BoxRec

Ezzard wrote:I'd agree with Spinks. The right hand would win this fight every time. Foster's best shot would prove too much too.

Charles and Moore, obvioulsy... Johnson would win too.

Not sure about Tunney.

Langford would win early when he was at 175...

Greb would win a decision.

I'd expect as an outsider Qawi qould beat him.

Jones was the best since Spinks. A top fighter but with way too many question marks.

obviously if you're so sure about your fight predictions you should start betting on current fights. someone of your knowledge should never be wrong and make a lot of money. greb?? we all have our opinions and that's fine, but for me it comes from watching fighters' styles and how they would match up against each other. all you have to do is look at the record book to see how great greb was but it's hard for me to see how you could pick greb when the only footage we have is a few seconds of him sparring against o'brien.

BroughtonRulesRefuge wrote:

SaadOffTheDeck wrote: Secondly, you clearly have no concept of what elite is. It also is completely irrelevant to the thread. Funny you mention Robinson, ask him if Burley was elite.

Thirdly, do you have anything to offer in here besides a lot of useless words? Is Roy unbeatable in your world? What is your five?

- I know you have no concept of the difference between truly elite and plain ol' elite and I do. Roy was obviously beatable, so your question reflects your lack reflection as you start up a hissy fit that makes our puppy Collie want to snuggle with you.

Already split off 3 from your 5 as having the best chances, but nobody IS gonna beat Roy Jones. They only have greater or lesser chances, but some of the names being tossed around with such certainty are simply schoolboy ridiculous.

Roy in his brief middle career was Ibro's 15 ranked middle and 6th ranked LH as I recall, much higher than Burley's rankings. The eliteness of fighters has everything to do with how they are ranked and matched in the real world, the one you apparently don't belong to.

LOL, you're a sad individual.

Goodnight, Irene wrote:If it's just five men, this is an easy list at Light-Heavyweight.

The task is decidedly more difficult at Super-Middle. I might be inclined to say impossible, if we're to list five who we think would be favourite against Jones.

Bjerm, you should never be permitted to discuss Roy. How do you type & shake those pom-poms simultaneously, anyway?

I'd give a shot to Liles, Nunn & McClellan at 68. Though unlikely, they all would cause trouble.

SaadOffTheDeck wrote:

Goodnight, Irene wrote:If it's just five men, this is an easy list at Light-Heavyweight.

The task is decidedly more difficult at Super-Middle. I might be inclined to say impossible, if we're to list five who we think would be favourite against Jones.

Bjerm, you should never be permitted to discuss Roy. How do you type & shake those pom-poms simultaneously, anyway?

I'd give a shot to Liles, Nunn & McClellan at 68. Though unlikely, they all would cause trouble.

the second two are good calls

SaadOffTheDeck wrote:

Goodnight, Irene wrote:If it's just five men, this is an easy list at Light-Heavyweight.

The task is decidedly more difficult at Super-Middle. I might be inclined to say impossible, if we're to list five who we think would be favourite against Jones.

Bjerm, you should never be permitted to discuss Roy. How do you type & shake those pom-poms simultaneously, anyway?

I'd give a shot to Liles, Nunn & McClellan at 68. Though unlikely, they all would cause trouble.

the early prime Nunn would have knocked Jones out, I'd argue. Jones leaps in, pulls straight back, circles to his right. A long counter left would have him out of there. If Nunn had remained disciplined and kept his form, I believe Jones would have stayed well away from him.

Floyd Patterson
John Conteh
Bob Foster
Ezzard Charles
Archie Moore

Anyone of these guys would stop him IMO, Jones is not deserving of the praise and hype he gets.

bjermaine wrote:

dempseyfire wrote:The only person claiming Roy as 'the best fighter ever' after Ruiz was Max Kellerman, the same guy who had touted Judah as a future surefire ATG Hall of Famer.

jones is so unpopular with most fans i think due to his arrogance and just for the fact that he was really good. roy jones himself has said that ray robinson was pound for pound the greatest ever but when asked who would have won between him and ray, jones said he would have won because he would be a little too big for robinson.

a lot of people on these boards will dog jones but he's an ATG because he was the best of his era. the fighter of the decade award proves that. he was voted the winner of that award by boxing writers who despise him. jones' problem historically speaking is that he never really had any big fights. he was just really good.

Roy jones wasnt in any big fights because nobody was good enough to give him a fight. not a close fight. not a competitive fight.

anyone who thinks Calzaghe would best the likes of jones is not thinking straight. Jones would eradicate this man! And Monzon would have no chance standing there trying to reach Roy with his slow motion paw of a jab. Quite laughable really!

Why cant people just tell the truth for once?

by the way I find his remarks to be true. People hate to admit to Roy's greatness. They cant bring themselves to admit to it for some reason. FOr instance you often times see Bernard's name over Roy's as if to excuse Bernard for losing to Roy. Fans cant accept his win then talk about how Roy never fought anyone! That's how biased fans can be.

I'm a big fan of Roy's, it's just silly to act as if he would plow through everyone from 160-175 without breaking a sweat.

SaadOffTheDeck wrote:I'm a big fan of Roy's, it's just silly to act as if he would plow through everyone from 160-175 without breaking a sweat.

- You're one of the silly boys here floating names to beat Roy when reality is only a handful would have a credible chance.

Me noting that put you into a visible sweat once you figured you had no defense for Charley Burley and Holman Williams for example.

Am assuming you are talking about Roy when he was at each weight. At middleweight, when he was young, I see him losing to fighters like Robinson, Monzon and Hagler because they were skilled, hard-hitters and much more experienced at the weight. I think that would have overcome Jones' advantage in speed. At super middleweight, when he was slapping around guys like Toney, I don't see him losing to anybody. No way, IMO, does the super-middleweight Jones of 1994-96 lose to Joe C or Ottke. At light heavy, Jones is faster than the all-time greats like Moore, Spinks, Foster and Charles, but they are a level above anybody he fought at that weight. I don't see him losing to some of the guys mentioned, like Conteh, Patterson, Nunn. Qawi would have been a really interesting fight because he was so relentless and could take a beating and keep coming.

BroughtonRulesRefuge wrote:

SaadOffTheDeck wrote:I'm a big fan of Roy's, it's just silly to act as if he would plow through everyone from 160-175 without breaking a sweat.

- You're one of the silly boys here floating names to beat Roy when reality is only a handful would have a credible chance.

Me noting that put you into a visible sweat once you figured you had no defense for Charley Burley and Holman Williams for example.

Just no need to carry on with someone who doesn't know what they are talking about. You don't even understand the question posed in the thread.

giacomino wrote:Am assuming you are talking about Roy when he was at each weight. At middleweight, when he was young, I see him losing to fighters like Robinson, Monzon and Hagler because they were skilled, hard-hitters and much more experienced at the weight.

- Fair points, but let's look closer.

How many times did Robbo get beat at middle? Lost his crown, what, 5x? Sounds very beatable.

And, how many full sized HOF middles did Monzon beat, not welts and jrmids moving up?

Same deal with Marvin. Duran used quickness to give him a very tough fight. Different style from Jones, but the speed easily the equal of a past it Duran or greater and the size and power advantage huge.

Experience being relative. Only Robbo has better ama experience, but doubtful he has much better credentials, and certainly nowhere near the middle division.

Mind you, I don't dismiss these fighters, but some of you looking at the little picture of a diminished Roy today and don't see the one off talent that used to pretty much shut out every fighter out of almost every contested round, or worse.

No one mentioned Moorer so far? He was a beast at LHW.

One may say he did not fight there anyone remotely close to RJJ, and it is true - simply because he didn't stay there too long, but I still think he would be a stylistic nightmare for RJJ. Technically good southpaw with serious reach advantage and great power would give him a lot of trouble.

gregor wrote:No one mentioned Moorer so far? He was a beast at LHW.

One may say he did not fight there anyone remotely close to RJJ, and it is true - simply because he didn't stay there too long, but I still think he would be a stylistic nightmare for RJJ. Technically good southpaw with serious reach advantage and great power would give him a lot of trouble.

He could catch him with something, hard to beat a guy like roy when you're that inexperienced. He had a lot of trouble with Stewart.

BroughtonRulesRefuge wrote:

giacomino wrote:Am assuming you are talking about Roy when he was at each weight. At middleweight, when he was young, I see him losing to fighters like Robinson, Monzon and Hagler because they were skilled, hard-hitters and much more experienced at the weight.

- Fair points, but let's look closer.

How many times did Robbo get beat at middle? Lost his crown, what, 5x? Sounds very beatable.

And, how many full sized HOF middles did Monzon beat, not welts and jrmids moving up?

Same deal with Marvin. Duran used quickness to give him a very tough fight. Different style from Jones, but the speed easily the equal of a past it Duran or greater and the size and power advantage huge.

Experience being relative. Only Robbo has better ama experience, but doubtful he has much better credentials, and certainly nowhere near the middle division.

Mind you, I don't dismiss these fighters, but some of you looking at the little picture of a diminished Roy today and don't see the one off talent that used to pretty much shut out every fighter out of almost every contested round, or worse.

before he fought taver hadnt he lost like 20 rds or something in his career

gregor wrote:No one mentioned Moorer so far? He was a beast at LHW.

One may say he did not fight there anyone remotely close to RJJ, and it is true - simply because he didn't stay there too long, but I still think he would be a stylistic nightmare for RJJ. Technically good southpaw with serious reach advantage and great power would give him a lot of trouble.

Would be a good match, but remember, we're talking just five candidates across Jones' full career --- at LHW alone, there are more than five fighters ahead of Moorer.

bjermaine wrote:

Ezzard wrote:I'd agree with Spinks. The right hand would win this fight every time. Foster's best shot would prove too much too.

Charles and Moore, obvioulsy... Johnson would win too.

Not sure about Tunney.

Langford would win early when he was at 175...

Greb would win a decision.

I'd expect as an outsider Qawi qould beat him.

Jones was the best since Spinks. A top fighter but with way too many question marks.

obviously if you're so sure about your fight predictions you should start betting on current fights. someone of your knowledge should never be wrong and make a lot of money. greb?? we all have our opinions and that's fine, but for me it comes from watching fighters' styles and how they would match up against each other. all you have to do is look at the record book to see how great greb was but it's hard for me to see how you could pick greb when the only footage we have is a few seconds of him sparring against o'brien.

It's a valid point but even so I reckon I'd probably collect on it.

BroughtonRulesRefuge wrote:

giacomino wrote:Am assuming you are talking about Roy when he was at each weight. At middleweight, when he was young, I see him losing to fighters like Robinson, Monzon and Hagler because they were skilled, hard-hitters and much more experienced at the weight.

- Fair points, but let's look closer.

How many times did Robbo get beat at middle? Lost his crown, what, 5x? Sounds very beatable.

And, how many full sized HOF middles did Monzon beat, not welts and jrmids moving up?

Same deal with Marvin. Duran used quickness to give him a very tough fight. Different style from Jones, but the speed easily the equal of a past it Duran or greater and the size and power advantage huge.

Experience being relative. Only Robbo has better ama experience, but doubtful he has much better credentials, and certainly nowhere near the middle division.

Mind you, I don't dismiss these fighters, but some of you looking at the little picture of a diminished Roy today and don't see the one off talent that used to pretty much shut out every fighter out of almost every contested round, or worse.

I'm not looking at him from his current diminished situation today. I think he was a truly great fighter in his prime. My full posts says no one would beat him at super middleweight and that some of the light heavyweights mentioned were far better competition than he faced during his time as light heavyweight champion. I guess I just don't know how he would do against a Spinks or Moore because he never had to face anyone that good. I personally think he would have kicked the crap out of the best opponent of his era, Michalczewski, but it never happened and Michalczewski was no Spinks or Moore or Charles, IMO.
I kind of feel the same way at middleweight, except I remember watching him in his early years and I could see a Monzon or Hagler simply using their experience, doggedness and punching accuracy to win a decision over the young RJ.

Re: Who did Monzon/Hagler beat. Monzon had some solid wins. Benvenuti, Griffith and Napoles were on their way down but were still top fighters when Monzon KO'd them. I realize Napoles was a welterweight moving up, but Benvenuti and Griffith had been middleweights for four or five years when Monzon beat them. Benny Briscoe was no slouch, and Rodrigo Valdez would have been middleweight champion for most of the 1970s if he hadn't run into Monzon.
Hagler's biggest wins were, admittedly, against Duran, Hearns and Mugabi, three guys moving up. But Hearns and Duran both went on to win pieces of the middleweight belt. And Hagler also beat some pretty decent, albeit not HOF opponents, such as Alan Minter, Sibson, Roldan, Hamsho and Obelmejias. None of them, obviously, were as skilled as Jones, but I would have given each of them a shot at the Hopkins that Jones beat in May 1993. That Hopkins wasn't the Hopkins who cleaned out the division in the late 1990s and early 2000s.