Journeymen

[josh fg]

Last time I went to Prizefighter Ovill McKenzie won it so to me it shows that when "turn up at 8 minutes notice" type fighters propperly train they can do a good job on the favorates.

[oliverfennell]

i know some journeymen give it their all 100% of the time (Ernie Smith etc)

Sure you don't mean BILLIE Smith?

All Ernie does is stamp his foot, gurn, look to the crowd, stick his chin out, etc.

[rhino222]

i know some journeymen give it their all 100% of the time (Ernie Smith etc)

Sure you don't mean BILLIE Smith?

All Ernie does is stamp his foot, gurn, look to the crowd, stick his chin out, etc.

definately ernie, although both brothers are great value, turn up at venues with big shiners, then give their all.

[oliverfennell]

Have to disagree. I have never seen Ernie Smith try to win a fight. True, his survival tactics are more entertaining than others, but all his showboating nevertheless IS only a survival tactic.

[lowersmiths]

Just for the record guys I have never gone into a fight believing I could not win. Even to the last bell when I've known I've been behind on points I've always looked for a knock out to win the fight. I ended up fighting one of the home fighters last night a lad from my gym Martyn Grainger because they couldn't match him up and Woolas ended up fighting another lad from my gym Scott Mitchell a good friend of mine. Martyn and me had a proper tear up and were both looking for the knock out. To be honest I should be a cruiserweight and have thought that for some time. I'm 6ft1, I've been fighting giants and I've only been boxing two years. I need to be fighting lads my own size really, that's my aim now to lose 2 stone and fight at cruiser and get some wins under my belt. Watch this space.

Well take inspiration from Lee Swaby, he had a shocking start but went on a terrific run, and if you need real inspiration look up Kirino Garcia's record!

swaby had a good start to his career, then veered off track then got back on it again

[dondada]

Have to disagree. I have never seen Ernie Smith try to win a fight.

You haven't been watching him long enough, then. He has become what you say though - and is a good example of what Rhino doesn't like. He hasn't won for years now and most of his losses are quite lop sided. But he has won a few from memory, if only a few - I've just had a look...he had a winning record ten fights in.

[oliverfennell]

Have to disagree. I have never seen Ernie Smith try to win a fight.

You haven't been watching him long enough, then. He has become what you say though - and is a good example of what Rhino doesn't like. He hasn't won for years now and most of his losses are quite lop sided. But he has won a few from memory, if only a few - I've just had a look...he had a winning record ten fights in.

Quite a lot of journeymen do begin with a winning record (even Buckley) and if I saw E Smith during that time, I have simply forgotten, but when I say I have "never" seen him try to win, I'm talking about in the last 10 years, say. There may have been incidences in that time frame in which he did try, it's just that I didn't see them, and I suspect my Ernie Smith experience is the norm rather than the exception.

[Roco]

decent post and a decent idea, and to me 2 journeymen fighting in a 50/50 fight is more appealing than a boxer who is 15-0 (12) against a 4-43 (1) journeyman!

but...

this type of 50/50 scenario is one of the only ones where the journeyman would actually come to win regardless of his purse. unfortunately most of the journeymen that appear on particular cards know that if they upset the 'house' fighter they will not get work again with that promoter!

i know some journeymen give it their all 100% of the time (Ernie Smith etc) but there are and have been others that are just 'purse collectors' with absolutely no intent to win (and ill name Peter Buckley in this bracket).

i am not in favour of the 'purse grabbing' journeyman and the BBB of C should withdraw licences for extended losing records and for non tryers.

only yesterday some bury (i think) football players were banned for betting on themselves and potentially match fixing. what is the difference between this and some of the crap that goes on in boxing matchmaking?

we...the public...want unpredictable 50/50 fights with boxers playing to win.

the word 'match' in the dictionary would incinuate that the opponents are 'similar'

I agee, I can't stand watching these journeymen who are just there to make up the numbers. Totally pointless and boring to boot.

[dondada]

There may have been incidences in that time frame in which he did try, it's just that I didn't see them

Yes, that's right - that's exactly what I'm saying. There's no 'may' about it - I've seen them.

Over the last few years, he's been mainly a 36-40 fighter though.

[jim wright1]

I think the problem with journeyman is how the 'sport' is administered. It's not the fault of the fighters, the worst thing for a journeyman is for the phone to stop ringing and that is what happens when they win a few over prospects.

Very tricky situation for the BBB of C to control though, unless we went to a kind of a league system where fighters can only fight each other from a comparable league (ranking). That would liven things up a bit.

[terrez]

I would love the idea of Journey men fighting it off against eachother for a title and prize, ala Prizefighter as you say.

Think then it would bring out the true fighting spirit of these men boxing does owe alot too, and also im sure they would all have a great time togeather.

Don't know how profitible it would be for the host but it would be a good night for sure.

What would be the citeria for entry?

How about minimum 30 fights with a 2-1 loss record or something like that??

[Counter-puncher]

Have to disagree. I have never seen Ernie Smith try to win a fight.

You haven't been watching him long enough, then. He has become what you say though - and is a good example of what Rhino doesn't like. He hasn't won for years now and most of his losses are quite lop sided. But he has won a few from memory, if only a few - I've just had a look...he had a winning record ten fights in.

x2

[berto89!]

reggie strickland wot a hero won 66 (KO 14) + lost 276 (KO 25) + drawn 17

[rhino222]

Have to disagree. I have never seen Ernie Smith try to win a fight.

You haven't been watching him long enough, then. He has become what you say though - and is a good example of what Rhino doesn't like. He hasn't won for years now and most of his losses are quite lop sided. But he has won a few from memory, if only a few - I've just had a look...he had a winning record ten fights in.

x2

yes, but id rather see a limited fighter try and have a punch up than a gifted fighter cover up and coast to defeat !!!!!!!!!!!!..... and this happens far far too often.

[Benn Tenn]

Out of interest how much does a journeyman get paid for a fight?

[dondada]

Out of interest how much does a journeyman get paid for a fight?

I know a north-east promoter had to pay Tony Booth a few grand for doing his thing simply to get a very average heavyweight a fight.

This isn't the norm though - but they get more than the up and comers, usually.

[mickey1975]

a journeyman gets various amounts.from £800 for a dinner show to £2000 for a sky show.im not saying they come home with that,though

[whicker]

Mark Nilsen 6-17 v Simeon Cover 16-42-2

Nilsen is an interesting character, as he actually won his first 6, and has lost all the rest!

...

No-one comes close to the legendary Len Wickwar- three fights IN A NIGHT was nothing to him- and he won more than he lost.

[oliverfennell]

Weird interview with Ernie Smith in BN this week. He says the younger fighters "don't have any respect" these days because they just try to knock out the journeymen. Well, didn't they always try to do that? And what's wrong with that anyway? You can make an impression by stopping a known survivor. If, after 161 fights, Ernie expects other boxers to take it easy on him, then he hasn't learned all that much! It's a ruthless sport and any boxer should be prepared to finish a fight early if he can.

He also says the young boxers will learn nothing by going for the KO. Well, of course a string of early KOs does not teach a great deal, but again it's only to be expected that the young 'uns will gun for this, and it is the journeyman's job to prevent them from achieving it - not the prospects job to not try for it!

Furthermore, Ernie complains that the pro game is all about money "these days". Hasn't it always been?? And again says the young boxers are only thinking of the money as they go for the KO. Well, why the hell not? Tyson didn't become a millionaire because he stood back and picked his shots.

And anyway, it's a bit strange for him to complain about people being motivated by money when he is one of the journeymen who perform solely to survive, because they know to win would damage their own earning potential.

[mickey1975]

i have heared it would be frowned upon if someone went all out to knock out buckley.from another boxer as well

[oliverfennell]

i have heared it would be frowned upon if someone went all out to knock out buckley.from another boxer as well

But why?

I get the whole "respect" idea, but surely any boxer with self-respect would not want his opponent to give him anything but his best?

[Deserter]

i have heared it would be frowned upon if someone went all out to knock out buckley.from another boxer as well

Which says it all about the competitive nature of those fights.
Oliver, I read that interview and had exactly the same thoughts - his mindset illustrates all that's wrong about boxing and the journeymen syndrome.

[mickey1975]

i thinks its all about him getting out of there in one piece,he is highly repsected.it wouldnt make any young buck look clever wiping him out

[Deserter]

i thinks its all about him getting out of there in one piece,he is highly repsected.it wouldnt make any young buck look clever wiping him out

But that's not the point is it? If the public are paying for a 'competitive' fight, they deserve that, and that means each boxer trying his hardest to win, not one trying to survive and the other trying to carry him.

[jonp]

I think a big problem with the Journeymen is the refs They seem to score their card before the bout starts.If a lad is gonna fight real hard and get a 40 .36 no matter what surely anybody is eventualy gonna think why try so hard
1.more bruises ,chance of cuts
2.better chance of getting stopped cant fight for a month
3.Going to be absolutly shattered for the same money
4.Ref isnt going to give me a round let alone the decision.

So i can see why some after trying hard and getting nothing just go thru the motions in the end and get the same scorecard as if theyd made a big effort.

Recent examples

Mo khaleed vs Kev Buckley
Sid Razak vs Alphonso veiyra (might be spelt wrong)
Adam Wilcox vs Quinton Hillocks
iv also taken Billy smith and Baz Carey into fights and im not saying that any of these lads deserved an outright win but its the fact all of them wasnt even given a round in fights where some observers had them winning.

I just think if there was a bit more reward for a good effort we would see more good efforts being made.