Ali, Holmes, Louis and Tyson couldn't do it...

[pringle]

Good question Pringle :-)
Nikolai Valuev might join your list soon - if he defeats Chagaev in the rematch.

True, but whatever you do, never.. never... ever call it an "amazing feat" if Valuev does this. Trust me on this, I made the mistake and I think it is now going to cost me several pages of dissertation.

[SteveO]

No, I definitely back you up and agree that they are indeed 'Amazing Feats', surely nobody can deny that......can they?

[pringle]

No, I definitely back you up and agree that they are indeed 'Amazing Feats', surely nobody can deny that......can they?

You just had to say it didn't you! DIDN'T YOU! Go to your room!

[pringle]

Steve O, I'm cool with the accomplishment being called an "amazing feat" but this gentleman disagrees.

With all due respect, i can't see how that is an amazing feat.
On two occasions Bowe was saved from almost certain defeat by pure madness, and he never fought Lewis.
(I favour Bowe if that match ever came off).
I can't take anything away from Tunney or Marciano, but 49-0 obviously does not need qualification and there's alot more to Gene Tunney than 'the man who beat Dempsey'.
I do believe that Tunney, Lewis and Bowe are often undervalued in comparison to Ali, Louis, Holmes and Tyson (as far as the masses are concerned)*.
And if the motive behind your drawing attention to this little appreciated fact of record is to afford this quartet more recognition, then i commend you wholeheartedly.

*Marciano claims the ultimate in amazing feats by being overrated and underrated by exactly the same proportion of boxing followers

EDIT - I see it has been pointed out that Tunney falls short, but that is my point - it makes him no less a fighter in my eyes.

[witherspoon]

I do, and I see I am not the only one who recognized the danger of allowing Valuev a back door claim to statistical greatness.

[pringle]

I do, and I see I am not the only one who recognized the danger of allowing Valuev a back door claim to statistical greatness.

Whenever Valuev is mentioned in the future, his name will always be followed by "Biggest heavyweight champ ever". His name will not be followed by "all time great", so no argument here.

[witherspoon]

NO.
Whenever Valuev is mentioned in future, it will (potentially or provisionally) be alongside Tunney, Marciano, Bowe and Lewis as one of the only heavyweight champs to beat every foe he stepped into the ring with.

[pringle]

that too, if he wins the rematch.

[Collins2000]

I'm not sure where you got your information BroughtonRulesRefuge but Jr. Middleweight never-a-champ Tony Ayala Jr. got KO'd twice and never rematched Bonsante or Campas... nice job on the research Einstein.

http://www.boxrec.com/list_bouts.php?hu ... &cat=boxer

Cue to BRR (sans pantalons) furiously checking Ayala's record captioned Total Dork.

[Lackeos]

Other interesting (or not) trivia: Tyson is undefeated against undefeateds and all his KO losses were to guys who were previously KO'd.

I suspect that he can't win against guys who can't win, so... Tyson-Zelenoff it is.

[Hookie74]

you missed ingemar johansson

True... people always forget abount Ingo. Tunney, Marciano, Bowe, are the only former HW World champs who were never knocked out.

[Hookie74]

you missed ingemar johansson

- Yeah, he also missed Carlos Monzon, Jimmy Barry, Terry Marsh, Too Tall Jones, Joe Calzaghe, Spaddy, Tony Ayala, Ike, Ingo, and too many fighters to count.

Poor guy botched the question, he did.

Ayala never beat Campas or Bonsante... but they beat him.

How about Jemal Hinton? 22-0 (17) overall. He was the WBC Continental Americas champ at 122Lbs. (4 defenses) and retired before his career really hit the big time.

Anyway, we both know what he was really talking about. LOL

[Hookie74]

I'm not sure where you got your information BB49 but Jr. Middleweight never-a-champ Tony Ayala Jr. got KO'd twice and never rematched Bonsante or Campas... nice job on the research Einstein.

- Yeah, but he retired undefeated as did Jeffries. So what if they come back 6 yrs or 15 yrs later? Ike also undefeated as is Joe Mesi who can't get sanctioned for big fights.

Yeah, you botched the question by including Bowe who was stripped after disgracing his WBC and WBO titles and not fighting his mandatories and he never regained the IBF/WBA titles he lost in the ring. He was beltless and disgraced when he retired as he was throughout his career.

Is this supposed to be some kind of accomplishment by Big Dummy?

Damn, you can never admit when you're wrong. Jeffries came back and lost... doesn't matter if it was 100 years after he retired as champ. Ike and Mesi were never World champs. We are talking about HW champs who beat every fighter they faced at some point in their careers (or in Tunney's case at least drew with).

Tunney, Marciano, Johansson, and Bowe were all "true" HW champs. Chagaev is a WBA champ. Those are the guys... that's it!

[BroughtonRulesRefuge]

Damn, you can never admit when you're wrong.

- Sweet Mother of Hera, I wasn't wrong for weeding out Big Dummy from that grouping.

Big Dummy should've been DQed against Tillery who could've sued the shorts off his thug/manager Newman. He was handed a unified title which he promptly blew apart and he never regained a single belt he lost, 5 in total if we count the bogus lineal title everyone fills their shorts over. He never even tried.

Joe Mesi was boxrec #1 contender and a mandatory and not allowed to fight for a title. He did more to prove himself than did Big Dummy who's team lucked into a smallish champion who was looking weak from his first defense forward.

[Collins2000]

Damn, you can never admit when you're wrong.

- Sweet Mother of Hera, I wasn't wrong for weeding out Big Dummy from that grouping.

Big Dummy should've been DQed against Tillery who could've sued the shorts off his thug/manager Newman. He was handed a unified title which he promptly blew apart and he never regained a single belt he lost, 5 in total if we count the bogus lineal title everyone fills their shorts over. He never even tried.

Joe Mesi was boxrec #1 contender and a mandatory and not allowed to fight for a title. He did more to prove himself than did Big Dummy who's team lucked into a smallish champion who was looking weak from his first defense forward.

Complete and utter nonsense from beginning to end.

[pringle]

I'm not sure where you got your information BB49 but Jr. Middleweight never-a-champ Tony Ayala Jr. got KO'd twice and never rematched Bonsante or Campas... nice job on the research Einstein.

- Yeah, but he retired undefeated as did Jeffries. So what if they come back 6 yrs or 15 yrs later? Ike also undefeated as is Joe Mesi who can't get sanctioned for big fights.

Yeah, you botched the question by including Bowe who was stripped after disgracing his WBC and WBO titles and not fighting his mandatories and he never regained the IBF/WBA titles he lost in the ring. He was beltless and disgraced when he retired as he was throughout his career.

Is this supposed to be some kind of accomplishment by Big Dummy?

Damn, you can never admit when you're wrong. Jeffries came back and lost... doesn't matter if it was 100 years after he retired as champ. Ike and Mesi were never World champs. We are talking about HW champs who beat every fighter they faced at some point in their careers (or in Tunney's case at least drew with).

Tunney, Marciano, Johansson, and Bowe were all "true" HW champs. Chagaev is a WBA champ. Those are the guys... that's it!

Chagaev, undefeated champ dawg, oh yeah! Even if Big Nik beats him, he'll still be in this group.

[pringle]

"beating everyone he fought" group. If Nik KO's him, he'll obviously drop out of the undefeated and not-KO'd group.

[jaclem2]

......yeah, i did this one years ago...including johannsen...maybe my blockbuster buddy remembered it...or..heck..maybe he came up with it on its own. the thread does not make a value judgement....it just makes a statement. (nor a "valuev" judgement)

perhaps the "louis...etc" couldn't do it" should just be "didn't do it."

[wouter]

but Tunny, Marciano, Bowe and Lewis did accomplish this milestone.

Speaking strictly of heavyweight Champions and their professional records:

All time greats Muhammad Ali, Larry Holmes, Joe Louis and Mike Tyson couldn't accomplish this amazing feat in the ring.
However; Gene Tunny, Rocky Marciano, Riddick Bowe and Lennox Lewis did accomplish this milestone.

What is it?

Bowe never beat Busther Mathis jr.

[harrygreb]

I'LL TELL YOU ABOUT AMAZING FEATS! MINE! I HAVE GOT ONE SIZED 9 AND THE OTHER IS A 12

[pringle]

I'LL TELL YOU ABOUT AMAZING FEATS! MINE! I HAVE GOT ONE SIZED 9 AND THE OTHER IS A 12

you?

[SteveO]

[quote="wouter Bowe never beat Busther Mathis jr.[/quote]

Oh yes, that's right it was a 'No Contest'. The same is true for Valuev then - his May 7th 1999 bout against Andreas Sidon was also ruled a 'No Contest'.

[pringle]

Guys, NC's and D's are kicking my ass here, cut me a little slack. :(

[Hookie74]

Damn, you can never admit when you're wrong.

- Sweet Mother of Hera, I wasn't wrong for weeding out Big Dummy from that grouping.

Big Dummy should've been DQed against Tillery who could've sued the shorts off his thug/manager Newman. He was handed a unified title which he promptly blew apart and he never regained a single belt he lost, 5 in total if we count the bogus lineal title everyone fills their shorts over. He never even tried.

Joe Mesi was boxrec #1 contender and a mandatory and not allowed to fight for a title. He did more to prove himself than did Big Dummy who's team lucked into a smallish champion who was looking weak from his first defense forward.

Well, I do agree with you a little. Bowe was a dirty fighter. He used rough tactics in several of his notable fights-

T. Biggs TKO8
T. Tubbs W10 -questionable decision
E. Tillery WDQ1
P. Coetzer TKO7
E. Holyfield W12
B. Mathis NC4

Like him or not he was the legit HW champ for a short period and he was never stopped in a pro fight even though he almost was in 3 fights... Holyfield III and both Golota fights. I also think he woudl have been stopped in the 2nd fight with Holyfield had Fan Man not showed up. Before you say it... it doesn't matter to me if you think Holyfield was juicing or not!

[Hookie74]

Chagaev, undefeated champ dawg, oh yeah! Even if Big Nik beats him, he'll still be in this group.[/quote]

I mentioned Chagaev... I also noted that he is not the HW "World" champ though (WBA champ). I also forgot to add Lewis who has a win over every fighter he faced as a pro. Yes, Bowe never beat Mathis it was a NC so technically he didn't beat every fighter he faced.