitement.

lefthook82 wrote:Carl looked a bit pathetic calling out Calzaghe like that. Its a fight he couldnt possibly win

he brings absoluteluy nothing to the table that Joe hasnt seen. Not one thing. The fight would eb at 175lbs because Froch still has 0 negotiating power and that would lessen his already slim chances. If MH can guarantee him £5m + he should come out of retirement, beat him up and collect his pension fund. And I'm not even that big on Joe but I know differences in class when I see it

Perhaps if I saw clear improvement in Carl's style as he stepped up in class I would think he could raise his game. This dude is so sloppy I think he would have fought Gerald McLellan with his hands by his pants. I almost felt sorry fro McCracken. If you had played a drinking game everytime he told Froch to put his hands up you'd still have hangover today.

As for REALISTIC fights that Carl can actually win I would try and bring Bika. Wouldnt cost that much, would definately come over. has the Contender angle, is a legit top 10 fighter, WBC ranked and would make for an exciting fight. Plus if Carl could stop him, something Clazaghe nor Bute didnt come close to doing, he could make a statement.

One active fighter he should avoid is Hopkins. He could fight Roy Jones but then that would be cynical match up and I think Roy would landd a few too many times anyway. Carl would win though

joe was carefully matched, never took the kind of gamble that froch took. the biggest difference between the 2 is that froch is willing to take risks

look how shit the calzaghe of the reid and starie fights looked. you think THAT calzaghe would have betaen someone as good as taylor?

ok currently there is the gulf in experience, but don't you forget how bad calzaghe was in the first few years of his title reign with the infamous WBO. imagine if that czlaghe stepped up. would he have had any late power to bail him out? like fvck.

every fight, ian darke used to say "Calzaghe needs a big performance, like the one against Chris Eubank, a fight that was some time ago..."

hatton and joe both looke deeply uncomfortable in their first stateside fights. froch will get used to fighting away, and will smoke some US boots. he certainly won't mince his way thru easy title fights.

Autobarn wrote:

lefthook82 wrote:Carl looked a bit pathetic calling out Calzaghe like that. Its a fight he couldnt possibly win

he brings absoluteluy nothing to the table that Joe hasnt seen. Not one thing. The fight would eb at 175lbs because Froch still has 0 negotiating power and that would lessen his already slim chances. If MH can guarantee him £5m + he should come out of retirement, beat him up and collect his pension fund. And I'm not even that big on Joe but I know differences in class when I see it

Perhaps if I saw clear improvement in Carl's style as he stepped up in class I would think he could raise his game. This dude is so sloppy I think he would have fought Gerald McLellan with his hands by his pants. I almost felt sorry fro McCracken. If you had played a drinking game everytime he told Froch to put his hands up you'd still have hangover today.

As for REALISTIC fights that Carl can actually win I would try and bring Bika. Wouldnt cost that much, would definately come over. has the Contender angle, is a legit top 10 fighter, WBC ranked and would make for an exciting fight. Plus if Carl could stop him, something Clazaghe nor Bute didnt come close to doing, he could make a statement.

One active fighter he should avoid is Hopkins. He could fight Roy Jones but then that would be cynical match up and I think Roy would landd a few too many times anyway. Carl would win though

look how shit the calzaghe of the reid and starie fights looked. you think THAT calzaghe would have betaen someone as good as taylor?

Look how shit Calzaghe was against Evans Ashira. That translated into a poor performance in his very next fight v Lacy. Oh wait....

That the difference between the two. Carl will fight the same whoeevr he fights. Hands low, plodding forward, defending with his face, trying to throw streetfighter style dragon punches out of range. He has been doing that as far back as when I first saw him against Westerman and probably even fiurther back.

He has his biggest win in his carrer and there were more questions than answers. That sort of tells its own story

finchy36 wrote:
'Carl couldn't possibly win?'. Many, many, many people here said he couldn't possibly beat Taylor - they've all disappeared now!!!
Difference with Carl is he is a real WORLD champ who will go anywhere and do anything to be proved the best - no one can argue

Well Froch was 14seconds away from proving those people correct

Why are some people still repeating the myth about Froch`s big punching ... he only got to Taylor when Taylors tank was empty .. did he hurt or wobble Taylor when he was fresh? .. no it was Taylor who put Froch down early and those who say Froch wasn`t hurt then .. Froch was hurt by the punch that made him back off to the ropes .. and hurt and put down by the next big punch .. why do you think he took a knee?

Froch has no option other than to `go anywhere and do anything` , have people also forgot the lack of interest to air Saturdays fight

Lets get it into perspective, Froch is an exciting fighter, big balls, strong as an ox ... but he is no dynamite puncher, and the 1st world class opponent he`s fought had him on the canvass and was very much leading on the scorecards untill the very end ... and this same world class fighter was a couple years past his best .. and a division up from it.

Lacy would be a backwards step. The Americans were over him a long time ago. Kessler makes good sporting sense, but as neither fighter is American OR based in America, it might not garner that much interest. At least Bute is over that neck of the woods. Maybe go for Green in the UK, then Bute over in the States.

Providing he still has his 'O' after that, and Kessler has sorted his business woes, then Froch V Kessler. But you're looking at 2nd half of 2010 for that and anything could have happened by then.

i want to see froch take on mundine in nottingham, then he should go for pavlik, that would be an absolute barnburner...

Will the big fights really happen?

Froch is likely to now face the same problems Calzaghe did for many of those years, who wants to fight him?

Let's be honest, he doesn't draw huge crowds and hasn't got much TV behind him. Would Showtime want to come to Britain for him? Maybe, but it depends of the opponent. Allan Green would be possible, but I bet he wouldn't come to Britain. Bute does good business in Canada in the same way that Ottke did in Germany - why risk that against Froch? The Hungarian WBO guy is Universum, so no way will that happen, which leaves Kessler, who is in dispute with Palle and out of action. I also get the idea that Kessler is more interested in a Pavlik or Abraham fight.

My bet would be an easy voluntary defence followed by a rematch with Taylor in the US, but what would that do for his legacy. It's one thing calling out the big names, it's another actually fighting them. Maybe Pavlik down the line, but Froch would have to take the short end again because no way is Arum making that 50-50.

The fights are more likely to happen (or the next fight at least) because he seems beatable. Green nearly jizzed in his pants at the prospect after seeing Taylor handle Froch so easily (until he had a kip in the 12th!).

So in a bizarre sense, Froch has helped himself by looking a bit average.

Let's not pretedn Froch was light years behind on the scorecards going into the last round.
If he had won the last round without stopping Taylor, he would have lost on a split decision, officially, and the majority of the ringside press and commentators, both home and away had it even closer than the officials.
I had Taylor 2 up going into the 12th.

It was hardly a case of Froch being taken to school like some imply.

Calzaghe is a more talented fighter, but Froch has more ambition than Calzaghe ever had.
He also now has a win that matches any on Joe's record(Hopkins-lucky to get the nod. Jones-he fought the poorest version ever seen. Kessler- very good win, but Kessler has still yet to step into Joe's shoes as the super mid ruler. He hasn't beat anyone on Taylor's level for example. Lacy- Over-rated as we all now know. Taylor took him to school too)

If they ever fought you have to fancy Joe but Froch is one of those fighters that can pull it out the bag.

Personally I wish that Froch would forget all about Joe and get on with his own career. Joe is well retired now and came through to show just how talented he was(eventually) Froch's aim should be to make a name for himself and beating Taylor on his hometurf in your first defence is a great way of going about it.
Keep on in that vein and it will be Calzaghe who is talking about Froch in the future to try and keep his name in the limelight.

I think, and I hope, Froch guns for the big names in the Division. Bute in Canada would be the first fight I would try and make once they are free of mandatories.

Lacy would be detrimental to froch.

Lacy only is successful against fighters with poor footwork/movement.

Froch would get hit too easily by lacy, but although he would ultimately prevail, it would be a bad fight for him cos lacy so barely world top10.

Lacy is not good for froch

lefthook82 wrote:

Autobarn wrote:

lefthook82 wrote:Carl looked a bit pathetic calling out Calzaghe like that. Its a fight he couldnt possibly win

he brings absoluteluy nothing to the table that Joe hasnt seen. Not one thing. The fight would eb at 175lbs because Froch still has 0 negotiating power and that would lessen his already slim chances. If MH can guarantee him £5m + he should come out of retirement, beat him up and collect his pension fund. And I'm not even that big on Joe but I know differences in class when I see it

Perhaps if I saw clear improvement in Carl's style as he stepped up in class I would think he could raise his game. This dude is so sloppy I think he would have fought Gerald McLellan with his hands by his pants. I almost felt sorry fro McCracken. If you had played a drinking game everytime he told Froch to put his hands up you'd still have hangover today.

As for REALISTIC fights that Carl can actually win I would try and bring Bika. Wouldnt cost that much, would definately come over. has the Contender angle, is a legit top 10 fighter, WBC ranked and would make for an exciting fight. Plus if Carl could stop him, something Clazaghe nor Bute didnt come close to doing, he could make a statement.

One active fighter he should avoid is Hopkins. He could fight Roy Jones but then that would be cynical match up and I think Roy would landd a few too many times anyway. Carl would win though

look how shit the calzaghe of the reid and starie fights looked. you think THAT calzaghe would have betaen someone as good as taylor?

Look how shit Calzaghe was against Evans Ashira. That translated into a poor performance in his very next fight v Lacy. Oh wait....

That the difference between the two. Carl will fight the same whoeevr he fights. Hands low, plodding forward, defending with his face, trying to throw streetfighter style dragon punches out of range. He has been doing that as far back as when I first saw him against Westerman and probably even fiurther back.

He has his biggest win in his carrer and there were more questions than answers. That sort of tells its own story

Calzaghe's whole career has more questions than answers

What I'm saying is, Froch has reached world class in his last 2 fights, winning hard fought bouts, a proper step by step learning curve. When did Joe reach world class proper - 2006 (Lacy), 2000-2002 (Brewer, Woodhall)?

The Joe of the Reid and Starie fights was terrible. There was a big question just when exactly Joe was world class. Winning the WBO title didn't make him world class. This guy has gone through entire fights without landing a real scoring blow.

Joe has a great record, and this is his gimmick. And he's definitely picked up a few things along the way. He looked great in the 2 unification fights and he's a major British fighter/talent. But Joe is NOT as god as the record suggests.

Froch-as-rookie-champ is better than Calzaghe-as-rookie-champ. Calzaghe has a massive advantage in experience now (though believe me, he didn't look experienced at all vs Bika, Manfredo, Ashira, Salem - anything but) but he is old, and a hungry Froch will knock him out. Froch might be behind but he'll take that chin.

Baffles me why ppl don't remember that Joe nearly lost to Reid. Froch gets stick for KOing Taylor while behind. Nor do they remmeber how uncomfortable Calzaghe and Hatton looked in dangerous US world title debuts.

gobbles wrote:Will the big fights really happen?

Froch is likely to now face the same problems Calzaghe did for many of those years, who wants to fight him?

Let's be honest, he doesn't draw huge crowds and hasn't got much TV behind him. Would Showtime want to come to Britain for him? Maybe, but it depends of the opponent. Allan Green would be possible, but I bet he wouldn't come to Britain. Bute does good business in Canada in the same way that Ottke did in Germany - why risk that against Froch? The Hungarian WBO guy is Universum, so no way will that happen, which leaves Kessler, who is in dispute with Palle and out of action. I also get the idea that Kessler is more interested in a Pavlik or Abraham fight.

My bet would be an easy voluntary defence followed by a rematch with Taylor in the US, but what would that do for his legacy. It's one thing calling out the big names, it's another actually fighting them. Maybe Pavlik down the line, but Froch would have to take the short end again because no way is Arum making that 50-50.

Showtime have televised and are interested in Froch, Bute & contenders Ward, Dirrell, Green.
TV want value for money fights and dangerous comp - Froch has the right style / attitude for this. Only problem seems to be Bute and his bloody Bellend Centre and home cooking.

No way does Froch have the same problems as Calzaghe getting opponents. If they won't come to him, he'll go to them. Froch's mandatory will likely be the Ward-Miranda winner. Hope it's Miranda as he is more likely to travel. Even Ward isn't very big in America.

Thing about Pavlik is, he has NOTHING at middleweight. No worthy challengers - will HBO put up with that? There isn't even the easy Duddy cash in. Pavlik will have to move up to get his money, vs someone good I would think. I doubt Pavlik-Abraham happens as AA is a corpse at the weight.

Looks bright for Froch, to me anyway. Can't see it being as difficult to make the fights as it has been over the last 9 frustrating months.

Pavlik has his fight with Mora coming up, then after that he has the options of Arthur Abraham, Anthony Mundine (provided Mundine beats Geale) and Paul Williams. So there are a few names, but if he can't get those guys then I agree, moving up is the only thing to do. If he does move up, I'm sure Bob Arum would prefer Froch to Kessler, Bute or Balszay.

Autobarn wrote:

gobbles wrote:Will the big fights really happen?

Froch is likely to now face the same problems Calzaghe did for many of those years, who wants to fight him?

Let's be honest, he doesn't draw huge crowds and hasn't got much TV behind him. Would Showtime want to come to Britain for him? Maybe, but it depends of the opponent. Allan Green would be possible, but I bet he wouldn't come to Britain. Bute does good business in Canada in the same way that Ottke did in Germany - why risk that against Froch? The Hungarian WBO guy is Universum, so no way will that happen, which leaves Kessler, who is in dispute with Palle and out of action. I also get the idea that Kessler is more interested in a Pavlik or Abraham fight.

My bet would be an easy voluntary defence followed by a rematch with Taylor in the US, but what would that do for his legacy. It's one thing calling out the big names, it's another actually fighting them. Maybe Pavlik down the line, but Froch would have to take the short end again because no way is Arum making that 50-50.

Showtime have televised and are interested in Froch, Bute & contenders Ward, Dirrell, Green.
TV want value for money fights and dangerous comp - Froch has the right style / attitude for this. Only problem seems to be Bute and his bloody Bellend Centre and home cooking.

No way does Froch have the same problems as Calzaghe getting opponents. If they won't come to him, he'll go to them. Froch's mandatory will likely be the Ward-Miranda winner. Hope it's Miranda as he is more likely to travel. Even Ward isn't very big in America.

Thing about Pavlik is, he has NOTHING at middleweight. No worthy challengers - will HBO put up with that? There isn't even the easy Duddy cash in. Pavlik will have to move up to get his money, vs someone good I would think. I doubt Pavlik-Abraham happens as AA is a corpse at the weight.

Looks bright for Froch, to me anyway. Can't see it being as difficult to make the fights as it has been over the last 9 frustrating months.

Miranda would be an entertaining fight and build up, but I hope Ward does a number on him in their eliminator. It would set up a Ward-Froch fight nicely- US and Uk collide yet again, both unbeaten etc...

I want Miranda to knock Ward out.

Ward showed a terrible chin in one of his early fights but is very quick and agile.