BoxRec

Steve89 wrote:

Asterix wrote:Compare:

UK: http://www.boxrec.com/ratings.php?count ... &SUBMIT=Go
Ireland: http://www.boxrec.com/ratings.php?count ... &SUBMIT=Go

Meaning what?

You can see a list of the best fighters and then decide who has the best fights. You've obviously got an emotional interest in the subject of this topic, from looking at your responses. I think you have an agenda.

Asterix wrote:

Steve89 wrote:

Asterix wrote:Compare:

UK: http://www.boxrec.com/ratings.php?count ... &SUBMIT=Go
Ireland: http://www.boxrec.com/ratings.php?count ... &SUBMIT=Go

Meaning what?

You can see a list of the best fighters and then decide who has the best fights. You've obviously got an emotional interest in the subject of this topic, from looking at your responses. I think you have an agenda.

a few Irish fighters on that UK list though aint there.

I guess if we really wanted to be pedantic we could claim that all Mexican legends are Spanish because that's where they came from.

Ho ho ho, so much fun, i'm going to trace everyones roots

Honeyghan is Jamaican, Hope is Mau..m....whatsitcalled, Hopkins is African, Khan is Pakistani, Tszyu is Russian etc.

On a more serious note I find the Irish scene more exciting at the moment.

sligobhoy67 wrote:a few Irish fighters on that UK list though aint there.

It depends which way you want to look at it. I'll just call them all local fighters and enjoy the good fights. Putting people into pigeon holes is never a good idea.

banjo wrote:I guess if we really wanted to be pedantic we could claim that all Mexican legends are Spanish because that's where they came from.

Ho ho ho, so much fun, i'm going to trace everyones roots

Honeyghan is Jamaican, Hope is Mau..m....whatsitcalled, Hopkins is African, Khan is Pakistani, Tszyu is Russian etc.

Mexicans are Spanish - good one - you need to buy a few books son!

Tszyu was born and bred in the USSR!!

Asterix wrote:

sligobhoy67 wrote:a few Irish fighters on that UK list though aint there.

It depends which way you want to look at it. I'll just call them all local fighters and enjoy the good fights. Putting people into pigeon holes is never a good idea.

I'm not putting anyone in pigeon whole to be honest - in fact - you probably are if anyone if. I am just saying that nationality isnt a straightforward subject.

Anyway this is boring and I wont be posting on this thread again.

God Save the Queen!

sligobhoy67 wrote:

Asterix wrote:

sligobhoy67 wrote:a few Irish fighters on that UK list though aint there.

It depends which way you want to look at it. I'll just call them all local fighters and enjoy the good fights. Putting people into pigeon holes is never a good idea.

I'm not putting anyone in pigeon whole to be honest - in fact - you probably are if anyone if. I am just saying that nationality isnt a straightforward subject.

Anyway this is boring and I wont be posting on this thread again.

God Save the Queen!

I wasn't saying you were, simply that it isn't a good idea. I had no idea I was putting people into pigeon holes by refusing to state which nationality they are. Interesting idea.

Asterix wrote:

sligobhoy67 wrote:

Asterix wrote: It depends which way you want to look at it. I'll just call them all local fighters and enjoy the good fights. Putting people into pigeon holes is never a good idea.

I'm not putting anyone in pigeon whole to be honest - in fact - you probably are if anyone if. I am just saying that nationality isnt a straightforward subject.

Anyway this is boring and I wont be posting on this thread again.

God Save the Queen!

I wasn't saying you were, simply that it isn't a good idea. I had no idea I was putting people into pigeon holes by refusing to state which nationality they are. Interesting idea.

sorry, I mixed your post up with yiddo's.

sligobhoy67 wrote:sorry, I mixed your post up with yiddo's.

No problem.

Asterix wrote:

Steve89 wrote:

Asterix wrote:Compare:

UK: http://www.boxrec.com/ratings.php?count ... &SUBMIT=Go
Ireland: http://www.boxrec.com/ratings.php?count ... &SUBMIT=Go

Meaning what?

You can see a list of the best fighters and then decide who has the best fights. You've obviously got an emotional interest in the subject of this topic, from looking at your responses. I think you have an agenda.

Did I say who has the best fighters?I said the most exciting fights/fighters at the moment.Are you that insecure about your nationality that you won't accept that I think Irish boxing a more appealing than British boxing without saiyng I have an agenda?I have no agenda mate,I have a mixture of Polish,English & Irish blood but I don't have a concrete loyalty to anyone nationality.I support British fighters mostly because I grew up watching them more but the more I see of the Irish boxing,the more I am becoming a fan.Why do you have the attitude that if you praise one country that means you are insulting another one?What's emotional about my responses?I think your getting emotional and annoyed because you are threatened by another country overtaking Britain in popularity and success I fornicating hate that British attitude that makes everyone think we are a bunch of tossers,pissing ourselves because another country has more champions

Steve89 wrote:Did I say who has the best fighters?I said the most exciting fights/fighters at the moment.Are you that insecure about your nationality that you won't accept that I think Irish boxing a more appealing than British boxing without saiyng I have an agenda?I have no agenda mate,I have a mixture of Polish,English & Irish blood but I don't have a concrete loyalty to anyone nationality.I support British fighters mostly because I grew up watching them more but the more I see of the Irish boxing,the more I am becoming a fan.Why do you have the attitude that if you praise one country that means you are insulting another one?What's emotional about my responses?I think your getting emotional and annoyed because you are threatened by another country overtaking Britain in popularity and success I effing hate that British attitude that makes everyone think we are a bunch of tossers,pissing ourselves because another country has more champions

I provided a link to the best fighters because the best fights, imo, are with the better fighters.

Asterix wrote:

Steve89 wrote:Did I say who has the best fighters?I said the most exciting fights/fighters at the moment.Are you that insecure about your nationality that you won't accept that I think Irish boxing a more appealing than British boxing without saiyng I have an agenda?I have no agenda mate,I have a mixture of Polish,English & Irish blood but I don't have a concrete loyalty to anyone nationality.I support British fighters mostly because I grew up watching them more but the more I see of the Irish boxing,the more I am becoming a fan.Why do you have the attitude that if you praise one country that means you are insulting another one?What's emotional about my responses?I think your getting emotional and annoyed because you are threatened by another country overtaking Britain in popularity and success I effing hate that British attitude that makes everyone think we are a bunch of tossers,pissing ourselves because another country has more champions

I provided a link to the best fighters because the best fights, imo, are with the better fighters.

So you are assuming UK boxers are better than Irish boxers? I think McCloskey, Lindsay, Rogan, and Magee would beg to differ with you on that one Asterix. Sure you have more big names but that's to be expected with the UK's popuation being 10 times that of Irelands.

yiddo14 wrote:I would love to see the list of "Irish" "World Champions" that totals 17.

Me thinks some were born and bred in the USA(thus making your point about population irrelevant. If we take into account the amount of people around the world that call themselves Irish, then Ireland has a bigger population than Britian and probably half of Europe combined!)
And some have got to be mere strap holders to get the number that high.

When it comes to genuine World Champions that are genuinely from the countries in question then Ireland are way behind England, Wales and Scotland, especially in terms of quality.
Check out each countries respective pound for pound all time list, Ireland have not produced fighters in the same class as Wilde, Driscoll, Lynch, Buchanan, Kid Lewis, Calzaghe, Lewis, Hamed, etc. Not even close.

They have always been behind their cousins from across the Irish Sea, although I must say their amateur programme is starting to produce some quality fighters. Whatever they have done there is starting to work.

I couldn't find a definitive list of Irish world champions, Boxrec's listing are too unreliable, but here is a list of 14 Irish world champions who were born in Ireland (not USA as you make out) :

Johnny Caldwell - Belfast, N. Ireland
Steve Collins - Dublin, Ireland
Bernard Dunne - Dublin, Ireland
George Gardner - Co Clare on St Patricks Day which makes him Irish x 3!
Eamonn Loughran - Ballymena, N. Ireland
Jack McAuliffe - Cork, Ireland
Barry McGuigan - Clones, Ireland
Mike McTigue - Co Clare, Ireland
Rinty Monaghan - Belfast, N. Ireland
Dave Boy McCauley - Larne, N. Ireland
Wayne McCullough - Belfast, N. Ireland
Tom McCormack - Louth, Ireland
Jimmy McClarnin - Co Down, N. Ireland
Jack Dempsey - Co Kildare, Ireland

There are about 20 Irish American world champions listed as US world champions on Boxrec. Some of these are technically Irish and not Irish-American which would account for the 17 Irish champions someone mentioned earlier in the thread but with Boxrec's inacurracy with regards to Nationality, (for example: Boxrec has 8 boxers listed as Australian champions who are not from Australia, 10 boxers listed as French champions who are not from France, and 5 boxers listed as English champions who are not English!), it is hard to pinpoint which of the boxers listed are US born or Irish born).

As sligobhoy said, it is strange that you chose Hamed (Yemeni heritage), Lewis (Jamaican heritage), Calzaghe (Italian heritage), Kid Lewis (real name Gershon Mendeloff - dosen't sound very British to me), Benny Lynch (had Irish parents), and Jim Driscoll (had Irish parents), as your examples of British fighters who are, as you put it, in a different class to Irish boxers.

Whilst sticking to the pedantics that you apply to choosing which of the Irish world champions you recognise as being truly Irish, you can take Lloyd Honeyghan (born in Jamaica), Herbie Hide (born in Nigeria - real name Herbert Okechukwu Maduagwu), Charlie Magri (born in Tunisia) and Tom McCormack (born in Ireland), off your list of British world champions.

knowitall wrote:So you are assuming UK boxers are better than Irish boxers? I think McCloskey, Lindsay, Rogan, and Magee would beg to differ with you on that one Asterix. Sure you have more big names but that's to be expected with the UK's popuation being 10 times that of Irelands.

No, you are assuming what I think. I haven't commented on that as I don't want to be dragged into the debate. I provided the links so that people could have a look.

For what it's worth, my favourite fight of the year so far is Bernard Dunne vs Ricardo Cordoba.

Asterix wrote:

knowitall wrote:So you are assuming UK boxers are better than Irish boxers? I think McCloskey, Lindsay, Rogan, and Magee would beg to differ with you on that one Asterix. Sure you have more big names but that's to be expected with the UK's popuation being 10 times that of Irelands.

No, you are assuming what I think. I haven't commented on that as I don't want to be dragged into the debate. I provided the links so that people could have a look.

For what it's worth, my favourite fight of the year so far is Bernard Dunne vs Ricardo Cordoba.

OK, I must have misunderstood your post then. For what it's worth I think Ireland and the UK are pretty even when you take everything into consideration.

knowitall wrote:

yiddo14 wrote:I would love to see the list of "Irish" "World Champions" that totals 17.

Me thinks some were born and bred in the USA(thus making your point about population irrelevant. If we take into account the amount of people around the world that call themselves Irish, then Ireland has a bigger population than Britian and probably half of Europe combined!)
And some have got to be mere strap holders to get the number that high.

When it comes to genuine World Champions that are genuinely from the countries in question then Ireland are way behind England, Wales and Scotland, especially in terms of quality.
Check out each countries respective pound for pound all time list, Ireland have not produced fighters in the same class as Wilde, Driscoll, Lynch, Buchanan, Kid Lewis, Calzaghe, Lewis, Hamed, etc. Not even close.

They have always been behind their cousins from across the Irish Sea, although I must say their amateur programme is starting to produce some quality fighters. Whatever they have done there is starting to work.

I couldn't find a definitive list of Irish world champions, Boxrec's listing are too unreliable, but here is a list of 14 Irish world champions who were born in Ireland (not USA as you make out) :

Johnny Caldwell - Belfast, N. Ireland
Steve Collins - Dublin, Ireland
Bernard Dunne - Dublin, Ireland
George Gardner - Co Clare on St Patricks Day which makes him Irish x 3!
Eamonn Loughran - Ballymena, N. Ireland
Jack McAuliffe - Cork, Ireland
Barry McGuigan - Clones, Ireland
Mike McTigue - Co Clare, Ireland
Rinty Monaghan - Belfast, N. Ireland
Dave Boy McCauley - Larne, N. Ireland
Wayne McCullough - Belfast, N. Ireland
Tom McCormack - Louth, Ireland
Jimmy McClarnin - Co Down, N. Ireland
Jack Dempsey - Co Kildare, Ireland

15: Dave Sullivan- Cork, Ireland(World Featherweight champion)
16:Tom Sharkey- Dunadlk, Ireland(World Heavyweight champion)
17:Peter Maher- Galway, Ireland(World Heavyweight champion)

That's 17.........all born in Ireland, I assume Yiddo is loving this list as he claimed he would.

Now Ireland certainly haven't produced as many great fighters as Britain, then again Ireland has never had the population or the influx of immigrants(who as pointed out greatly contributed towards producing most of Britain's best fighters), however to say Ireland hasn't had fighters in the same class as some of those men is simply untrue. Jimmy McLarnin has defeated more hall of fame fighters than any other fighter.......ever, he is as great as any man on your list.

BigEars wrote:

knowitall wrote:

yiddo14 wrote:I would love to see the list of "Irish" "World Champions" that totals 17.

Me thinks some were born and bred in the USA(thus making your point about population irrelevant. If we take into account the amount of people around the world that call themselves Irish, then Ireland has a bigger population than Britian and probably half of Europe combined!)
And some have got to be mere strap holders to get the number that high.

When it comes to genuine World Champions that are genuinely from the countries in question then Ireland are way behind England, Wales and Scotland, especially in terms of quality.
Check out each countries respective pound for pound all time list, Ireland have not produced fighters in the same class as Wilde, Driscoll, Lynch, Buchanan, Kid Lewis, Calzaghe, Lewis, Hamed, etc. Not even close.

They have always been behind their cousins from across the Irish Sea, although I must say their amateur programme is starting to produce some quality fighters. Whatever they have done there is starting to work.

I couldn't find a definitive list of Irish world champions, Boxrec's listing are too unreliable, but here is a list of 14 Irish world champions who were born in Ireland (not USA as you make out) :

Johnny Caldwell - Belfast, N. Ireland
Steve Collins - Dublin, Ireland
Bernard Dunne - Dublin, Ireland
George Gardner - Co Clare on St Patricks Day which makes him Irish x 3!
Eamonn Loughran - Ballymena, N. Ireland
Jack McAuliffe - Cork, Ireland
Barry McGuigan - Clones, Ireland
Mike McTigue - Co Clare, Ireland
Rinty Monaghan - Belfast, N. Ireland
Dave Boy McCauley - Larne, N. Ireland
Wayne McCullough - Belfast, N. Ireland
Tom McCormack - Louth, Ireland
Jimmy McClarnin - Co Down, N. Ireland
Jack Dempsey - Co Kildare, Ireland

15: Dave Sullivan- Cork, Ireland(World Featherweight champion)
16:Tom Sharkey- Dunadlk, Ireland(World Heavyweight champion)
17:Peter Maher- Galway, Ireland(World Heavyweight champion)

That's 17.........all born in Ireland, I assume Yiddo is loving this list as he claimed he would.

Now Ireland certainly haven't produced as many great fighters as Britain, then again Ireland has never had the population or the influx of immigrants(who as pointed out greatly contributed towards producing most of Britain's best fighters), however to say Ireland hasn't had fighters in the same class as some of those men is simply untrue. Jimmy McLarnin has defeated more hall of fame fighters than any other fighter.......ever, he is as great as any man on your list.

Cheers Bigears Do you know why are those 3 not listed under Irish Champions on Boxrec?

knowitall wrote:

BigEars wrote:

knowitall wrote:would love to see the list of "Irish" "World Champions" that totals 17.

Me thinks some were born and bred in the USA(thus making your point about population irrelevant. If we take into account the amount of people around the world that call themselves Irish, then Ireland has a bigger population than Britian and probably half of Europe combined!)
And some have got to be mere strap holders to get the number that high.

When it comes to genuine World Champions that are genuinely from the countries in question then Ireland are way behind England, Wales and Scotland, especially in terms of quality.
Check out each countries respective pound for pound all time list, Ireland have not produced fighters in the same class as Wilde, Driscoll, Lynch, Buchanan, Kid Lewis, Calzaghe, Lewis, Hamed, etc. Not even close.

They have always been behind their cousins from across the Irish Sea, although I must say their amateur programme is starting to produce some quality fighters. Whatever they have done there is starting to work.

I couldn't find a definitive list of Irish world champions, Boxrec's listing are too unreliable, but here is a list of 14 Irish world champions who were born in Ireland (not USA as you make out) :

Johnny Caldwell - Belfast, N. Ireland
Steve Collins - Dublin, Ireland
Bernard Dunne - Dublin, Ireland
George Gardner - Co Clare on St Patricks Day which makes him Irish x 3!
Eamonn Loughran - Ballymena, N. Ireland
Jack McAuliffe - Cork, Ireland
Barry McGuigan - Clones, Ireland
Mike McTigue - Co Clare, Ireland
Rinty Monaghan - Belfast, N. Ireland
Dave Boy McCauley - Larne, N. Ireland
Wayne McCullough - Belfast, N. Ireland
Tom McCormack - Louth, Ireland
Jimmy McClarnin - Co Down, N. Ireland
Jack Dempsey - Co Kildare, Ireland

15: Dave Sullivan- Cork, Ireland(World Featherweight champion)
16:Tom Sharkey- Dunadlk, Ireland(World Heavyweight champion)
17:Peter Maher- Galway, Ireland(World Heavyweight champion)

That's 17.........all born in Ireland, I assume Yiddo is loving this list as he claimed he would.

Now Ireland certainly haven't produced as many great fighters as Britain, then again Ireland has never had the population or the influx of immigrants(who as pointed out greatly contributed towards producing most of Britain's best fighters), however to say Ireland hasn't had fighters in the same class as some of those men is simply untrue. Jimmy McLarnin has defeated more hall of fame fighters than any other fighter.......ever, he is as great as any man on your list.

Cheers Bigears Do you know why are those 3 not listed under Irish Champions on Boxrec?[/quote]

maybe because they were based in the US for the majority of their careers - not sure tbh.