We miss you Lennox

[Rocky Balboa]

I wasn't a fan of Lennox when he was boxing, but became more of a fan in the later stages of his career. You cannot deny he was an excellent fighter, one of the best HW's in history, he's up there, no question!

Whether you were a fan or not, he was above the guys around today that's for sure! He would have taken care of business! He was not in top condition & neglected his training some-what for Vitali & he still took care of business! He was past it by then & that's why Lennox got out at the right time!

By the way, I'm a massive Tyson fan, always have been, always will be, but Lennox was a brilliant fighter & he was around today, we would know who was the best fighter in the HW division!

Lennox will not be back though, no chance! He invested his earnings, has got houses all over the world, is married, has a son, does TV work, etc. He does not need boxing in the slighest!

[Grilling Machine]

I still think that the young Tyson beats every version of Lewis, and every version of Lewis beats the older Tyson. Lewis was faster and fitter when he was younger - more aggressive too, but he relied on a telegraphed overhand right and his reach. While it worked brilliantly for him against Bruno, I'm certain that Tyson would've been too sharp to get nailed by that shot. He'd also have been conditioned enough to wear an ageing Lewis down.

I'd pick Holyfield to always lose. Holyfield was better in many ways, but the Foreman fight showed that he wasn't a true heavy (mind you, Foreman's chin in that one was astonishing).

Bowe probably had the tools to win, but by not agreeing terms he lost the psychological fight. I think Ibeabuchi stood a real chance against Lewis at the time they were both active; his skills were overlooked because of his size. I couldn't see him winning in the mid-Nineties, though. I feel that was Lewis' peak.

The answer to the following question is easy: Who was the best HW throughout the late-'90s and early-2000s? That's what we should give credit for: he fought the top challengers and beat them all. (Does anyone want to count Rahman?)

[gobbles]

When you look at the quality of his opposition, he was beating better guys than Wlad three times a year for about eight years.

I weep for the heavyweight division.

Your memory is playing tricks with you

[thepocketrocket]

For the love of god, the jerking off over Lennox on here has always annoyed me, I thought I may have seen the last of it!

With the greatest of respect to a decent champion, he would have been eaten alive by a peak Tyson and Holyfield. An, old, verging on shot version of Holy was able to arguably beat Lewis in the 2nd fight, and Lewis didnt have enough to finish him when he should have in the 1st!

Such an urban myth over the Vitali fight. Lewis had shot his bolt in the sixth, he visibly sags as hes going to the corner, he would have been taken out before the eighth, and then shits himself when Vitali confronts him post fight, he knew that at this stage of their career there would be only one winner!

Lewis was excellent but the demise of Grant and Tua shows to me that he was about at the right time, these victories must be put into perspective!

Oh, and Bowe mever bottled it, no-one would pay to watch Lennox at the time, he went for the money making fight...

[chinny]

My fondest Lewis memory is the Mercer fight. Tough brawl. Lewis bruised up. Scores come in and Lewis actually cheers, looks excited, and raises his hands, then realises he has shown some emotion, and starts cooly nodding his head, I remember thinknig, "Yeah, he does care!"

Excellent observation. Much more subtle than the chest thumping after he left Rahman wearing Don's crown

[dbf]

My fondest Lewis memory is the Mercer fight. Tough brawl. Lewis bruised up. Scores come in and Lewis actually cheers, looks excited, and raises his hands, then realises he has shown some emotion, and starts cooly nodding his head, I remember thinknig, "Yeah, he does care!"

Excellent observation. Much more subtle than the chest thumping after he left Rahman wearing Don's crown

I did like the chest thumping. Again it showed that he cared. That post-fight interview was one of his best, looked like he wanted to continue fighting. "I told you you're unknown, you're unknown (looks about a bit). Seen? Kingston, Jamaica, big up!"

I think it was scripted by DG.

Ha ha. "They gonna call him Has-been Rahman, Has-been Rahman"

[chinny]

I bought a best of lennox lewis double dvd a few years ago. This thread has made me realise I need to dust it off and watch it again

[DG.]

My fondest Lewis memory is the Mercer fight. Tough brawl. Lewis bruised up. Scores come in and Lewis actually cheers, looks excited, and raises his hands, then realises he has shown some emotion, and starts cooly nodding his head, I remember thinknig, "Yeah, he does care!"

Excellent observation. Much more subtle than the chest thumping after he left Rahman wearing Don's crown

I did like the chest thumping. Again it showed that he cared. That post-fight interview was one of his best, looked like he wanted to continue fighting. "I told you you're unknown, you're unknown (looks about a bit). Seen? Kingston, Jamaica, big up!"

I think it was scripted by DG.

If he included 'mash him down' or 'tump hm down' it was indeed scripted by DG!

[streak]

performances like Rahman 2 I liked, not running about poking a jab at a short fat (he came in like 2 stones overweight) bloke. Fights like Mercer, Bruno, Kiltschko are his better performances.

[el_grande_mauro_mina]

The same Tyson who massacred Smith and Tucker eh?

Try again

I'm a Lewis fan - always have been - never understood the cracks about him not being British - load of shite if you ask me but I'll
say this - the Tyson of 1987 would have beaten Lewis - you talk about the Tucker fight - The Tony Tucker Tyson beat was an
excellent heavyweight and Tyson beat him to the jab - think about that - a 5ft 11ins heavyweight beating 6ft 6ins Tony Tucker
to the jab. As for Smith - Bonecrusher simply did not want to fight. I'm a big Tyson fan - I can't help it but would have Lewis steamrollered
a 22 year old Tyson - not in my opinion.

PS: Lewis hardly blew away Tucker himself when he fought him 5 years after Tyson did!

[thepocketrocket]

Terry, there is a differance between negating an opponent and actually coming back with offensive weapons. Bonecrusher and Tucker went into theri shell and Tyuson dominated the fights. Are you trusting Lewis to actually employ a jab and right hand. Lewis would be spending more time negating Tysons work rather than doing any of his own, Tyson dominates the rounds and if he lands then Lennox goes!

Yes, i'm not mystic meg but that Vitali fight is spoken about as some sort of success and the Lewis nuthuggers talk in terms of Lewis being on the verge of victory. Horsecrap, Vitali looks good to win and Lennox looks TIRED, he's well overweight and that was a last push. We will never know what would have happened in rounds seven or eight but my gut instinct is that Vitali would have continued his good work and finished him off, Lewis did not look like a man who believed he had got the better of his opponent.

And to talk about victories over Botha and Briggs as being career defining is just plain ludicrousy! Tua, Grant, old Holy, shot to bits Tyson...these mean very little in the grand scheme of things...give me Benn over McClellan anyday, top fighter against a monster, not facing a hypejob or Godzilla's grandad

[Autobarn]

The Vitali fight is an impressive win. While neither were in absolute peak shape, Vitali had numerous good wins and a WBO title behind him. Lewis shrugged off hurtful shots, rallied to win on horrible cuts. Winning on cuts is a legitimate way of winning. Both big men were knackered, not just a fat Lewis. Lewis and Vitali are likely the 2 best super sized heavyweights ever, and Lewis' thrilling win looks more and more impressive. That fight is a major scalp, and how often do you see 2 big men in a craxy slugfest?...Vitali went on to dominate Kirk Johnson, Corrie Sanders, Sam Peter, and Juan Carlos Gomez, stopping all of them. Looking like the heavyweight we all could do with, if only he'd had more fights.

So - ppl can go on about "Lewis Would Of Lost 2 Prime Tyson" - as if the world were still stuck in fvcking 1987! That "Tyson & Holyfield were old". OK then, but you can also say that Lennox stopped a fresh, 30-year-old Vitali Klitschko, in a classic heavyweight title fight. Do you hear that? No, we get "Lewis didn't fight Chris Byrd & John Ruiz for the WBA title." Sad.

[el_grande_mauro_mina]

"Lewis Would Of Lost 2 Prime Tyson" - as if the world were still stuck in fvcking 1987

Being a free country - we are allowed to say that 'in my opinion a prime Tyson would have beaten Lewis'
because Lewis is still claiming a win over Tyson even though he was shot to bits!

No, we get "Lewis didn't fight Chris Byrd & John Ruiz for the WBA title." Sad.

Who has ever said that on here?

[Autobarn]

the WBA thing usually comes up, whether it was the Lews/Calzaghe thread on here or other threads on the current scene i don't recall. you know, joe didn't fight ottke and beyer, lewis didn't fight byrd

right, mighty mike tyson - 3 great years - 1986, 1987, 1988. Some good wins (looking lethal v Berbick, Pinklon Thomas, a rested Holmes), some not so good wins (Bonecrusher, Tucker both in shell, Mike looking a bit limited).

That was just 3 years, and Tyson's decline was pretty quick. It's a fairly limited body of work that thrives a bit too much on "what if", myth and nostalgia. Isn't it just a myth that as long as Tyson had Mooney or Gus Tomatoes that he would have battered everyone? That Mighty Mike could step in, roll under, come up and knock the fvck out of everyone?

Regardless of who would've won prime 4 prime - and I don't know who - Lewis maintained a standard of excellence for far longer, hardly as scintillating but much more consistency, much more longevity, and any lapses were merely temporary - unlike the Tyson plummet.

[streak]

Come on fellas, Bonecrusher Smith just held for 12 rounds, whilst Tucker gave Tyson a good fight, so did the 38 year old drug addict version when he fought Lewis. Lewis also struggled with Mercer too don't forget.

[streak]

http://www.boxinginsider.com/interviews ... nt-tucker/

Interview with TNT Tucker there...

[Autobarn]

I really think Lewis v Kltschko is an outstanding win, one of the best for a British fighter in a long time. All the fuss that is made of Calzaghe-Lacy...look what Vitali and Lacy went on to do, an interesting comparison.

As to "oh dear, Lewis beat an old Tyson" - this was a huge money fight & boxing is a business. Lewis would have been thick as pigshot not to have gone for such an easy payday. Rival broadcasters HBO and Showtime came together, did a duel broadcast. How often does that happen? The stage massive, the fight a huge success - heavyweight titloe when it meant something, quality champ + Tyson Myth. Calzaghe and RJJ did a poor man's version of this, a fight that earned the love and trust - and likely HOF vote - of US writers around the world.

[Autobarn]

Come on fellas, Bonecrusher Smith just held for 12 rounds, whilst Tucker gave Tyson a good fight, so did the 38 year old drug addict version when he fought Lewis. Lewis also struggled with Mercer too don't forget.

LEWIS IN TOUGH FIGHT SHOCKER - terrible

When Mercer was in shape, & motivated, he was dangerous, as seen v Lewis, Holyfield, Morrison and Witherspoon.

[streak]

In the Tucker interview link I posted, he rates Lewis and Douglas as the best he fought, and reckons he should have beat Tyson, but his hand was broke...

[el_grande_mauro_mina]

Is this the Tyson-Smith fight in which Smith came out of his shell once and rocked Tyson, in the last round, or are you thinking of another Smith fight? Would that be the Tucker fight which saw Tyson sent back-pedalling from a right uppercut early in the fight, or am I mistaken, again? Both men negated Tyson, and both men tagged him, without possessing an eighth of what Lewis would bring.

Terry - these were heavyweight fights - Yes - Tyson was rocked against Smith in the last round and was stunned with an uppercut in the first by Tucker but was in no danger of being floored let alone stopped in either fight - Tyson still won at a canter against a very dangerous heavyweight in Smith and convincingly beat an excellent heavyweight in Tucker - How many times was Lewis rocked in his fights? He was rocked plenty of times but went on to win the fights - its happens with the big boys - you know that Tel!

Tyson would spend the rounds getting tied up, he would then grow frustrated, assume it was going the distance, and allow Lewis to rag him around. Tyson then gets backed up, possibly floored, maybe cut, and knocked out late in the fight. Look at the pattern of his career.

The later pattern of his career - after the 7 or so years in jail? If people can say Ali wasn't the fighter he was before his worldwide ban - then why is Tyson the same fighter after his incareceration? That doesn't seem right to me.

Your gut instinct does not come into it, at all, Lewis, gut and all, won the fight, by throwing punches and scoring a stoppage, so there is not need for speculation.

Course there is need for speculation - Tyson was a shell of the fighter that he was when he fought Lewis - sure Lewis beat Tyson but he didn't beat Mike Tyson the man we all got up at 4am to watch - Thats why there is a forum on here where people can speculate if Rocky Marciano would have beaten a prime Joe Louis or Barry McGuigan would have beaten a prime Eusebio Pedroza etc etc...

Vitali took on the worst Lennox, hit him with everything early, and failed to win, because Lewis landed the more effective shots. That is the same Vitali who is the current consensus #2 in the world.

Vitali and Tyson are two different fighters... Tyson has fantastic handspeed, could hit, had a fantastic jab, fantastic upper body movement, fantastic head movement and had a great chin. In my opinion - capable of beating any heavyweight in history.

[Autobarn]

Tyson had the clap - that's why Douglas beat him.

[hitman_hatton1]

My fondest Lewis memory is the Mercer fight. Tough brawl. Lewis bruised up. Scores come in and Lewis actually cheers, looks excited, and raises his hands, then realises he has shown some emotion, and starts cooly nodding his head, I remember thinknig, "Yeah, he does care!"

Excellent observation. Much more subtle than the chest thumping after he left Rahman wearing Don's crown

I did like the chest thumping. Again it showed that he cared. That post-fight interview was one of his best, looked like he wanted to continue fighting. "I told you you're unknown, you're unknown (looks about a bit). Seen? Kingston, Jamaica, big up!"

I think it was scripted by DG.

i always thought he said "i told u they were on loan there on loan"

cos he points at the belts the moment he said it.

sure your right lewis hugger.

[Autobarn]

Tyson had the clap - that's why Douglas beat him.

Had the clap for Berbick an' all, and a missing toe nail, tough guy, at times.

3-pages and no sign of Stu, when he arrives there will be no escape

so mighty mike could fight through adversity, after all

you learn summat every day, you do

[Rocky Balboa]

In the Tucker interview link I posted, he rates Lewis and Douglas as the best he fought, and reckons he should have beat Tyson, but his hand was broke...

Tyson out-jabbed Tucker when they fought. Tyson was the best fighter Tucker fought!

[Autobarn]

I think Tucker broke his hand early v Tyson and didn't really put in a sterling effort; went defensive for the most.

Did Tucker hurt his jabbing hand or his wanking hand?