BoxRec

granberry wrote:

HomicideHenry wrote:Tiger Flowers....but then again, I'm just dropping a 'southpaw' reference, rather than a straight up 'left hook' artist.

A southpaw would hit himself in the face if he tried to throw a "left hook."

Cranky, would the same 'logic' apply to an orthodox fighter throwing a right hook?

...collins....to be strictly technical an orthodox fighter cannot throw a right hook.....unless he shifts his feet to the southpaw position...

Jaclem wrote:...collins....to be strictly technical an orthodox fighter cannot throw a right hook.....unless he shifts his feet to the southpaw position...

It all depends what your definition of a 'hook' is. Mine is " A semi-circular punch thrown with either hand to the side of the opponent's head or body."

Care to give me yours, Jaclem?

One of my favourite sights in boxing was Chavez ripping in left and right hooks to head and body when he had an opponent on the ropes. Are you saying I imagined it, Jaclem?

Collins2000 wrote:

Jaclem wrote:...collins....to be strictly technical an orthodox fighter cannot throw a right hook.....unless he shifts his feet to the southpaw position...

It all depends what your definition of a 'hook' is. Mine is " A semi-circular punch thrown with either hand to the side of the opponent's head or body."

Care to give me yours, Jaclem?

One of my favourite sights in boxing was Chavez ripping in left and right hooks to head and body when he had an opponent on the ropes. Are you saying I imagined it, Jaclem?

Collins is so incompetent that he doesn't know the difference between a fighter's stance at longer range

and a fighter's stance when fighting in close.

Collins, check with your fellow "expert" buzz--

and I'm sure the two of you clueless boobs who never had a fight with your own sister (and never will)

can offer more gems from your fund of "knowledge" on "boxing".

LOL

asdf

..collins....in a way i agree with you,as that seems to be a hook....but i repeat, i said "technically" ...and that definition goes back to jim corbett and is the one trainers , boxers, historians....etc.... have always used....so it is neither my definition or yours......and it is the position of the feet that determines it.

one example...nat fleischer always said the blow to corbett's "solar plexus" was a left hook, as "fitzsimons shifted to the southpaw stance when he threw it".


occasionally these days you'll read about an orthodox fighter (i am not referring to his religion) throwing a right hook....but very strictly speaking such a punch does not exist.

..a few decades ago ellery queen solved a case because a guy claiming to be a fight manager referred to a "right hook" and ellery said that tipped him the guy was a phoney because "there is no such thing as a right hook."

i wrote to him (actually them) saying this was a false assumption for the reader to make...and an unfair clue...because nowhere in the story did it say the fighter was right handed and not a southpaw. never heard back.

granberry wrote:

Collins2000 wrote:

Jaclem wrote:...collins....to be strictly technical an orthodox fighter cannot throw a right hook.....unless he shifts his feet to the southpaw position...

It all depends what your definition of a 'hook' is. Mine is " A semi-circular punch thrown with either hand to the side of the opponent's head or body."

Care to give me yours, Jaclem?

One of my favourite sights in boxing was Chavez ripping in left and right hooks to head and body when he had an opponent on the ropes. Are you saying I imagined it, Jaclem?

Collins is so incompetent that he doesn't know the difference between a fighter's stance at longer range

and a fighter's stance when fighting in close.

Collins, check with your fellow "expert" buzz--

and I'm sure the two of you clueless boobs who never had a fight with your own sister (and never will)

can offer more gems from your fund of "knowledge" on "boxing".

LOL

Wheelchair-bound boxing 'expert' Crankberry shows, once again, his technical knowledge of the art of boxing is on par with his knowledge of the history of the game.

Crankberry ought to stick to sending PMs challenging posters to a game of Hungy Hippo in the buff.

Collins2000 wrote:

granberry wrote:

Collins2000 wrote: It all depends what your definition of a 'hook' is. Mine is " A semi-circular punch thrown with either hand to the side of the opponent's head or body."

Care to give me yours, Jaclem?

One of my favourite sights in boxing was Chavez ripping in left and right hooks to head and body when he had an opponent on the ropes. Are you saying I imagined it, Jaclem?

Collins is so incompetent that he doesn't know the difference between a fighter's stance at longer range

and a fighter's stance when fighting in close.

Collins, check with your fellow "expert" buzz--

and I'm sure the two of you clueless boobs who never had a fight with your own sister (and never will)

can offer more gems from your fund of "knowledge" on "boxing".

LOL

Wheelchair-bound boxing 'expert' Crankberry shows, once again, his technical knowledge of the art of boxing is on par with his knowledge of the history of the game.

Crankberry ought to stick to sending PMs challenging posters to a game of Hungy Hippo in the buff.

buzz's attack boy Collins along with his mentor buzz think that hearing Joe Frazier sing is having contact with boxing.

Poor Collins thinks an orthodox stance fighter can throw a right hook.

Clueless buzz and his boy Collins know "so much" about "boxing."

Crankberry, the self-proclaimed boxing expert, states that a southpaw would hit himself in the face if he threw a left hook.

Upon being exposed as a blowhard know-nothing wannabe hardman he goes back to his old and tired routine of talking about Joe Frazier's vocal ability.

Crankster, why don't you tell us more 'stories' about how you once stood in the same queue for a fight show as Jersey Joe Walcott. That was a really thrilling post that I'd love to hear more about. Honestly.

I apologize on behalf of all humanity for clapberry's personal insult and unimaginable cruelty of claiming me as a possible mentor for our fellow contributor Collins.

I can assure Collins and all others that the pain this may cause him and his family and loved ones was in no way instigated by me. granberry is not a name that I travel under in order to dispense anguish, confusion, disinformation and other assorted acts of felonious mischief.

The genius granberry seeks to cloud the waters and bring people to the assumption that perhaps he and I are one and the same or somehow in league with one another. I claim my innocence of this charge. The fact that I purchased all of Joe Frazier's collected recordings from him, should not be extrapulated to assume that we are in any way affiliated.

But just to show I'm the forgiving sort, and that I like to stay on topic, I will offer up a great picture of one the best Left Hookers in history. A man that can both sing and box. A man that one occasion decked the greatest Heavyweight champion of all time. However he is singing a different tune in this particular pose.

Collins2000 wrote:Crankberry, the self-proclaimed boxing expert, states that a southpaw would hit himself in the face if he threw a left hook.

Upon being exposed as a blowhard know-nothing wannabe hardman he goes back to his old and tired routine of talking about Joe Frazier's vocal ability.

Crankster, why don't you tell us more 'stories' about how you once stood in the same queue for a fight show as Jersey Joe Walcott. That was a really thrilling post that I'd love to hear more about. Honestly.

Clueless Collins doesn't have a clue what boxing is

but he is compelled to post his cluelessness on a "boxing" site.

The internet is a home for the clueless like poor Collins.

BoxBuzz wrote:I apologize on behalf of all humanity for clapberry's personal insult and unimaginable cruelty of claiming me as a possible mentor for our fellow contributor Collins.

I can assure Collins and all others that the pain this may cause him and his family and loved ones was in no way instigated by me. granberry is not a name that I travel under in order to dispense anguish, confusion, disinformation and other assorted acts of felonious mischief.

The genius granberry seeks to cloud the waters and bring people to the assumption that perhaps he and I are one and the same or somehow in league with one another. I claim my innocence of this charge. The fact that I purchased all of Joe Frazier's collected recordings from him, should not be extrapulated to assume that we are in any way affiliated.

But just to show I'm the forgiving sort, and that I like to stay on topic, I will offer up a great picture of one the best Left Hookers in history. A man that can both sing and box. A man that one occasion decked the greatest Heavyweight champion of all time. However he is singing a different tune in this particular pose.

BoxBuzz wrote:I apologize on behalf of all humanity for clapberry's personal insult and unimaginable cruelty of claiming me as a possible mentor for our fellow contributor Collins.

I can assure Collins and all others that the pain this may cause him and his family and loved ones was in no way instigated by me. granberry is not a name that I travel under in order to dispense anguish, confusion, disinformation and other assorted acts of felonious mischief.

The genius granberry seeks to cloud the waters and bring people to the assumption that perhaps he and I are one and the same or somehow in league with one another. I claim my innocence of this charge. The fact that I purchased all of Joe Frazier's collected recordings from him, should not be extrapulated to assume that we are in any way affiliated.

But just to show I'm the forgiving sort, and that I like to stay on topic, I will offer up a great picture of one the best Left Hookers in history. A man that can both sing and box. A man that one occasion decked the greatest Heavyweight champion of all time. However he is singing a different tune in this particular pose.

BoxBuzz wrote:I apologize on behalf of all humanity for clapberry's personal insult and unimaginable cruelty of claiming me as a possible mentor for our fellow contributor Collins.

I can assure Collins and all others that the pain this may cause him and his family and loved ones was in no way instigated by me. granberry is not a name that I travel under in order to dispense anguish, confusion, disinformation and other assorted acts of felonious mischief.

The genius granberry seeks to cloud the waters and bring people to the assumption that perhaps he and I are one and the same or somehow in league with one another. I claim my innocence of this charge. The fact that I purchased all of Joe Frazier's collected recordings from him, should not be extrapulated to assume that we are in any way affiliated.

But just to show I'm the forgiving sort, and that I like to stay on topic, I will offer up a great picture of one the best Left Hookers in history. A man that can both sing and box. A man that one occasion decked the greatest Heavyweight champion of all time. However he is singing a different tune in this particular pose.

granberry wrote:

BoxBuzz wrote:I apologize on behalf of all humanity for clapberry's personal insult and unimaginable cruelty of claiming me as a possible mentor for our fellow contributor Collins.

I can assure Collins and all others that the pain this may cause him and his family and loved ones was in no way instigated by me. granberry is not a name that I travel under in order to dispense anguish, confusion, disinformation and other assorted acts of felonious mischief.

The genius granberry seeks to cloud the waters and bring people to the assumption that perhaps he and I are one and the same or somehow in league with one another. I claim my innocence of this charge. The fact that I purchased all of Joe Frazier's collected recordings from him, should not be extrapulated to assume that we are in any way affiliated.

But just to show I'm the forgiving sort, and that I like to stay on topic, I will offer up a great picture of one the best Left Hookers in history. A man that can both sing and box. A man that one occasion decked the greatest Heavyweight champion of all time. However he is singing a different tune in this particular pose.

You know in his most compromised moment Ali showed his true greatness....it's like that with the best of the best. NO ONE should have gotten up from that perfect shot of Joe's......and yet Ali got up and even remained competitive....some say he more than held his own after he was decked. An amazing achievment.....granberry you make the case for Ali's legendary chin. You have to stop operating in conjunction with the Great Ali Hype machine or your friends will start questioning your loyalties...and you will recieve a visit from UnoWho.

..decagon's list defining punches is the correct one from historical precedent. as i wrote...if a fighter changes his foot stance, then he can throw punches normally defined by the other USUAL stance, and my example was corbett/fitzsimmons.

box buzz.....you've got me confused by saying frazier decked the greatest heavyweight of all time. when did he fight joe louis? even in an exhibtion louis should have too old.....and frazier should be ashamed of hitting a fighter of that age.

BoxBuzz wrote:

granberry wrote:

BoxBuzz wrote:I apologize on behalf of all humanity for clapberry's personal insult and unimaginable cruelty of claiming me as a possible mentor for our fellow contributor Collins.

I can assure Collins and all others that the pain this may cause him and his family and loved ones was in no way instigated by me. granberry is not a name that I travel under in order to dispense anguish, confusion, disinformation and other assorted acts of felonious mischief.

The genius granberry seeks to cloud the waters and bring people to the assumption that perhaps he and I are one and the same or somehow in league with one another. I claim my innocence of this charge. The fact that I purchased all of Joe Frazier's collected recordings from him, should not be extrapulated to assume that we are in any way affiliated.

But just to show I'm the forgiving sort, and that I like to stay on topic, I will offer up a great picture of one the best Left Hookers in history. A man that can both sing and box. A man that one occasion decked the greatest Heavyweight champion of all time. However he is singing a different tune in this particular pose.

You know in his most compromised moment Ali showed his true greatness....it's like that with the best of the best. NO ONE should have gotten up from that perfect shot of Joe's......and yet Ali got up and even remained competitive....some say he more than held his own after he was decked. An amazing achievment.....granberry you make the case for Ali's legendary chin. You have to stop operating in conjunction with the Great Ali Hype machine or your friends will start questioning your loyalties...and you will recieve a visit from UnoWho.

Buzz is so indoctrinated in Ali Industry crap

that poor buzz tries to claim it is a plus that ALI WAS KNOCKED FLAT ON HIS BACK by Joe Frazier.

Keep the crap coming, buzz.

granberry wrote:

BoxBuzz wrote:

granberry wrote:

You know in his most compromised moment Ali showed his true greatness....it's like that with the best of the best. NO ONE should have gotten up from that perfect shot of Joe's......and yet Ali got up and even remained competitive....some say he more than held his own after he was decked. An amazing achievment.....granberry you make the case for Ali's legendary chin. You have to stop operating in conjunction with the Great Ali Hype machine or your friends will start questioning your loyalties...and you will recieve a visit from UnoWho.

Buzz is so indoctrinated in Ali Industry crap

that poor buzz tries to claim it is a plus that ALI WAS KNOCKED FLAT ON HIS BACK by Joe Frazier.

Keep the crap coming, buzz.

Aha...I see english is your second language......From the way you tell it Joe could bust an eardrum with the best of 'em. Now to go over what was actually said. The rising up from the dust....much as the Phoenix or perhaps Lazarus was the amazing aspect of this event. This was point that was missed, my bilingual monosylabic friend.

As for you Jaclem, Joe Lous was the SECOND greatest HW champion of all time. Joe Frazier would have knocked him down as well. And of course just like Ali he would have gotten back up and probably won the next two fights with Frazier.

granberry, I want you bone up on your syntax, capiche?

Ali was up in three seconds, and Ali scored the only stoppage in the trilogy. Stopping your opponent is more impressive than a knock down

I Feel Fine wrote:Ali was up in three seconds, and Ali scored the only stoppage in the trilogy. Stopping your opponent is more impressive than a knock down

Not for Crankberry. He thinks Frazier would be 3-0 in the series if it wasn't for crooked officials.

He thinks Liston would have been 2-0 if he hadn't been paid off.

Cooper should have been 2-0 too if The Ali Industry hadn't got to 'Enery.

Patterson, same deal. The NOI screwed up his back. Don't forget Crankberry saw someone who was already dead massaging his back in that fight.

...boxbuzzy is a little sensistive because he is only the second best guy to post on this forum. i am too modest to name the best.

..ali's getting up from that knockdown was phenomenal. if you look at the film even at that late stage when both were very tired, frazier was still able to throw a punch like that and ali's reflexes were still good enough for him to be turning his head to the left as the punch was on its way, to defuse the power just a bit. if he hadn't he might have been decapitated.

a real championship display by both fighters.

Jaclem wrote:...boxbuzzy is a little sensistive because he is only the second best guy to post on this forum. i am too modest to name the best.

Yes, Jaclem.

We all know what an "expert" you are on welterweight champion

Joe Walcott the Barbados Demon.

Your comments on Walcott were worthy of clueless buzz himself.

BoxBuzz wrote:

granberry wrote:

BoxBuzz wrote:
You know in his most compromised moment Ali showed his true greatness....it's like that with the best of the best. NO ONE should have gotten up from that perfect shot of Joe's......and yet Ali got up and even remained competitive....some say he more than held his own after he was decked. An amazing achievment.....granberry you make the case for Ali's legendary chin. You have to stop operating in conjunction with the Great Ali Hype machine or your friends will start questioning your loyalties...and you will recieve a visit from UnoWho.

Buzz is so indoctrinated in Ali Industry crap

that poor buzz tries to claim it is a plus that ALI WAS KNOCKED FLAT ON HIS BACK by Joe Frazier.

Keep the crap coming, buzz.

Aha...I see english is your second language......From the way you tell it Joe could bust an eardrum with the best of 'em. Now to go over what was actually said. The rising up from the dust....much as the Phoenix or perhaps Lazarus was the amazing aspect of this event. This was point that was missed, my bilingual monosylabic friend.

As for you Jaclem, Joe Lous was the SECOND greatest HW champion of all time. Joe Frazier would have knocked him down as well. And of course just like Ali he would have gotten back up and probably won the next two fights with Frazier.

granberry, I want you bone up on your syntax, capiche?

Ali was knocked flat on his back,

and buzz, a member of the walking army of Ali Industry clones,

offers that Ali managed to get up.

Poor buzz,

He doesn't have a photo of Ali knocking Frazier down,

because our hero Ali couldn't do that in 41 rounds of fighting Frazier.


Buzz, admit it.

Your Ali Industry mentors left you high and dry on this one.

You posted a photo of Ali throwing a punch at Frazier in good Ali Industry style,

BUT THEN you got CLOBBERED by photos of Joe Frazier knocking poor Ali

FLAT ON HIS BACK.

Now the best you can offer is that Ali made it back up.

List of contents from 1929 print of "How to box" by Nat Fleischer:
Chapter XII. Right Hook to the Body

1932 revised edition of the same book
Chapter XII. The Right Hook to the Jaw
Chapter XIII. Right Hook to the Body