BoxRec

Datsue wrote:Jayzus Christ.

No, he is not the best ever.

/thread

Oh, by the by, Hearns would pitch a virtual shutout at welter or light-middle, thank you; Floyd would never get past the stick, & Leonard would actually kill him, I think. Starling would time him, Breland would beat him. Duran, at either lightweight or welter, would be too much for him. Curry would beat him, Whitaker (at either light or welter) would beat him, Chavez would break him at lightweight, Arguello he might have a chance with but Pryor would do him & on, & on...

Agreed.

Quixall wrote:Great performance, but he has yet to fight

1. Pacquiao

2. Williams

3. Cotto

4. Mosley

At the moment, he is the best around and is a great fighter, who will go down in the annals of boxing history, but for me, to cement his position, he has to fight the opponents mentioned above. One fighter who he will struggle to eclipse is :

Sugar Ray Robinson

For me, the finest fighter to ever lace up a pair of gloves

I dont actually believe Mayweather is the greatest ever and I agree both Sugar Rays are above him. I expected people to come up with names they thought were better, but to put PBF in the top 100 as Flustuff did, is qute rediculous. He is an elite fighter with tremendous all round skills, a perfect 40 fight record, and has to feature in most peoples top 20 list of all time greats. Its just a matter of where you place him.

Datsue wrote:Jayzus Christ. No, he is not the best ever. /thread Oh, by the by, Hearns would pitch a virtual shutout at welter or light-middle, thank you; Floyd would never get past the stick, & Leonard would actually kill him, I think. Starling would time him, Breland would beat him. Duran, at either lightweight or welter, would be too much for him. Curry would beat him, Whitaker (at either light or welter) would beat him, Chavez would break him at lightweight, Arguello he might have a chance with but Pryor would do him & on, & on...

Utter tripe.

the patriot wrote:The trouble is most people look back with rose-tinted specs on -everything in the past is better than the present. Whether it be boxers, footballers, tv programmes or sweets you used to get in the sweet shop...

Its not untill its gone that you truly appreciate things.

Thats very true. We are always looking back comparing fighters of today with fighters of the past, saying so and so in his day would have slaughtered him. I remember when Ali was in his heyday, ITV did a who beats who. Louis, Marciano or Ali? Its all a matter of opinion, they were all great during their time. Opinions can be daft, until recently many believed Tyson Fury was the best in Britain, and at the moment at least that isnt the case. Maybe Mayweather isnt the geatest ever, I didnt say he was, but his name has to be considered for one of the best. At least the thread gives you something to say on a boring Sunday afternoon.

Brave post Wild Waylon - particularly, as one poster has pointed out already, everybody gets a hard on for things that happened 20 years ago. They like to feel as if they are members of the cognoscenti.

Anybody who thinks any fighter from any era could destroy Mayweather, through anything other than sheer size advantage, is delusional. There have been some ridiculous posts on this thread.

He is great to take 2 years out and come back and destroy JMM was amazing he fought brillaintly he was so fast and as always his defence was great to watch. His left hook was on song and JMM just couldnt deal with the speed no matter what he did he got caught I had it 120-107 to PBF it was a great return

WildWaylon wrote: Who would have thought PBF could have dominated Marquez the way he did. We know he had the size and weight advantage but even so his speed and skills made him the master anyway. Is he the best at any weight, in boxings history, and if not who would you put above him.

Silly post.

Have you seen all the great fighters who have fought throughout the years of boxings long history.

All these teenagers who are into the sport these days are all so conviced that Mayweather is the best ever just because he is the best they have seen.

He's not the best ever.

And I dont rate him as the best in the last 25 years or so as alot of people do.

He is up there as one of the best of the last 25 or so years but so are alot of other good fighters.

Shane Mosley woukld have beaten him at Lightweight in my opinon - Mosely was a awesome Lightweight maybe the best ever -knocking out everyone in his path.

Pernell Whitaker in his prime - was also a defensive genius and he fought the likes of Julio Cesar Chavez who was alot better than Julio Luis Castillio who Mayweather scraped by.

Roy Jones Jnr - was alot more dynanmic and offensive than Mayweahter - and was a better more flaired fighter than Mayweather.

Ricardo Lopez was a genius of a boxer at the lighter weights.

And the 2000 version of Shane Mosley who beat a more better version of De La Hoya beat than Mayweather beat and Mosely beat De La Hoya in a better manner than Mayweather did.

That 2000 Welterweight version of Mosley was as good as Mayweather in my opinon and would have had a great chance of beating this welterweight version of Mayweather.

Shane even the 2009 version I gave a good chance to give Mayweather a real competivie fight and could push Mayweather close as he is bigger and physically stronger - very fast himself and punches harder than Mayweather - no wonder Mayweather's body launguage says he dont want the fight.

the thread starte even goes as far to say that Mayweather is the best ever - that means you reckon he was better than Sugar Ray Robinson and Sugar Ray Leonard andeven Roy Jones Jnr ?????

No way

Mayweather looked great last night - because he is a master of his craft - but he held all the aces - Marquez was outgunned in every department this was clear to see before the first bell.

You cant started calling a fighter the greatest ever because he outgunned a smaller man who was at every disadvantage.

To answer the question in the title of the thread - I will always have Ali as my number 1 - but PBF is rapidly catching up!!!

FLINT ISLAND wrote:

WildWaylon wrote: Who would have thought PBF could have dominated Marquez the way he did. We know he had the size and weight advantage but even so his speed and skills made him the master anyway. Is he the best at any weight, in boxings history, and if not who would you put above him.

Silly post.

Have you seen all the great fighters who have fought throughout the years of boxings long history.

All these teenagers who are into the sport these days are all so conviced that Mayweather is the best ever just because he is the best they have seen.

He's not the best ever.

And I dont rate him as the best in the last 25 years or so as alot of people do.

He is up there as one of the best of the last 25 or so years but so are alot of other good fighters.

Shane Mosley woukld have beaten him at Lightweight in my opinon - Mosely was a awesome Lightweight maybe the best ever -knocking out everyone in his path.

Pernell Whitaker in his prime - was also a defensive genius and he fought the likes of Julio Cesar Chavez who was alot better than Julio Luis Castillio who Mayweather scraped by.

Roy Jones Jnr - was alot more dynanmic and offensive than Mayweahter - and was a better more flaired fighter than Mayweather.

Ricardo Lopez was a genius of a boxer at the lighter weights.

And the 2000 version of Shane Mosley who beat a more better version of De La Hoya beat than Mayweather beat and Mosely beat De La Hoya in a better manner than Mayweather did.

That 2000 Welterweight version of Mosley was as good as Mayweather in my opinon and would have had a great chance of beating this welterweight version of Mayweather.

Shane even the 2009 version I gave a good chance to give Mayweather a real competivie fight and could push Mayweather close as he is bigger and physically stronger - very fast himself and punches harder than Mayweather - no wonder Mayweather's body launguage says he dont want the fight.

the thread starte even goes as far to say that Mayweather is the best ever - that means you reckon he was better than Sugar Ray Robinson and Sugar Ray Leonard andeven Roy Jones Jnr ?????

No way

Mayweather looked great last night - because he is a master of his craft - but he held all the aces - Marquez was outgunned in every department this was clear to see before the first bell.

You cant started calling a fighter the greatest ever because he outgunned a smaller man who was at every disadvantage.

You havent read my posts properly. I am not actually saying Mayweather is the best ever. I have acknowledged, Robinson and Leonard and Ali too. I am no teenager. Did you see Clay/ Liston, I did. Maybe I am not the most knowlegable poster on this forum but I have seen many thousands of fights through the years, and I happen to believe Mayweather would have given anybody in his weight class trouble in any era. History doesnt always tell the story the way it was.

WildWaylon wrote:

exittored wrote:Come back and ask that after Mayweather has beaten PACMAN, MOSLEY and PAUL WILLIAMS but untill than BE QUIET!!!

I think he beats all three, but Cotto is another matter. PS no need for rudeness.

I wasn't trying to be rude, just more shocked than anything else.

Sure it was a masterclass performance and against a very good Elite Boxer but that Boxer was a Lightweight Champion who was 36 and had reached the highest weight class he was going to be competitive at. The last chance this fight had of being competitive went on friday when Mayweather went 2lbs over the agreed weight of 144 lbs and making of a mockery of the agreement beforehand, its a shame Marquez didn't say Fuk that i aint fighting till you lose those 2 lbs like we agreed but he is too much of a warrior for that!

The simple fact is that MAYWEATHER could have come back and fought SHANE MOSLEY, PAUL WILLIAMS, MIGUEL COTTO and MANNY PACQUIO who were all free for his comeback fight yet waited till Pacquio had set his fight up with Cotto taking out 2 of his possible opponents out of the picture, he simply ignores the current No 1 Welter in Shane Mosley who was calling him out time after time and he won't even DARE mention Paul Williams name in any conversation!

So sure this thread would have been acceptable if he'd done the same Masterclass on someone his own size but get's no credit for beating Marquez unless he'd had the fight at 140 lbs at least!

Floyd has fought plenty bigger than himself, so he gets a pass on that for last night, besides I thought Marquez actually looked the bigger puncher, and I think he surprised PBF the few times he did land.

I've never warmed to Floyd, and was thinking before last night that it's a shame no one like Duran was around, to kick his arse...but after watching him again, you have to hand it to him, he's just about the complete fighter, born to do things with his eyes closed, that other fighters can only dream about. No doubts bout his chin, he's taken the best off murderous punchers like Corrales and Zudah, even the bigger DLH, and never been close to hurt. Not that he needs it, with a defence like Pernell Whitaker.
You can harp on that he's yet to beat....who? Manny, Cotto....he'll beat both of them easily, he's THAT good, just about untouchable.

Best I've ever seen of the last 40 years was Sugar Ray Leonard, and I'd rate Floyd right up near him, and he deserves to be talked about with the all time greats.

exittored wrote:

WildWaylon wrote:

exittored wrote:Come back and ask that after Mayweather has beaten PACMAN, MOSLEY and PAUL WILLIAMS but untill than BE QUIET!!!

I think he beats all three, but Cotto is another matter. PS no need for rudeness.

I wasn't trying to be rude, just more shocked than anything else.

Sure it was a masterclass performance and against a very good Elite Boxer but that Boxer was a Lightweight Champion who was 36 and had reached the highest weight class he was going to be competitive at. The last chance this fight had of being competitive went on friday when Mayweather went 2lbs over the agreed weight of 144 lbs and making of a mockery of the agreement beforehand, its a shame Marquez didn't say Fuk that i aint fighting till you lose those 2 lbs like we agreed but he is too much of a warrior for that!

The simple fact is that MAYWEATHER could have come back and fought SHANE MOSLEY, PAUL WILLIAMS, MIGUEL COTTO and MANNY PACQUIO who were all free for his comeback fight yet waited till Pacquio had set his fight up with Cotto taking out 2 of his possible opponents out of the picture, he simply ignores the current No 1 Welter in Shane Mosley who was calling him out time after time and he won't even DARE mention Paul Williams name in any conversation!

So sure this thread would have been acceptable if he'd done the same Masterclass on someone his own size but get's no credit for beating Marquez unless he'd had the fight at 140 lbs at least!

The general opinion two years ago on this forum when PBF beat Hatton was that he walked on water and could be the best ever at the weight. I was really reflecting on that, not saying I personally thought he could be the best ever. He will certainly have to beat Mosley and Cotto for most people to put him in the top 5. Manny is small so beating him would raise the same arguements as Marquez. A win over Williams would give him loads of respect, but IMO beating Cotto is the most important for his legacy.

FLINT ISLAND wrote:

WildWaylon wrote: Who would have thought PBF could have dominated Marquez the way he did. We know he had the size and weight advantage but even so his speed and skills made him the master anyway. Is he the best at any weight, in boxings history, and if not who would you put above him.

Silly post.

Have you seen all the great fighters who have fought throughout the years of boxings long history.

All these teenagers who are into the sport these days are all so conviced that Mayweather is the best ever just because he is the best they have seen.

He's not the best ever.

And I dont rate him as the best in the last 25 years or so as alot of people do.

He is up there as one of the best of the last 25 or so years but so are alot of other good fighters.

Shane Mosley woukld have beaten him at Lightweight in my opinon - Mosely was a awesome Lightweight maybe the best ever -knocking out everyone in his path.

Pernell Whitaker in his prime - was also a defensive genius and he fought the likes of Julio Cesar Chavez who was alot better than Julio Luis Castillio who Mayweather scraped by.

Roy Jones Jnr - was alot more dynanmic and offensive than Mayweahter - and was a better more flaired fighter than Mayweather.

Ricardo Lopez was a genius of a boxer at the lighter weights.

And the 2000 version of Shane Mosley who beat a more better version of De La Hoya beat than Mayweather beat and Mosely beat De La Hoya in a better manner than Mayweather did.

That 2000 Welterweight version of Mosley was as good as Mayweather in my opinon and would have had a great chance of beating this welterweight version of Mayweather.

Shane even the 2009 version I gave a good chance to give Mayweather a real competivie fight and could push Mayweather close as he is bigger and physically stronger - very fast himself and punches harder than Mayweather - no wonder Mayweather's body launguage says he dont want the fight.

the thread starte even goes as far to say that Mayweather is the best ever - that means you reckon he was better than Sugar Ray Robinson and Sugar Ray Leonard andeven Roy Jones Jnr ?????

No way

Mayweather looked great last night - because he is a master of his craft - but he held all the aces - Marquez was outgunned in every department this was clear to see before the first bell.

You cant started calling a fighter the greatest ever because he outgunned a smaller man who was at every disadvantage.

some of the stuff u wrote there is utter bollocks

Datsue wrote:Jayzus Christ.

No, he is not the best ever.

/thread

Oh, by the by, Hearns would pitch a virtual shutout at welter or light-middle, thank you; Floyd would never get past the stick, & Leonard would actually kill him, I think. Starling would time him, Breland would beat him. Duran, at either lightweight or welter, would be too much for him. Curry would beat him, Whitaker (at either light or welter) would beat him, Chavez would break him at lightweight, Arguello he might have a chance with but Pryor would do him & on, & on...

Hearns would beat him but 130 is Floyd's best division. Whitaker/Duran/Leonard would beat him too. Breland/Starling certainly wouldnt beat him. Pryor makes too many mistakes to beat him. Chavez/Arguello are too slow to beat him.

MightyWarrior wrote:Floyd has fought plenty bigger than himself, so he gets a pass on that for last night, besides I thought Marquez actually looked the bigger puncher, and I think he surprised PBF the few times he did land.

I've never warmed to Floyd, and was thinking before last night that it's a shame no one like Duran was around, to kick his arse...but after watching him again, you have to hand it to him, he's just about the complete fighter, born to do things with his eyes closed, that other fighters can only dream about. No doubts bout his chin, he's taken the best off murderous punchers like Corrales and Zudah, even the bigger DLH, and never been close to hurt. Not that he needs it, with a defence like Pernell Whitaker.
You can harp on that he's yet to beat....who? Manny, Cotto....he'll beat both of them easily, he's THAT good, just about untouchable.

Best I've ever seen of the last 40 years was Sugar Ray Leonard, and I'd rate Floyd right up near him, and he deserves to be talked about with the all time greats.

Yes, you would have to say Floyd would be competitive with the greats of any era. I think Leonard had a little more than Floyd all round, bigger puncher, more aggressive, and more fluent, Duran was a better fighter in the truest sense of the word.

I'd like to see Floyd fight the real Welterweights out there, Cotto, Mosley et al. I think he has no interest in fighting anyone other than Pacman though, who he will beat hands down. Manny's moving up too far in weight fighting at 147, and I think will lose to Cotto anyway.

All time great, think this thread is kind of a knee-jerk reaction though..

alectrifyingalex wrote:He ducks Williams, ducks Mosley, he ducked Margarito, he ducks a load of people. .

Mosley and Margarito have both turned down fights with the Money man, Mosley in 01 and 06

Yes, but in 01, Floyd was a nonentity outside of boxing circles, no bugger had ever heard of him.

I just dont get some people

How can anyone consider Mayweather as one of the best ever when he has not yet fought the best of his era? Answers on a postcard please...........

He has failed to fight the very best in just about every weight class he has fought in, yet the majority of fans and writers fail to see this. I am dumbfounded by it.

Mayweather is a wonderfull talent. His fights are often boring affairs, but i love to watch him box just for the sheer brilliance he shows in the ring. Though i am convinced he is not good for our sport. Many fans these days are swaying to MMA and all that crap, but i can understand why when boxing is dominated by mismatches, big fights that never materialise etc etc.

We should thank the lord for boxers like Marquez, Pacquio, Mosley, Cotto etc etc. Without their sort this sport would be dead!

ALI wrote:I just dont get some people

How can anyone consider Mayweather as one of the best ever when he has not yet fought the best of his era? Answers on a postcard please...........

He has failed to fight the very best in just about every weight class he has fought in, yet the majority of fans and writers fail to see this. I am dumbfounded by it.

Mayweather is a wonderfull talent. His fights are often boring affairs, but i love to watch him box just for the sheer brilliance he shows in the ring. Though i am convinced he is not good for our sport. Many fans these days are swaying to MMA and all that crap, but i can understand why when boxing is dominated by mismatches, big fights that never materialise etc etc.

We should thank the lord for boxers like Marquez, Pacquio, Mosley, Cotto etc etc. Without their sort this sport would be dead!

Spot on mate

landon wrote:

FLINT ISLAND wrote:

WildWaylon wrote: Who would have thought PBF could have dominated Marquez the way he did. We know he had the size and weight advantage but even so his speed and skills made him the master anyway. Is he the best at any weight, in boxings history, and if not who would you put above him.

Silly post.

Have you seen all the great fighters who have fought throughout the years of boxings long history.

All these teenagers who are into the sport these days are all so conviced that Mayweather is the best ever just because he is the best they have seen.

He's not the best ever.

And I dont rate him as the best in the last 25 years or so as alot of people do.

He is up there as one of the best of the last 25 or so years but so are alot of other good fighters.

Shane Mosley woukld have beaten him at Lightweight in my opinon - Mosely was a awesome Lightweight maybe the best ever -knocking out everyone in his path.

Pernell Whitaker in his prime - was also a defensive genius and he fought the likes of Julio Cesar Chavez who was alot better than Julio Luis Castillio who Mayweather scraped by.

Roy Jones Jnr - was alot more dynanmic and offensive than Mayweahter - and was a better more flaired fighter than Mayweather.

Ricardo Lopez was a genius of a boxer at the lighter weights.

And the 2000 version of Shane Mosley who beat a more better version of De La Hoya beat than Mayweather beat and Mosely beat De La Hoya in a better manner than Mayweather did.

That 2000 Welterweight version of Mosley was as good as Mayweather in my opinon and would have had a great chance of beating this welterweight version of Mayweather.

Shane even the 2009 version I gave a good chance to give Mayweather a real competivie fight and could push Mayweather close as he is bigger and physically stronger - very fast himself and punches harder than Mayweather - no wonder Mayweather's body launguage says he dont want the fight.

the thread starte even goes as far to say that Mayweather is the best ever - that means you reckon he was better than Sugar Ray Robinson and Sugar Ray Leonard andeven Roy Jones Jnr ?????

No way

Mayweather looked great last night - because he is a master of his craft - but he held all the aces - Marquez was outgunned in every department this was clear to see before the first bell.

You cant started calling a fighter the greatest ever because he outgunned a smaller man who was at every disadvantage.

some of the stuff u wrote there is utter bollocks

Matter of opinon - nothing I wrote there was a fact - just as what you say in repsonse to my post - is just a opinon - no fact.

I thought mayweathers defence last night was amazing, however its another victory over a guy that involves some kinda controversy (weight).

Pacman/cotto/moseley/williams These are the fights he needs to further his legacy

ALI wrote: He has failed to fight the very best in just about every weight class he has fought in, yet the majority of fans and writers fail to see this. I am dumbfounded by it.

Who would you say he's ducked then?

Floyd is a great boxer (i nearly typed fighter but changed my mind). Is he the best pound for pound fighter in the game today? At the moment yes, although I think Shane Mosley will give him a good argument and I agree that a younger version of Mosley would beat Floyd. Is Floyd the best ever? No. He isn't in my book. That doesn't mean I don't respect him but I think on a pound for pound basis I could probably name 20 fighters who would beat him.
1. Sugar Ray Robinson. The best welterweight and fighter (did type fighter this time) ever. Bigger than Floyd, hit much harder, just as quick and had better footwork. At welterweight I think Robinson would stop a man hurt by Corley and Judah. SRR late KO.
2. Sugar Ray Leonard. Again, bigger than Floyd and very similar level of speed and technical ability but two major factors. He hit harder and he threw hard, flashy combinations. Leonard on points after showing that Floyd can be hit regularly.
3. Tommy Hearns. Too big and hits too hard. I genuinely believe that Hearns stops the pretty boy in the first half of the fight.
4. Roberto Duran. Lets make this at lightweight, Floyds potshotting with single punches wouldn't keep a fit, lightweight Duran away. I think Floyd would be battered after 8-10 rounds.
5. Shane Mosley - lets take the Mosley who dominated fighters at lightweight. Almost as quick as Floyd but hits harder and takes a punch better. Mosley on points.
6. Pernell Whitaker - a peak Whitaker is in my eyes a better technician than Floyd. Points win.

I'll stop there and ive tried to stick around the welterweight division (sort of) as thats where Floyd is but if I made it pound for pound then Floyd wouldn't make my top 20. Guys like DLH & Trinidad at their peak would have tested him seriously. Henry Armstrong anyone? Seriously, I'll admit that Floyd Mayweather Junior is a great fighter but no, he isn't the best there ever was. If he goes on to beat fighters of the caliber of Manny, Williams, Cotto, Mosley then maybe I will elevate him up my list but I can't see him beating all four of them. Seriously, can you?

Well ok, ducked is the wrong word but:

@ Superfeather we had Frietas, for example
@ Lightweight we had Paul Spadafora, Artur Grigorian.
@ Superlightweight (or lightwelter) - Kostya Tszyu, Miguel Cotto
@ Welterweight Antonio Margarito, Cotto (again), Mosley, Williams

And trying to be honest here, the only ones who would have genuinely had a chance of winning would have been (in my view) Tszyu, Cotto, Margarito, Mosley and Williams.

All these fighters were regaded as one of the top in their respective divisions.