BoxRec

jamesmcdonnell wrote:

Emerson Poncey Name Ghent wrote:

stujones wrote:Its rediculous, especially as Cotto is a 147 lbs champion. If this fight is between 140 and 147, why cannot Cotto's Welter title be on the line.

Because it's not a welterweight fight. The WBO, for once, are correct.

Berto must be pissed.

It IS a welterweight fight, as stated by others, it's over 140 and under 147.

indeed 147 is just the maximum a fighter can weight to fight for a welter title anything under doesnt matter

ala roy jones at 189 i think winning the heavy title from ruiz

Listen to yourselves, lads. If catchweights are okay for title fights, then trust me, it won't be long before heavyweight starts forcing opponents to fight at their preferred weight, or move on and find someone else.

Boxing is dying.

The irony of all this is come fight night both will weigh above 147 pounds anyway.

Dioufy wrote:

stujones wrote:and yes had Hatton chosen to come in at 141 lbs to fight Collazo - then he would still be sanctioned for the title.

The day anything like that happens again, is the day I stop watching boxing. I mean it.

Even if it was Hatton's choice to come in light and fast?

The rights and wrongs of what's happening with the weights is a different argument. This is a Welterweight fight.

Pacman is giving away natural weight and all Cotto is being asked to do is reach a comprimise.

Sugar Ray Leonard pulled a much worse stunt when getting LaLonde to come down to Super middleweight, but also defend his Light heavyweight title at the same time.

stujones wrote:

Dioufy wrote:

stujones wrote:and yes had Hatton chosen to come in at 141 lbs to fight Collazo - then he would still be sanctioned for the title.

The day anything like that happens again, is the day I stop watching boxing. I mean it.

Even if it was Hatton's choice to come in light and fast?

Yes.

Its happend throughout boxing history. Even Pacquiao did it himself - a contracted 147 lbs, he comes in 142 pounds.

I can see your point if it was contracted, but if it is done as a tactical manover - then I don't see the problem. DLH was much more effective under the Middleweight limit (for Hopkins) than he was on it (vs Sturm)

I don't have a problem with catchweight fights, I have a problem with catchweight fights for world titles.

Dioufy wrote:I don't have a problem with catchweight fights, I have a problem with catchweight fights for world titles.

Okay, still I can see your concern if it was stipulated - like has been with this fight with Cotto... still don't see a problem with a fighter moving up trying to utlise his speed to his best of his ability and it being for the title (providing he is in the limit of the weight).

I guess, we will agree to differ.

What about the Heavyweights then. If Haye came in one pound above the cruiser limit - would you discount his challenge to Vitali? Whats the "correct" weight for Heavyweight?

opticald wrote:

oliverfennell wrote:

opticald wrote:Blame Pacquaio this is all his doing, the catchweight bitch

Poor Cotto, FORCED against his will to take this fight, against a guy who has spent the majority of his career fighting 1-7 divisions below him. Cry for Cotto, who will likely have an on-the-night advantage of 10-15lb. It really is disgusting he has to fight that "bitch", especially when he'll have to drop an entire POUND from his last registered weight. Good god, I shudder to think how he'll manage it, short of having an embalmer suck all the fluid out of his body and a surgeon take off both legs below the knee.

I love that argument.

"It's only a pound!"

Well why make Cotto come in at 145 then? If it's "only a pound" and not a big deal at all, why stipulate it? I know why, but seemingly you don't.

I don't care where Pacman has been til now. He beat Oscar at 147 and Hatton at 140. He wants to fight Cotto for the welterweight title, then fight at 147, don't make him WEAKEN himself so you have more of a chance. Then don't campaign for more titles in boxing and say you want to fight for a new catchweight title.

Simply put, he is becoming known as "the catchweight bitch" among boxing circles.

"Boxing circles" just like to jump on whoever is the hot fighter of the moment.

Yes, I DO see the point about Cotto dropping a pound or two, but what I was pointing out is that he AGREED to it. Surely Pacquaio coming UP five pounds is as much - if not more - of a concession than Cotto coming down one or two?

It used to be the trend that the bigger fighter would be criticised for targetting the smaller one (Oscar-Manny being a prime example). But now that Pacquiaio is the hot ticket, the critics shift the goalposts.

Stu, as far as I am aware, there is no minimum weight for a heavyweight if the state comission says it's okay. Look at Roy Jones jr - didn't he weigh about 190lbs for Ruiz? However, my point is thus, if catchweight fights are sanctioned by world championship organisations, then, IMO, it won't be long before the big boys like Wlad, Vitali, Valuev and other future big heavyweights are cast aside. Take this for example, if Chagaev wanted to fight at a catchweight for his former title, then surely he would, if he could, put a maximum weight of around 230lbs (and that will probably create more 'world championships'), alienating the big boys. Why fight them when you can defend your title openly against smaller guys. And I don't know about you, but I enjoy watching these lumbering heavyweights dance around for proper world title, like Valuev, Vitali and Wlad do.

Just my opinion, matey.

oliverfennell wrote:
"Boxing circles" just like to jump on whoever is the hot fighter of the moment.

Yes, I DO see the point about Cotto dropping a pound or two, but what I was pointing out is that he AGREED to it. Surely Pacquaio coming UP five pounds is as much - if not more - of a concession than Cotto coming down one or two?

It used to be the trend that the bigger fighter would be criticised for targetting the smaller one (Oscar-Manny being a prime example). But now that Pacquiaio is the hot ticket, the critics shift the goalposts.

Well, lets see if you're consistant with this view in the future.

All this criticism of Pacquaios team asking for a catchweight ignores the fact that Cotto wants to come into a Welterweight fight as a Super Middleweight. 2 Years ago everyone would assume Cotto would kill Pacquaio at 147

opticald wrote:

oliverfennell wrote:
"Boxing circles" just like to jump on whoever is the hot fighter of the moment.

Yes, I DO see the point about Cotto dropping a pound or two, but what I was pointing out is that he AGREED to it. Surely Pacquaio coming UP five pounds is as much - if not more - of a concession than Cotto coming down one or two?

It used to be the trend that the bigger fighter would be criticised for targetting the smaller one (Oscar-Manny being a prime example). But now that Pacquiaio is the hot ticket, the critics shift the goalposts.

Well, lets see if you're consistant with this view in the future.

Why on earth wouldn't I be? I'm not among the legions of fans who continually change position after fights to say "I told you so" and to suit whatever their current agenda is.

Dioufy wrote:Stu, as far as I am aware, there is no minimum weight for a heavyweight if the state comission says it's okay. Look at Roy Jones jr - didn't he weigh about 190lbs for Ruiz? However, my point is thus, if catchweight fights are sanctioned by world championship organisations, then, IMO, it won't be long before the big boys like Wlad, Vitali, Valuev and other future big heavyweights are cast aside. Take this for example, if Chagaev wanted to fight at a catchweight for his former title, then surely he would, if he could, put a maximum weight of around 230lbs (and that will probably create more 'world championships'), alienating the big boys. Why fight them when you can defend your title openly against smaller guys. And I don't know about you, but I enjoy watching these lumbering heavyweights dance around for proper world title, like Valuev, Vitali and Wlad do.

Just my opinion, matey.

But technically, Hatton ELECTING to fight Collazo at 141 lbs - not in some contracted weight agreed by everyone, but something entirely of Hatton's doing means that it is NOT a catchweight bout.

Providing you are over between 140 and 147 lbs you are a Welterweight.

I can see your point regarding stipulations and pre-contracted weights, personally I don't agree (as its not as if a gun was pointed at Cotto's head and both are fighting at Welter).... I can see your reasoning. However, if a fight is contracted to be between 140-147 lbs and a fighter comes in at 141 cause its a tactical thing, and the other comes in at 147 - then I cannot see why your so against that being for a title.

Roy was a heavyweight when he fought Ruiz, remember it was before the Cruiserweight limit was moved up.

oliverfennell wrote:

opticald wrote:

oliverfennell wrote:
"Boxing circles" just like to jump on whoever is the hot fighter of the moment.

Yes, I DO see the point about Cotto dropping a pound or two, but what I was pointing out is that he AGREED to it. Surely Pacquaio coming UP five pounds is as much - if not more - of a concession than Cotto coming down one or two?

It used to be the trend that the bigger fighter would be criticised for targetting the smaller one (Oscar-Manny being a prime example). But now that Pacquiaio is the hot ticket, the critics shift the goalposts.

Well, lets see if you're consistant with this view in the future.

Why on earth wouldn't I be? I'm not among the legions of fans who continually change position after fights to say "I told you so" and to suit whatever their current agenda is.

When catchweight fights start creeping through the sport, you will be in no position to criticise them.

Further news about the WBC Diamond Championship plus the latest WBC venture:

http://boxedanslemerde.blogspot.com/200 ... terry.html

opticald wrote:Blame Pacquaio this is all his doing, the catchweight bitch

I agree - I hope that Cotto kicks the living dogshite out of him.

Pacman? Call him Catchweight Bitch!


DD

Matt W wrote:Further news about the WBC Diamond Championship plus the latest WBC venture:

http://boxedanslemerde.blogspot.com/200 ... terry.html

“They are, how you say, proper bo. Rizpec.”

DG. wrote:

opticald wrote:Blame Pacquaio this is all his doing, the catchweight bitch

I agree - I hope that Cotto kicks the living dogshite out of him.

Pacman? Call him Catchweight Bitch!


DD

right, so manny has arranged one fight, ever, at catchweight.

which now makes him the 'catchweight bitch' apparently

to hear you lot going on you would think he has had nothing but catchweight fights for years

ummmm lets go back through his last few fights Hatton (LWW) DLH (WW) Diaz (LW) Marquez Barrera Solis Morales (SF)

so where are all these catchweight fights of which you speak?

oh, i get it. he is having A catchweight fight.

nice to see you are as rational with your criticisms of him as you are with hatton.

Counter-puncher wrote:

DG. wrote:

opticald wrote:Blame Pacquaio this is all his doing, the catchweight bitch

I agree - I hope that Cotto kicks the living dogshite out of him.

Pacman? Call him Catchweight Bitch!


DD

right, so manny has arranged one fight, ever, at catchweight.

which now makes him the 'catchweight bitch' apparently

to hear you lot going on you would think he has had nothing but catchweight fights for years

ummmm lets go back through his last few fights Hatton (LWW) DLH (WW) Diaz (LW) Marquez Barrera Solis Morales (SF)

so where are all these catchweight fights of which you speak?

oh, i get it. he is having A catchweight fight.

nice to see you are as rational with your criticisms of him as you are with hatton.

Well said.

Its not even a catchweight fight in the traditional sense of the word. Someone 139.10 lbs fighting someone 140.01 lbs is a catchweight fight.

stujones wrote:However, if a fight is contracted to be between 140-147 lbs and a fighter comes in at 141 cause its a tactical thing, and the other comes in at 147 - then I cannot see why your so against that being for a title.

If a fight is contracted between 140-147lbs (like 143lbs or 145lbs) then it can't be for a world title in my eyes. Let's be realistic here, Cotto's never going to turn down the Pacquiao fight - he gets the chance to fight the best fighter in the world, pick up his biggest ever wage and here's the killer, he has a massive chance to win. Nobody would turn down a chance like that, just ask Juan Manuel Marquez - do you think he really fancies jumping two whole weight divisions to fight Mayweather jr? Of course he would prefer the fight at light welterweight, but the big boys are calling the shots, like Pacquiao is doing with Cotto.

IMO, if Pacquiao wants to wrestle that title away from Cotto, then he needs to allow Cotto the full weight division - if he proceeds to come in at 145lbs regardless, then that's his business. To me, this is more of a catchweight fight, than a welterweight fight. Again, of course, it's technically a welterweight fight, but if Pacquiao wants Cotto at a disadvantage then he has to forfeit fighting for the world title. Literally, Pacquiao and Arum aren't holding a gun to his napper, but he's holding him to ransom. Fight on my terms or do one and fight Mosley, Berto and so on. I would love nothing more than Pacquiao to win a welterweight belt, but surely if he wants to win one off Cotto then he has to allow Cotto the maximum weigh-in allowance of the full 7lbs.

And I was under the impression that heavyweights can come in as low as they like if the state commission in charge allows it beforehand. If anyone could confirm or refute that with something on the internet, and put me in the know then I will be grateful.

Okay, Dioufy I think we've reached a bit of a standstill. I still don't get what you mean. Cotto vs Pacquiao is a contracted thing - so I can understand why you are against this being for the title. Pacquiao is preventing Cotto making full use of the weight and it is contracted as such.

However, my mythical Hatton vs Collazo scenario (which also has happened in reality in the past) was a tactical move by Hatton and ONLY known by team Hatton to come in light -not part of any contract... if he wanted to fight at 147 - team Collazo would have allowed that also.

I think being against that... is being against any fighter who isn't BANG on the weight. Cotto didn't make full use of the 147lbs in his last fight, should that have been for the title? He could have, but so could Hatton in my mythical example. Winky Wright came in light to challenge McKart way back when - should that have been for the title?