BoxRec

Emerson Poncey Name Ghent wrote:Always felt he'd have beaten Calzaghe.

Loved Francis as a fighter at his peak but he'd never have beaten Calzaghe. I've said it before, and I'll say it again, we consistently underestimate the Welshman because of the way his career stagnated in his prime.

[quote="stujones"]I think its very hard to look at the Calzaghe vs Francis fight as a reference. Cause of the age gap.

quote]

Both turned pro at about the same time .. and there was only a 2yr age gap between them

I dont think hes finished but he should move back down to LHW as he cant ake as good a punch at CW and he could make LHW think he still could fight for the British

with all due respect to woodhall, reid, catley, i'd say francis was a better fighter than those 3 WBC champs, 2 of whom gave joe fits. francis was very accurate, compact, powerful. him vs joe would have been an awesome fight had francis not had the injury. joe would definitely have been taking some short, clean shots and those seem to be the ones he can't see coming. if francis could, say, hurt joe with sharp right hands and then follow through with that world class left hook of his, he could have made a definite impact. joe definitely has the better strength, stamina, toughness, but around 1997 or 1998 francis was a much more polished fighter.

Francis also had a loss for the SMW WBC International belt, obviously he is a quality fighter but not genuine world class, I think you lot are overating him.

Coco wrote:Francis also had a loss for the SMW WBC International belt, obviously he is a quality fighter but not genuine world class, I think you lot are overating him.

that was up @ l.heavy v a good fighter,very early on.

look @ the starie fights.

tonyevs wrote:

stujones wrote:I think its very hard to look at the Calzaghe vs Francis fight as a reference. Cause of the age gap.

quote]

Both turned pro at about the same time .. and there was only a 2yr age gap between them

When did they fight, wasn't it when one of them was 20 and the other was 18.... thats a big difference in terms of maturity - far bigger than a 27 against a 25 year old.

Coco wrote:Francis also had a loss for the SMW WBC International belt, obviously he is a quality fighter but not genuine world class, I think you lot are overating him.

I agree.

I remember being impressed with Francis doing a good job in stopping David Starie at super-middle. But Francis was defo not top class - he was slightly too much of a plodder for the top level super-middleweight fighters of the day. The likes of Joe Calzaghe and Sven Ottke would simply have been too sprightly and busy for Francis.

Coco wrote:Francis also had a loss for the SMW WBC International belt, obviously he is a quality fighter but not genuine world class, I think you lot are overating him.

Jaffa Ballogou was a seasoned campaigner who would have been among Joe's finest title defences had they met. Francis did fight him when he was 21, it was actually that fight that demonstrated his world class creditentials. I ran out of gas in that fight, but later fights showed he put that to right.

Autobarn wrote:with all due respect to woodhall, reid, catley, i'd say francis was a better fighter than those 3 WBC champs, 2 of whom gave joe fits. francis was very accurate, compact, powerful. him vs joe would have been an awesome fight had francis not had the injury. joe would definitely have been taking some short, clean shots and those seem to be the ones he can't see coming. if francis could, say, hurt joe with sharp right hands and then follow through with that world class left hook of his, he could have made a definite impact. joe definitely has the better strength, stamina, toughness, but around 1997 or 1998 francis was a much more polished fighter.

Fella, let it go Woodhall didn't give Joe fits - he got walked down and stopped as it was clear (to me at least) that Joe felt he could afford to take a few adopting that tactic as Woodhall couldn't hurt him.
As for Francis, I'd say Woodhall certainly achieved more than him and any fight between the two would have been a 'pick-em' in my book, so the claim he's a better fighter is hard to substantiate.
You also know more than most that it's always a dubious game to use certain fights to make a case for fighter x beating fighter y - do you think Joe would have endured the struggle with Mark Baker that Dean did? I certainly can't see it, think it would have been Delaney Mark II.
In 97/98, Francis was an unproven (at world level) fighter with some slick skills who had potential - to claim he was a "much more polished fighter" than Calzaghe at that point is crazy in my honest opinion... you know only too well that it's easy to look good at a lower level of opposition and to infer from that situation that he could definitely not just have operated at the highest level, but also to be far more polished proposition than Calzaghe at that point is, well, I've think I've made my feelings on that one clear .
To give it all some sense of perspective, can you imagine the abuse an American poster would be getting on here if he claimed that a US fighter who'd failed in bids for an NABA title or the equivalent would have beaten Calzaghe during the same period if they fought?