BoxRec

WHAT ALWAYS IMPRESSED ME ABOUT BUGNER WAS THAT HE WAS A BORN SURVIVER

I think its because he lived clean. Alot of guys that are 'punchy' lived their
lives like it was going out of fashion...partied, drunk, did drunks etc and that
combined with taking hard blows eats away at the mind and body.

Bugner was damned nice and told a good yarn. I wish he was still here in Oz.

I'd back Quarry for all the reasons given. It's a good match though and a close fight.

I don't think that these guys are that far apart in skill but Bugner was a fighter who could be simply out-worked by lesser opponents, let alone one who was at a similar ability level.

Quarry would give it all and Joe would be looking to do just enough.

Interesting match, a lot of it depends on Bugner, if he felt he could win then he had the tools to nick a decision, but you have to go with Quarry, who would certainly come to fight.

Robinson wrote:That was in 1982, when Bugner was not exactly in tip top form....what was
Quarry like in 1982?

And last time I checked Cooney had a some decent power. I would say with
confidence Cooney hit alot harder than Quarry.

You are comparing two different eras. Quarry was a simply a better fighter than Bugner, who was cautious, fought to survive and was not a puncher; Quarry was cute, fought to win and could whack. He also loved the big boys.

Robinson wrote:That was in 1982, when Bugner was not exactly in tip top form....what was
Quarry like in 1982?

And last time I checked Cooney had a some decent power. I would say with
confidence Cooney hit alot harder than Quarry.

"Cooney hit a lot harder than Quarry"

Not sure I agree with that.

bennie wrote:

Robinson wrote:That was in 1982, when Bugner was not exactly in tip top form....what was
Quarry like in 1982?

And last time I checked Cooney had a some decent power. I would say with
confidence Cooney hit alot harder than Quarry.

You are comparing two different eras. Quarry was a simply a better fighter than Bugner, who was cautious, fought to survive and was not a puncher; Quarry was cute, fought to win and could whack. He also loved the big boys.

Jerry used his size and speed to good advantage against big guys. He moved well, and countered beautifully. Slow big guys like Lyle and Mac Foster were meat for Quarry. Bugner would have presented different problems because Bugner - while lacking the speed of Ali - had good ring smarts and, I suspect, Quarry would have had more difficultly countering Bugner's defense-first style.

I think Quarry would have outpointed Bugner, but Bugner would have been a formidible opponent.

Remember, too, we are talking about 1972. Quarry would have had way too much experience for Joe at this point.

Yes I do think Cooney hit harder than Quarry.

Robinson wrote:Yes I do think Cooney hit harder than Quarry.

Well. you left out "alot" this time.

That was the part I disagreed with.

You could argue he hit alot harder, but ill sit on
the bench and drop the 'alot' ;)

Robinson wrote:You could argue he hit alot harder, but ill sit on
the bench and drop the 'alot' ;)

It might have just seemed a lot harder because Cooney was almost exclusively landing it on 2nd raters and / or guys well past their best.

Whereas Quarry fought a lot of fights against the top men in a very strong era.

Quarry seemed to be more accurate and effective with his counters
and landing those shots with good timing.

Cooney however seemed to blast away from the outset. Not to many
men withstood shots from Cooney.

I think both guys came from an exciting talent rich era of HW boxing.
One is considered more classical than the other however.

Robinson wrote: Not to many men withstood shots from Cooney.

Kym, you seem to have ignored my point that most of the guys that fell against Cooney were either 2nd raters or 1st raters well past their best.

What would you say were Cooney's best 3 wins?

His KO over Eddie Gregg who was pretty decent was a good
achievement after his lay off.

His stoppages over the 3 past it legends of the 70s was impressive
but I agree these were shells of what they were. However you
can not deny the fact that he stopped them with power and authority
that one could not dispute.

Its not as though he was taken the distance by them, struggling
against them etc. I know mr Gran is insistent that Young threw the
Cooney fight...but..

I personally feel, that Quarry was a better counter guy who picked
his shots nicely and had better placed power blows.
Whereas Cooney had a genuine whack that thumped hard at a man
from the ouset.

Collins...you are not suppose to be discussing boxing ! what wil your
detractors about the place have to say about this.

Quarry did not hit on a par (or better) with Cooney. That's laughable.

I've seen a photo of Quarry and Bugner sparring. Quarry didn't even bother wearing a headguard.

bennie wrote:I've seen a photo of Quarry and Bugner sparring. Quarry didn't even bother wearing a headguard.

Head gear is mostly for protection against cuts. If one fighter has it on it is some protection against accidental butts for both fighters. Quarry might have sparred w/o the head gear so that he could see punches better.

Can you imagine Quarry losing to little Marvis Frazier on a landslide decision. It also happened to be the most boring fight I have ever seen. This must have been the only punch Bugner threw and he looks pretty scared throwing it. You have to remember Bugner boxed much of his career in England. He was booed out of the ring so many times for his tame approach, he makes Audley Harrison look dangerous.

bennie wrote:

Can you imagine Quarry losing to little Marvis Frazier on a landslide decision. It also happened to be the most boring fight I have ever seen. This must have been the only punch Bugner threw and he looks pretty scared throwing it. You have to remember Bugner boxed much of his career in England. He was booed out of the ring so many times for his tame approach, he makes Audley Harrison look dangerous.

Distinctly remember that fight as a kid round at my nan and granddad's...

Bugner barely moved. Marvis at least worked in there. Afterwards Bugner tried to claim he was robbed and I seem to remember some racial slur during the TV interview post fight.

We all started the fight cheering for Joe but by round 4 we were all cheering for Marvis. Bugner was that kind of guy.

bennie wrote:

Can you imagine Quarry losing to little Marvis Frazier on a landslide decision. It also happened to be the most boring fight I have ever seen. This must have been the only punch Bugner threw and he looks pretty scared throwing it. You have to remember Bugner boxed much of his career in England. He was booed out of the ring so many times for his tame approach, he makes Audley Harrison look dangerous.

The 38-year-old Jerry Quarry who struggled against a light-heavyweight named James Williams in a 1983 comeback? Yes, I can imagine him losing a landslide decision to young Marvin Frazier in 1983.

raylawpc wrote:

bennie wrote:

Can you imagine Quarry losing to little Marvis Frazier on a landslide decision. It also happened to be the most boring fight I have ever seen. This must have been the only punch Bugner threw and he looks pretty scared throwing it. You have to remember Bugner boxed much of his career in England. He was booed out of the ring so many times for his tame approach, he makes Audley Harrison look dangerous.

The 38-year-old Jerry Quarry who struggled against a light-heavyweight named James Williams in a 1983 comeback? Yes, I can imagine him losing a landslide decision to young Marvin Frazier in 1983.

Again, eras are crossed too conveniently. Bugner was 33 when he did nothing against Frazier - not 38.
Joe was never in love with boxing and should have stuck to throwing the discus.

bennie wrote:

raylawpc wrote:

bennie wrote:

Can you imagine Quarry losing to little Marvis Frazier on a landslide decision. It also happened to be the most boring fight I have ever seen. This must have been the only punch Bugner threw and he looks pretty scared throwing it. You have to remember Bugner boxed much of his career in England. He was booed out of the ring so many times for his tame approach, he makes Audley Harrison look dangerous.

The 38-year-old Jerry Quarry who struggled against a light-heavyweight named James Williams in a 1983 comeback? Yes, I can imagine him losing a landslide decision to young Marvin Frazier in 1983.

Again, eras are crossed too conveniently. Bugner was 33 when he did nothing against Frazier - not 38.
Joe was never in love with boxing and should have stuck to throwing the discus.

I'm not defending Joe, bennie. But you asked "Can you imagine Quarry losing to little Marvis Frazier on a landslide decision?" When it comes to the 1983 version of Quarry, the answer is yes.

Joe is thus one of the few men to lose to both father and son, a rather ignominious honour. His fight here with Joe Frazier raised everyone's hopes that Bugner could make it but I just think that Frazier Senior MADE Bugner fight (Frazier made you fight for your life, in fact) or maybe it was Bugner just having his one day. He let the entire country down when he fought Ali for the title.

Bugner wasn't too game vs Ali in the first fight . . .he ran away all night and won 2 rounds at most.

It may seem from my posts that I'm a Bugner 'hater' but I'm not actually . . I even kinda like his smart-alecky persona and how he liked to play the villain at times, I found it amusing. But in the ring the guy was not in the class many seem to want to put him in. Boxing is full of tales of athletically gifted guys who just didn't have the 'right stuff.' Bugner was a very good fighter but not in the class of the elite heavyweights.

mercman wrote:

Jerry Quarry vs Joe Bugner 1972

Joe is thus one of the few men to lose to both father and son, a rather ignominious honour. His fight here with Joe Frazier raised everyone's hopes that Bugner could make it but I just think that Frazier Senior MADE Bugner fight (Frazier made you fight for your life, in fact) or maybe it was Bugner just having his one day. He let the entire country down when he fought Ali for the title.

He was poor in his title fight with Ali but he wasn't in their fight two years before. Bugner went over to the USA and was very game, giving Ali a good fight over 12 rounds. Also the Frazier fight wasn't Bugner's one day. He won and defended the European title lots of times and had plenty of wins over other good fighters - even when he was knocking on a bit.

ps Sure, Joe Frazier made people fight but normally this meant his opponents took a battering and got stopped. That didn't happen to Bugner. He gave Frazier a tremendous battle.

Tremendous battle indeed, but one that would have ended in the 10th had Joe chosen to follow up when Bugner was basically helpless on his feet after absorbing that left hook. Joe clearly held up (which I admire) and let his man slowly fall, but I KNOW what Foreman, Ali, Marciano, and others would have legally done in that situation. The fight would have ended right there with one more big shot.