BoxRec

ourkid1984 wrote:I never thought Pavlik was as good as he was made out to be anyway. He always fights hand picked oppenments who are smaller than him or he thinks are over the hill and that's why he thought Hopkins because he always banged on about that he could beat Calazaghe.

Pavliks natural weight is probably in the super middle range and so when he fights middleweights or even natural light middles he looks good and powerful.

I think Williams can beat him, if he manages to avoid Pavliks big swings early on.

Miranda was not smaller or over the hill, nor was Taylor. His natural weight is whatever he can get down to, which is middleweight.

This is a very good fight for the division. Pavlik looked very small compared to Hopkins in their fight, he's a big middleweight, but he isn't THAT big. Taylor looked the bigger man too.

jamesmcdonnell wrote:This is a very good fight for the division. Pavlik looked very small compared to Hopkins in their fight, he's a big middleweight, but he isn't THAT big. Taylor looked the bigger man too.

I think Pavlik outweighed Taylor on the night in both of their fights. Hopkins was a good 10 pounds heavier than Pavlik in the ring.

Counter-puncher wrote:tony i think pavlik would need a transplant of his entire lower body to put himself into position to KO williams, Pav just too flatfooted and slow to get his shots off, i think williams will stop him getting set with his feet which he needs to do.

I hope your right mate I really do cos Im a big Williams fan BUT I just thnk if Pavlik lands he'll get him, I also think Williams will take him on too mate as he did Margarito.. :(

If Williams boxes and uses his skills I think he'd make Pavlik look stupid and cumbersome BUT I just have a dodgy feeling that he'll fight him mate..

I'm going for a Pavlik KO too. But with very little confidence. Pavlik may have crap footwork, but he can wallop massively. And let's be honest, Williams would be suited better at 154lbs. I can see Pavlik landing at some stage, so let's see what happens when he does.

williams on pts.

all the way.

Once-beaten American duo Paul Williams and Kelly Pavlik duke it out for Pavlik’s world middleweight title in October. Williams, nicknamed “The Punisher”, is on a hot run since Puerto Rican southpaw Carlos Quintana took a shock 12-round decision over him last year. Williams cruised to a 12-round decision over gifted Florida veteran Ronald “Winky” Wright last time out and belted remarkable Denver veteran Verno Phillips in eight rounds before that. He also belted out Quintana in the first round of a quick rematch - a sparkling revenge win - and 17-1 middleweight Andy Kolle, also in the first.
At 37-1 (27) the rangy, bird-legged Williams is a man who can actually make welterweight (where he once licked Antonio Margarito) but moves up and down the weights to secure work. He makes it look easy.
Pavlik tried the same against canny Philadelphia veteran Bernard Hopkins last year, moving up from middleweight to light-heavy (well, 170 pounds). He made it look impossible. Pavlik took a real pasting from Hopkins, who was coming off a loss to Welshman Joe Calzaghe but in front of huge Pavlik support boxed the straight-ahead favourite to a standstill and simply romped to the points. This is bad news for the defending champion because Williams knows how to use his height and reach in classic stick and move fashion and will undoubtedly look to develop the jab, as Hopkins did, although in fairness to the gaunt-looking Pavlik, nicknamed “Ghost”, at middleweight Kelly can undoubtedly bang at 35-1 (31) and won his title with a stunning come-from-behind stoppage of a previously unbeaten Jermain Taylor in 2007, a man he convincingly outpointed just a few months later. These were the days when Pavlik looked like one of the best pound for pound fighters in the business. He destroyed our own Gary Lockett round this time (three rounds).
The 27-year-old Pavlik may have gained from the Hopkins lesson, however, as Williams gained from Quintana, and wore down Mexico’s rugged and experienced Marco Antonio Rubio in nine typically remorseless rounds last time out in February, although Pavlik wasn’t able to floor Rubio and his inactivity since is a reflection on how much his star has dimmed. This is the chance for Pavlik to redeem himself against boxing’s biggest bogeyman, a 28-year-old who can whack himself alongside his better boxing skills, a naturally quicker man. a stinking southpaw.
Nevertheless, I have a feeling the greater natural strength, power and aggression of Pavlik makes this 50-50. It won’t be easy (obviously), but Pavlik brings home the bacon.

Dioufy wrote:I'm going for a Pavlik KO too. But with very little confidence. Pavlik may have crap footwork, but he can wallop massively. And let's be honest, Williams would be suited better at 154lbs. I can see Pavlik landing at some stage, so let's see what happens when he does.

I also see Pavlik landing at some stage. He has a lot of power there and Williams hasn't got the best defense. But the great thing about Williams is, his offense is his defense, so I expect him to be overwhelming Pavlik from the get-go. I don't see it being Williams outboxing Pavlik, because Williams isn't really a "boxer", he just has every punch in the book and goes on the offensive . It's a weird style for a guy with his attributes. He's actually a pressure fighter. While I am concerned about his ability to take one of Pavliks punches, he's shown an excellent chin so far whereas Pavlik has been hurt SEVERAL times. So the question may be, can Pavlik take Williams punches?

Either way, I just see Williams having too much volume for Pavlik and forcing a stoppage mid rounds. Pavlik was exposed as one dimensional by B-Hop and he's up against it here. Interesting to note, Williams has the height and reach advantages.

It is a strange one. Pavlik is actually taller but Williams has the greater reach.

Maybe I have been watching the wrong Paul Williams fights, but since when is he fleet footed? For the most part he seems very stationary to me and when he was faced when a fast moving opponent he struggled to find the target. I think the fight will largely be a toe to toe battle and I'm leaning towards Pavlik, although without any certainty.

bennie wrote:It is a strange one. Pavlik is actually taller but Williams has the greater reach.

It happens occasionally. Dzinzirul is 6'0 feet and only has a 69 inch reach. 82 is freakishly long for a 6'1 fighter. Williams doesn't really use his reach though.

I seriously have my doubts about Williams being 6'1. I think hes more like 6'3

crusader, he's not fleetfooted like a Whittaker but he does a great job of throwing 1-2-3 shots, pivoting to his right and throwing more.

basically, IMO, he doesn't have to do a lot of moving to totally mess with Pavlik's rythmn.

did Hopkins need to move a lot against Pavlik or Trinidad? just those minimal shifts making Pavlik lift his back leg up again and again and again. keep pavlik's hands occupied by throwing little flurries- pavlik doesn't counterpucnh too much he covers up more- , move off the flurries and flurry again. and while Pavlik plonks his feet down and prepares to throw, Williams will be throwing again. and again. and again. IMO

I think the majority of the struggles Pavlik had against Hopkins were due to the fact he couldn't get in range to punch because Hopkins was always moving. Not just slight pivots but nonstop footwork in circles around Pavlik. I haven't seen Williams fight like that and even if he has, I doubt he would be in the same league as BHOP, who arguably has the best footwork in boxing.

Williams hasn't had to worry about significant power coming back at him in the middle of his never ending flurries. He leaves his chin way out in the open and was nailed flush multiple times by Wright. In my opinion he is not going to be able to soundly outbox Pavlik and he will be hit harder than ever before by a bigger guy. Pavlik has been in there with fighters who hit as hard as Williams, are faster, and slicker. Thats why I'm leaning towards Pavlik, but Williams is such an unorthodox punching machine that I can never be confident.

crusader wrote:I think the majority of the struggles Pavlik had against Hopkins were due to the fact he couldn't get in range to punch because Hopkins was always moving. Not just slight pivots but nonstop footwork in circles around Pavlik. I haven't seen Williams fight like that and even if he has, I doubt he would be in the same league as BHOP, who arguably has the best footwork in boxing.

Pavlik been in there with fighter who hit as hard as Williams, are faster, and slicker.

.

as for williams movement all i can say is have a look at williams margarito again because williams was moving the majority of that fight, in a constant rythmn of punch-move punch-move. hopkins footwork is for sure more polished than williams', and williams has a slight bambi look to him at times (though i suspect this will, like Trinidad, be much better at higher weights) but i disagree that the 41YO hopkins can move nonstop round pavlik but the 27 or whatever YO Williams somehow can't do it. i disagree strongly in fact.

williams who could keep moving around a 160lbs welterweight Toni, who himself eventually managed to cut down the movement of cotto, but fails to move aroudn a noptoriously and obviously heavyfooted 170lbs+ fighter like pavlik? i don't buy that at all mate no offence obviously

also disagree totally that pavlik has been in with faster slicker fighters than williams. taylor is as good as it gets there and he can't maintain both movement and punching for more than periodic outputs. maybe slick is the wrong word for williams but i personally doubt taylor's handspeed is quicker than williams.

The thing with the Margarito fight is that Toni wasnt throwing punches till the second half. It is relatively easy to look good moving around a guy when nothing is coming back and actually I don't recall Williams movement being so much of a factor when compared to his massive work rate over the first 8 rounds, that's what really won him the fight. In the second half Margarito started to open up and Williams started to struggle. Pavlik will be bringing the pressure right away. I'm not really sold on Williams hand speed either. If he has good hand speed and footwork why was he easily out boxed by Quintana? Williams nonstop offense will make him much more susceptible to Pavliks attacks in my opinion and his habit of leaving his chin up will lead to him getting caught by a big guy who isn't is going to put pressure on him like never before. Can Williams handle his own medicine?

But I still think its virtually a 50/50 fight. There is just something about that awkward style of Williams that will make him hard to beat, but I think he is meeting a guy who can do it.

crusader wrote: I'm not really sold on Williams hand speed either. If he has good hand speed and footwork why was he easily out boxed by Quintana? .

becuase quintana is a welterweight. because whatever his faults quintana is a pretty damn quick and slick boxer. at welter. and in this fight williams' hand and foot speed don't need to be good compared with a quick 147lb slickster like quintana but a distinctly plodding 160lbs puncher. which they are. totally different kettle of fish and anyway, once williams worked out that A quintana couldnt' really hurt him and B he had to corner quintana and get off first, negating quintana's speed, then he strecthed the guy.

i agree its a 50/50 type fight its just a 50/50 that for once i have a very strong suspicion one way rather than sitting on the fence.

crusader wrote:. There is just something about that awkward style of Williams that will make him hard to beat, but I think he is meeting a guy who can do it.

for the record i would say a hopkins-type counterpuncher (not thast there are any around 160 that i can think of) or a glen johnson-type pressurefighting beast, are the types i would think would give williams problem

When I first saw this topic I tohught Kelly Pavlik was fighting Danny Williams

For what its worth I think Williams will comfortably.

Paul Williams - the most avoided, the most underrated, a man ducked by fighters from strawweight up to heavyweight.

Frankly I am sick of hearing about Paul Effing Williams on Internet forums. Ppl like him because he'll fight anyone and fight at any weight, but that's because he's so not an attraction in boxing, and has a very ugly and ungainly style.

Don't like either fighter, have no interest in their fight. Watch the super 6 instead

hahahahaha. could it be, autobarn criticising a fighter for having an ugly style?

the same 'barn who about once per day for a while was saying how much it annoyed him that honest un-flashy pressure fighters like Murray get downgraded on boxrec in favour of flashy fighters with 'check hooks', all style over substance, he would say.

but williams has an ugly and ungainly style, not attractive.

watch the super 6 instead though, eh, 'barn, so you can watch the incredibly slick and aesthetically pleasing Carl froch

bennie wrote:At 37-1 (27) the rangy, bird-legged Williams is a man who can actually make welterweight (where he once licked Antonio Margarito) but moves up and down the weights to secure work. He makes it look easy.

Williams cannot make welterweight safely. The last time he made it was over a year ago and he's put on muscle since then. You will not see Paul Williams at welterweight again.

crusader wrote:

bennie wrote:It is a strange one. Pavlik is actually taller but Williams has the greater reach.

It happens occasionally. Dzinzirul is 6'0 feet and only has a 69 inch reach. 82 is freakishly long for a 6'1 fighter. Williams doesn't really use his reach though.

I seriously have my doubts about Williams being 6'1. I think hes more like 6'3

I'm with you, Paul Williams is taller than 6' 1". I'd imagine him and Pavlik are near the same height as each other.

I'd say they're both 6'2".

Margarito v Williams

Williams in the stats, was reported as only having a 1/2 inch reach advantage over Margarito ?

Yet boxrec have Antonio at 73" vs Williams' 82" on the stats.

Dont add up.

G0mez wrote:Margarito v Williams

Williams in the stats, was reported as only having a 1/2 inch reach advantage over Margarito ?

Yet boxrec have Antonio at 73" vs Williams' 82" on the stats.

Dont add up.

Reach isn't arm length, though. Boxrec reach stats are usually from fist to fist, so it's interesting to compare them to height. Williams has wide shoulders.