BoxRec

BIGMARK wrote:YES he may be making an ass of himself but he does have a point and although it wasnt the worst performence by a world champion it was pretty poor by Froch.

jamesmcdonnell wrote:

BIGMARK wrote:forget this is big month Enzo and look at Froch's performence because he has a point.

Taylor is a class act - Froch was fighting on the biggest stage in front of a hostile crowd, and he still managed to knock taylor out. If that's a crap peformance, then what was Calzaghe's against the limited Kabary Salem fighting at home with every conceivable advantage.

The only comparable performance is against Kessler, but even then, Calzaghe had home advantage.

The one time Calzaghe stepped into the lions Den, against Hopkins, Calzaghe looked like absolute dogshit, and was lucky to get the win.

banjo wrote:Enzo comes across as a clown, has done since the Lacy fight.

Coco wrote:Enzo won that award on merit

metropol wrote:Who Is enzo training now that is a dcent prospect ? Cleverly? Anyone else?

observer1 wrote:

bigjack wrote:The reason Calzaghe was never in that type of contest is because he is far superior to froch and all his rivals,you can say what you want about him being protected and avoiding people,but i'm sure you would agree that he had great skills,fantastic stamina,granite chin,yes he slapped but when he hits people they go down,especially before his hand were so bad,and he never used his head to block punches

Granite Chin?

Being knocked down against 43 year old Hopkins and 40 year old Roy Jones, who are both way way passed it, and who were never known to knock down their opponents, means Joe has a granite chin?

Oh i do say, it's quite the contrary

tobyh5 wrote:Well I do not disagree with him at all. This board is full of bitter keyboard jockeys who have to hate one fighter if they like another, totally incapable of liking two and giving both credit. I see no neutral common sense and truth talking. It is all either Carl Froch is a bum and was shite or Joe was a slapping idiot who fought bums.

You all cheapen your own arguments when you come out with such twisted extreme words that are clearly rubbish. To portray Joe Calzaghe as some sort of bum or to say the same about Froch speaks more of your own personal inability to seperate your emotions from your judgement than of the truth of the individual fighters abilities.

I will say that I admire both men and can see many attributes in both. I respect Froch for going to the US in his first defence but talking about the greatness of his opponent is wrong because Taylor was seen as a lame duck champion not so long ago and although mixed in high class has got a very mixed record at that class. To big up him fighting Taylor in the first place and use it to degrade Joe is stupid as it was a mandatory. He deserves respect for fighting a tough guy in the US without a doubt, he deserves respect for pulling out the win also BUT it cannot be ignored that he struggled and as Enzo said made numerous terrible mistakes and had Taylor not run out of steam would have lost a lopsided decision. He lost 35 minutes of a 36 minute contest.

As for Joe. He deserves respect for mixing in world class for over 10 years even if there are dotted in there some real dodgy opponents. He deserves respect though for how much superior he proved than all of them. He showed toward the end of his career that he had what it took all along when he beat Lacy and Kessler and to call Lacy a bum is a retrospective statement which is easy to make AFTER the event as he was not viewed that way before the fight. Joe deserves critiscism for being so reluctant to take the tough challenges for much of his career but that does not detract from a very good run at the top of the division. He was the best in his division with no doubt and proved that by the time he retired.

Stop being childish and saying outlandish statements which portray YOU in a bad light.

One more thing, to have a pop at JC for Thornberry and some of the others is justified however that has nothing to do with Froch and something Joe did wrong does not make Froch more of a fighter than he is. Judge him on his achievements and not as a comparision. Lets look at Froch when his career is over as he may have fought Taylor (mandatory and had zero other options) in his first defence, well lets see what he does for the rest of his reign as you will look a bunch of tools if he goes on to squeeze in a few gimme defences although I am sure you will all justify it

tobyh5 wrote:Well I do not disagree with him at all. This board is full of bitter keyboard jockeys who have to hate one fighter if they like another, totally incapable of liking two and giving both credit. I see no neutral common sense and truth talking. It is all either Carl Froch is a bum and was shite or Joe was a slapping idiot who fought bums.

You all cheapen your own arguments when you come out with such twisted extreme words that are clearly rubbish. To portray Joe Calzaghe as some sort of bum or to say the same about Froch speaks more of your own personal inability to seperate your emotions from your judgement than of the truth of the individual fighters abilities.

I will say that I admire both men and can see many attributes in both. I respect Froch for going to the US in his first defence but talking about the greatness of his opponent is wrong because Taylor was seen as a lame duck champion not so long ago and although mixed in high class has got a very mixed record at that class. To big up him fighting Taylor in the first place and use it to degrade Joe is stupid as it was a mandatory. He deserves respect for fighting a tough guy in the US without a doubt, he deserves respect for pulling out the win also BUT it cannot be ignored that he struggled and as Enzo said made numerous terrible mistakes and had Taylor not run out of steam would have lost a lopsided decision. He lost 35 minutes of a 36 minute contest.

As for Joe. He deserves respect for mixing in world class for over 10 years even if there are dotted in there some real dodgy opponents. He deserves respect though for how much superior he proved than all of them. He showed toward the end of his career that he had what it took all along when he beat Lacy and Kessler and to call Lacy a bum is a retrospective statement which is easy to make AFTER the event as he was not viewed that way before the fight. Joe deserves critiscism for being so reluctant to take the tough challenges for much of his career but that does not detract from a very good run at the top of the division. He was the best in his division with no doubt and proved that by the time he retired.

Stop being childish and saying outlandish statements which portray YOU in a bad light.

One more thing, to have a pop at JC for Thornberry and some of the others is justified however that has nothing to do with Froch and something Joe did wrong does not make Froch more of a fighter than he is. Judge him on his achievements and not as a comparision. Lets look at Froch when his career is over as he may have fought Taylor (mandatory and had zero other options) in his first defence, well lets see what he does for the rest of his reign as you will look a bunch of tools if he goes on to squeeze in a few gimme defences although I am sure you will all justify it

observer1 wrote:

bigjack wrote:The reason Calzaghe was never in that type of contest is because he is far superior to froch and all his rivals,you can say what you want about him being protected and avoiding people,but i'm sure you would agree that he had great skills,fantastic stamina,granite chin,yes he slapped but when he hits people they go down,especially before his hand were so bad,and he never used his head to block punches

Granite Chin?

Being knocked down against 43 year old Hopkins and 40 year old Roy Jones, who are both way way passed it, and who were never known to knock down their opponents, means Joe has a granite chin?

Oh i do say, it's quite the contrary

Autobarn wrote:

bigjack wrote:The reason Calzaghe was never in that type of contest is because he is far superior to froch and all his rivals,you can say what you want about him being protected and avoiding people,but i'm sure you would agree that he had great skills,fantastic stamina,granite chin,yes he slapped but when he hits people they go down,especially before his hand were so bad,and he never used his head to block punches

come on, he didn't fight anyone of taylor's speed/movement level throughout his career. counter punchers trouble joe, too. see hopkins, jones, starie, reid fights (reid stayed 1/2 a step back and landed counter rights all night). joe could well have had similar problems, if he had fought in the wrong place, if he didn't have every advantage (though having in built advantage EVERY fight is a good job by promoters). joe was somewhat manufactured

joe does have excellent skills, stamina, determination. but i see cracks. his own chin can be caught, and dented. he always takes off the 12th round vs someone good, so many times he gets stung in the 12th by good fighters (eubank, kessler, brewer, even jones).

joe is more skilled, faster, more fluid than froch. however froch punches vastly harder, and has shown the same level of determination, maybe more so, in situations much more adverse.

why didn't joe go and fight taylor in 06 or 07? he could have gone over there, raised his profile. that was the fight he wanted, more than kessler if the articles at the time were true. taylor was drained as a middle, would get stopped by pavlik. taylor proved to be between a rock and a hard place with his weight making. i'll bet calzaghe-taylor oculd well have happened if joe was willing to go over.

Enzo Calzaghe wrote:"Froch can't protect himself and Nathan (Cleverly) could exploit that. Froch says he's a legend but the only legend from Nottingham is Brian Clough."

bengulnaci1 wrote:Taylor is not the second coming of Sugar Ray Leonard, no.

Carl Forch is a good tough fighter, willing to put it on the line.

Joe C is not an all time great fighter - whether ppl agree with that or not, its how the majority of true worldwide fans feel.

I am from the UK but it seems ppl, here in the UK, are a little defensive when it comes to JC. Hatton deserves equal, if not more respect than anything JC did.

And as for Enzo C, he simply smacks anyone he perceives as a threat.

This is not a rant about whether Carl F is better or would beat JC - It is someting called.....perspective.