Calzaghe takes on W Arren again.

[Rocky Balboa]

Fcuking get in there, Joe!

[fluxstuff]

I find it all very bewildering, surely if a high court awards damages, the sum awarded must be paid by law and by a set date. If that cannot be enforced what is the point of anyone taking legal action against another. The Boxing Board has to take action or they are just as guilty as the party we are discussing. I suppose "pay up when I am forced to" is a good ploy as £2 million earns quite a lot of interest in his high interest bank account. I have never before heard of anyone getting away with not paying after a court has made its decision so I think Joe must be in a strong legal position. This man has too much power and it needs to be curbed.

The problem is that he sued Sports Network, since they are the legal corporation (or LTD company) who failed to pay the money. FW might be CEO, but he's not responsible for the money Joe hasn't been paid.

With that in mind, if Joe can prove that Warren deliberately liquidated SN to avoid paying legal damages then that's a form of fraud unless Warren can prove that paying the damages would have bankrupted his company and left him in financial ruin personally. Calzaghe's contention is that Warren was planning for his loss and was moving some assets to FW Promotions in advance of the decision.

I think Warren will lose the case but tie the money up in legal wrangles for another 5 years.

[Colesy]

Hire Terry Marsh

[Spud]

I find it all very bewildering, surely if a high court awards damages, the sum awarded must be paid by law and by a set date. If that cannot be enforced what is the point of anyone taking legal action against another. The Boxing Board has to take action or they are just as guilty as the party we are discussing. I suppose "pay up when I am forced to" is a good ploy as £2 million earns quite a lot of interest in his high interest bank account. I have never before heard of anyone getting away with not paying after a court has made its decision so I think Joe must be in a strong legal position. This man has too much power and it needs to be curbed.

The problem is that he sued Sports Network, since they are the legal corporation (or LTD company) who failed to pay the money. FW might be CEO, but he's not responsible for the money Joe hasn't been paid.

With that in mind, if Joe can prove that Warren deliberately liquidated SN to avoid paying legal damages then that's a form of fraud unless Warren can prove that paying the damages would have bankrupted his company and left him in financial ruin personally. Calzaghe's contention is that Warren was planning for his loss and was moving some assets to FW Promotions in advance of the decision.

I think Warren will lose the case but tie the money up in legal wrangles for another 5 years.

Interesting stuff!!!

but how on earth can someone prove beyond reasonable doubt that assets were being deliberately moved?

[Autobarn]

storm his offices, kick down doors, take names

[Spud]

storm his offices, kick down doors, take names

I wish "law" would allow that - but I have a feeling W arren may have the law on his side - no matter what we all think are the wrongs and rights in this case - I have the feeling Calzaghe will lose this case as he simply will not be able to prove what he wants to!!!

Very frustrating and I certainly hope Calzaghe wins this case as it sets a very dangerous trend if he doesn't!!! - I just simply cannot see how the proof is going to be found.

[fluxstuff]

I find it all very bewildering, surely if a high court awards damages, the sum awarded must be paid by law and by a set date. If that cannot be enforced what is the point of anyone taking legal action against another. The Boxing Board has to take action or they are just as guilty as the party we are discussing. I suppose "pay up when I am forced to" is a good ploy as £2 million earns quite a lot of interest in his high interest bank account. I have never before heard of anyone getting away with not paying after a court has made its decision so I think Joe must be in a strong legal position. This man has too much power and it needs to be curbed.

The problem is that he sued Sports Network, since they are the legal corporation (or LTD company) who failed to pay the money. FW might be CEO, but he's not responsible for the money Joe hasn't been paid.

With that in mind, if Joe can prove that Warren deliberately liquidated SN to avoid paying legal damages then that's a form of fraud unless Warren can prove that paying the damages would have bankrupted his company and left him in financial ruin personally. Calzaghe's contention is that Warren was planning for his loss and was moving some assets to FW Promotions in advance of the decision.

I think Warren will lose the case but tie the money up in legal wrangles for another 5 years.

Interesting stuff!!!

but how on earth can someone prove beyond reasonable doubt that assets were being deliberately moved?

it might not be that difficult - if they can prove that, from the time of the trial's beginning, that SN was making money from their shows and that assets were being transferred to the new business for no discernible reason, there's enough to warrant the suit.

the court has already agreed that Warren had behaved incorrectly in his payments to Calzaghe, they've also found against SN in a lawsuit with the Millennium Stadium, so there's history of a failure to pay.

[McCannW14]

the fact that he hasnt broken the law as such is the key isnt it.I feel for joe but i really cant see him getting a penny.

Its the same with a lot of these buisnessmen in all walks of life theyre scum and get away with screwing us honest folk

Thats quite harsh. A lot of businessmen, including Warren, work all the hours god sends and make huge sacrifices along the way. They overcome a lot of adversity. Warrren has virtually dedicated his life to promoting and launched his outfit when the game was virtually a closed shop.

Calzaghe appears to have had a contract with Sports Network Ltd, who went bust. There has been no mention of if he had a contract with Warren. If he didnt I cant see how Warren is liable. If Calzaghe loses this latest round of legal action I dread to think what the costs will be. Will we see him back in the ring? Calzaghe is trying to recover a debt from a Ltd Co via its Director personally. In this respect he appears to be trying to rewrite the law.

The question that occurs to me is, why didnt Calzaghe seek personal guarantees from the Directors of Sports Network Ltd if such large sume of money were involved? Who was advising him on legals?

[fluxstuff]

Calzaghe appears to have had a contract with Sports Network Ltd, who went bust

Because it was funny that they went "bust" just as the verdict went against SN and, magically, FW starts up a new promotional firm and takes all the SN fighters with him. You could easily argue it was fraudulent.

Boo hoo for poor wee Fwank.

[boxbet]

Frank bailed out the board so he virtually owns the board. no action will be taken here. hope justice is done.

[Counter-puncher]

Calzaghe appears to have had a contract with Sports Network Ltd, who went bust

Because it was funny that they went "bust" just as the verdict went against SN and, magically, FW starts up a new promotional firm and takes all the SN fighters with him. You could easily argue it was fraudulent.

Boo hoo for poor wee Fwank.

exactly, McCann- you correctly point out that as director of ltd co Warren has no personal liability

the bit you miss out is, if it can be proved (yes big if, but...) that Warren did not undertake his statutory responsibilities as director properly, EG if he was knowingly trading whilst insolvent, or if he was squirelling funds away from company A to Company B, before declaring company A bankrupt, then the kicker is:

warren becomes responsible at that point

ever hear about Creditor's meetings? its where all the peopl/companies owed money by a company entering liquidation, turns up for a meeting with the liquidator and directors of said company, and basically grill them, trying to find out some way in which the Directors have fecked up, and thus they can chase the directors personally for the money opwed

limited liability is NOT blanket immunity from personal liability

it is only that, if the directors have been unipeachable, and therein lies Calzaghe's argument

[twenty six]

The Liquidators will go through 5 years of any Company's dealings.
If there is evidence of syphoning off, moving assets to gain a pecuniary advantage, then get ready.
However I would ask you to consider this.
What assets does a Promotional Company own ?
An office, a few desks, Computers.
Employs a few "no marks".
In the case of the Company in question it didn't even hold a Promotor's licence.
That belonged to its employee Mr Wazza.
No doubt that employee left a while a go, leaving the Company with nowhere to go, hence its liquidation.
You must all realise that the Company in question has not promoted a show for over 18 months.
It sickens to the stomach but I am sorry to say, nothing illegal in my humble opinion has occurred.
I have heard a rumour Joe has been offered 10p in the £ which equals £180,000.
The Board can only take action in accordance with their rule book.
As the Company concerned has done nothing wrong then as anticipated there will be no action.
Indeed I understand the person concerned has registered his new Company, applied for a licence, and been granted it.
Morally one would hope that the Board would make a stand - but to invite legal action from their saviour ?
Not a cat in hell's chance.

[WildWaylon]

What a rotten World the World of boxing still is. Many thanks to those who clarified the situation. Sounds like the man has made himself fireproof with very clever lawyers and will get away with it. I feel sorry for Joe whose fast hands seem to be tied. I am amazed this thread hasnt been locked or taken off the boards.

[jimglen]

yeah but like the rest of them (and us too) he still must face the Judge!!!

[knockout]

The main assets of the company are presumably the contracts of the fighters and the TV contracts.

When did Warren stop signing fighters to Sports Network Ltd???

[twenty six]

Ages ago mate.
Anyone he is remotely interested in had their contracts transferred, and all new signings are to his new Company.
That's exactly how he tried to get his way out of Setanta.
That deal was with SN - who had no fighters !

[Spud]

Thanks Twenty Six,

I don't have a clue on the law side of things - your explanation in my opinion states although I think Joe Calzaghe is morally in the right - he does not have a chance of getting his dough!!

[coneye]

Its utterly amazing that anyone , will still do buisness with him ,

[tonyevs]

I understand that fWank may technically have stayed within the law .. but morally he clearly has over stepped the mark

What exactly does the BBB of C have a duty to do? .. if they are seen to do nothing then surely their whole role in the game should be questioned.

[Autobarn]

a sorry state of affairs

but i can't feel sorry for anyone as certain ppl must have been glad to rake it in, vs substandard opponents. too cosy, makes you want to vomit, and they always fall out and argue over pennies afterward.

[Coco]

a sorry state of affairs

but i can't feel sorry for anyone as certain ppl must have been glad to rake it in, vs substandard opponents. too cosy, makes you want to vomit, and they always fall out and argue over pennies afterward.

The money owed wasn't from a substandard opponent though

[twenty six]

Spud,
You've reached a fair conclusion.
However, we may all be giving a certain individual a lot of kudos for the handling his business affairs that potentially is too high.
I would refer you back to the transcripts of the original case and the comments made.
This is no easy case to fight / persue but I'm in the fighter's corner all the way.
Tonyevs,
The Board have rules.
Decisions cannot be based upon moral opinions.
You only have to look at the make up of the Board and the number of QC's involved.
They will work with a no risk strategy.
Break the rules - be punished.
Stay within the rules you won't be punished.
What rule has Sports Network broken ?
Sad but that's the reality.

[My T Sharp]

The board won't do a jot. It would only be a concern if Warren would have bitten Joe.

I think legally Joe will get his money, and Frank is just probably buying some time before paying him.

Basically 50% of the profits from the Hopkins fight were paid to SN of which 80% were to be paid straight to Joe.

It's a straightforward transaction and the law is in place for the directors to be personally punished and liable if Joe does not get paid.

[Autobarn]

a sorry state of affairs

but i can't feel sorry for anyone as certain ppl must have been glad to rake it in, vs substandard opponents. too cosy, makes you want to vomit, and they always fall out and argue over pennies afterward.

The money owed wasn't from a substandard opponent though

yeah but you see all these cozy, incestuous relationships and then it goes sour - boo hoo, eh

[phil5555]

The board won't do a jot. It would only be a concern if Warren would have bitten Joe.

I think legally Joe will get his money, and Frank is just probably buying some time before paying him.

Basically 50% of the profits from the Hopkins fight were paid to SN of which 80% were to be paid straight to Joe.

It's a straightforward transaction and the law is in place for the directors to be personally punished and liable if Joe does not get paid.

legally its not Fw who owes him money its sports network...........Joe will get nothing .which is wrong ...but thats the way it works with ltd companys