Autobarn wrote:Come on you lot, don't be nasty. It was the super heavyweight punches, among other factors, that undid him. I don't see any super heavyweights down at cruiser.
Vitali KO'd him with a miss, so that blows your theory right out of the water.
Hide wont be winning a genuine world title at any weight, he's done!
it wasn't a miss. the jab knocked him out, the right hand missed. then geniuses across the world say he was KO'd by a miss. slow motion replay, anyone?
"Geniuses across the world"
If you want to argue it was a KO blow thats your prerogative, but that 'jab' (which Vitali only pawed with anyway) was as close as you can get to a miss without actually missing.
Herbie took a dive, its as simple as that. You'd be a fool to argue otherwise. I mean with the slow motion replay's that we have these days, c'mon! D
I think Herbie was already intimidated, anxious and hurt. it did appear he got KO'd by a non punch but it seems a grazing punch from a "super heavy" will put him down or even out. i think it was the left jab that finished him, a pawing punch as you say but from a much bigger man. did he simply go down before the right could land? or was he flattened by a big man's jab? methinks the latter.
WBC champ Fragomeni - decent fighter, tough - certainly won't have that impact as he's really a fat light heavy. Herbie is ranked in WBC. He can do it!
Autobarn wrote:did he simply go down before the right could land? or was he flattened by a big man's jab? methinks the latter.
C'mon man, your the one who brought slow mo replay's into this, there's nothing to debate here, its on TAPE for fcuks sake.
Herbie is a big mouth bottle job. I never rated him then, and i see nothing about him today that tells me he can win a genuine title at any weight. And is things currently stand, he does not desrve a shot at any of the titles, i cannot see how he's earned it?
i still think it was a long jab that went smack in the face that put him away. ppl emphasise the right that missed, but they ignore the jab that landed
we already saw glancing shots from bowe - a heavy man's shots that barely landed - drop herbie about 6 times
i think a good sized cruiserweight with a good left hook counter could smash herbie. when he goes bananas with the right hand, throwing himself off balance, if a cool customer could nail him coming in with a good right-left, i think he'd be out of there. (seen adamek do this a number of times in that thrilling win over cunningham & the brutal stoppage of banks.)
herbie is fighting this endless carnival of losers for a reason. all fragomeni has to do is be tough and move forward throwing his light shots and he'll catch herbie and knock him out. when has hide ever battled through adversity to win? when has herbie beaten any sort of ranked fighter? michael bentt was surely his biggest win????
lets not knock herbie to much, some british fighters have not achieved half of what hide has (colin dunne, michael brodie, jamie moore, arnie farnell, michael gomez, neil sinclair, michael watson etc etc etc) and still we hold them in high esteem and rightly so.
herbie has fallen victim of his own gob, he is disliked by many but in reality, lets praise him for what he achieved, a small man in a big mans world and he won the wbo heavyweight title.
he deserves another shot if nothing else, he still keeps on beating whoever is put in front of him and he will have a punchers chance against anyone. hide v maccarinelli would have been a decent scrap !!
as a fellow old pupil of glebe house school in hunstanton in norfolk, i have to support the herbster.
Rhino - you make a point, but if we are honest. He was the most protected British fighter ever. He only even won the vacant British title, against a fighter who probably wasn't in the top ten at the time of the fight.
His other best wins were against Michael bent and tony Tucker - hardly "up there".
The reason the likes of Watson, Gomez, Brodie, Dunne are held in higher esteem - is because they've beaten better fighter than Hide beat... even though Hide is a two time world champion on paper.
stujones wrote:Rhino - you make a point, but if we are honest. He was the most protected British fighter ever. He only even won the vacant British title, against a fighter who probably wasn't in the top ten at the time of the fight.
His other best wins were against Michael bent and tony Tucker - hardly "up there".
The reason the likes of Watson, Gomez, Brodie, Dunne are held in higher esteem - is because they've beaten better fighter than Hide beat... even though Hide is a two time world champion on paper.
yes i agree mate, but herbie certainly made the most of what he had. on paper and on his bank statement, he had a good career.
Herbie seems more well preserved and fresher than Fragomeni.
A guy who won a WBO heavyweight title - a bauble, true, but still an international belt - can win a fragment of the world cruiserweight title, especially one held by a blown up light heavyweight who won his title on a clash of heads, and who retained his title on a controversial, if thrilling, draw, in a fight that saw him down twice.
He can beat Fragomeni FFS. The question is, when will the fight be delivered? Will he get his shot or will things drag out so badly that Fragomeni loses...
stujones wrote:Rhino - you make a point, but if we are honest. He was the most protected British fighter ever. He only even won the vacant British title, against a fighter who probably wasn't in the top ten at the time of the fight.
His other best wins were against Michael bent and tony Tucker - hardly "up there".
The reason the likes of Watson, Gomez, Brodie, Dunne are held in higher esteem - is because they've beaten better fighter than Hide beat... even though Hide is a two time world champion on paper.
tucker was a genuine world champ who stopped douglas.he also went the distance with a peak tyson.who have any of the above fighters beat better than that?you could make a case for watson but thats about it.
stujones wrote:Rhino - you make a point, but if we are honest. He was the most protected British fighter ever. He only even won the vacant British title, against a fighter who probably wasn't in the top ten at the time of the fight.
His other best wins were against Michael bent and tony Tucker - hardly "up there".
The reason the likes of Watson, Gomez, Brodie, Dunne are held in higher esteem - is because they've beaten better fighter than Hide beat... even though Hide is a two time world champion on paper.
tucker was a genuine world champ who stopped douglas.he also went the distance with a peak tyson.who have any of the above fighters beat better than that?you could make a case for watson but thats about it.
he may have been shot.but name me one better opponent the others have beat?
D
tucker was shot to shit when herbie got to him! Good God!