Henry Cooper and Muhammed Ali revisited. What if............

[p4p1]

as always a great contribution

[p4p1]

That's a winner.

LOL

Erm no, its fact actually.

In the world inhabited by the devout members of The Religion of Ali

all excuses for their hero are 'facts.'

"He was too young then."

"He was too old then."

"He wasn't trying."

"He tripped over his shoelace."

"If you say he missed a punch you are a racist."

etc blah blah blah

more great contributions

[granberry]

.
collins has recruited his whole crew of aliases and stooges here.

Soon we will hear from Frankie Hate-America LaRaza and Rick ('greatest of all time') Farris.

We may not see raylawc, because the last time collins sent him in face first collins stooge raylawc got burned badly when on collins' instructions he quoted a 'quote' of one of my posts falsified by one of collins' sycophants

without checking the actual quote.


Everyone here remembers when homosexually fixated sicko collins ran to the moderators to complain when I posted a comic book cover that featured the faces of four greats of Mexican boxing--Kid Azteca, Juan Zurita, Joe Conde, and Baby Casanova.



collins wanted the posted deleted because he thought it had nothing to do with boxing.

WHY?

Because collins never heard of Kid Azteca, Juan Zurita, Joe Conde, and Baby Casanova.

collins didn't know who they were..

And his buddy 'moderators' actually deleted the post at his direction, because they didn't know who Kid Azteca, Juan Zurita, Joe Conde, and Baby Casanova were either.

LOL

[Collins2000]

Bobby, please delete the above post unless you want me to mention the spunk stains again.

[granberry]

Bobby, please delete the above post unless you want me to mention the spunk stains again.

collins, the homosexually fixated nephew of one of the owners of boxrec,

directs the boxrec 'moderators' on what 'moderating' they should do.


Everyone here remembers when collins ran to the moderators to complain when I posted a comic book cover that featured the faces of four greats of Mexican boxing--Kid Azteca, Juan Zurita, Joe Conde, and Baby Casanova.



collins wanted the posted deleted because he thought it had nothing to do with boxing.

WHY?

Because collins never heard of Kid Azteca, Juan Zurita, Joe Conde, and Baby Casanova.

collins didn't know who they were..

And his buddy 'moderators' actually deleted the post at his direction, because they didn't know who Kid Azteca, Juan Zurita, Joe Conde, and Baby Casanova were either.

LOL

[Collins2000]

Gran, can you show us the inside pages............................. or are they all stuck together now?

[granberry]

Gran, can you show us the inside pages............................. or are they all stuck together now?

collins will now tell us all about Kid Azteca's long career

and then how Juan Zurita happened to be a lightweight champion.

Then he will tell us all about Joe Conde and Baby Casanova.

collins has never made a post on the subject of boxing

and he never will.

[Robinson]

Gran man

Could you start a thread telling us about Kid Azteca. You have me curious
about him. Not that curious like you are, but curious all the same.

[Collins2000]

Gran, have you ever watched Ali - Cooper (1)? Or are you, once again, relying on a Bert Sugar article for your views?

Sit back in your wheelchair, adjust your colestomy bag to a comfortable position, try to free your mind of frustrated, angry, bitter thoughts and I'll take you back to that night at Wembley Stadium in 1963.

Feel free to butt in with pictures of spoof-stained wank mags as and when you feel the need.

Round 1
Ali seems to think he's already the king, wearing some sort of paper crown as he enters the ring.

Cooper, a pro for 10 years, doesn't seem perturbed.

Cooper gets the left hook to work early and Ali looks surprised at how aggressive Cooper is. Ali tries a bit of holding but the old pro isn't having any of that and keeps the left hook going. Ali gets a bit upset and complains to Tommy Little about something. Ali realises Cooper is better than his record suggests.

10-9 - Cooper

[Collins2000]

Round 2

Cooper still the aggressor but Ali has now started to get the left jab going.

Close round but I thought Cooper just shaded it.

10-9 - Cooper

[Collins2000]

Round 3

Copper picks up a bad cut over his left eye during a torrid exchange early in the round.

Ali sees how bad it is and you can see him relax knowing Cooper won't be going 10 rounds with that sort of injury.

Ali, who had started like he meant business this round, starts clowning while Cooper, knowing he is on borrowed time, keeps up the attack.

10-9 - Cooper

[Collins2000]

Round 4

Ali has been told to cut out the clowning and get to work.

Cooper still throwing that left hook but now Ali is starting to pick him off.

A few seconds before the end of the round, Cooper lands the perfect left hook. Luckily for Ali he was against the ropes but he still went down heavily. Up at about 3 as the bell rings to end the round.

10-8 - Cooper

[Collins2000]

The Famous`Intermission

Ali is very shaken. They are giving him smelling salts in the corner. About half way through the break he stands up as if he still hasn't got his bearings. They are sponging him down furiously. More smelling salts.

Tommy Little comes to the Ali corner on the 60 second mark. He spends about 5 seconds there then walks over to side of the ring, leans over and speaks to someone.

He then starts the 5th round.

That's it.

No change of gloves.

No noticeable delay.

(I understand that what Little was doing was asking one of the stewards to see if he could locate a spare set of gloves in case a change had to be made later. The events in the next round made this a moot point.)

[Collins2000]

Round 5

Ali starts the round aggressively; you'd never think 30 seconds earlier he was looking dazed and confused in his corner.

A lovely right hand knocks Cooper sideways and worsens the cut left eye.

Ali has decided now is the time to end it (he predicted the 5th too) and goes after Cooper unlike he has in the previous 4 rounds.

Tommy Little calls a halt to inspect the cut and at the same time the towel comes in from Cooper's corner. Little waves the fight off.


Not a particularly good showing by Ali. No wonder Liston felt confident when he signed to defend his title against The Louisville Lip.

[BoxBuzz]

So what your saying Collins is that Cooper battered him from pillar to post knocked him down and made him look bad for four rounds. Ali was completely out on his feet as they marched him out of the arena to "change his gloves".

Under the guise of a "glove change" they gave Ali the entire following evening to take shelter at the local Marriot while the befuddled crowd waited and Cooper was forced to stay awake all night standing in his corner until Ali had rested for a full 8 hours, breakfasted and back in time for the bell to ring for the 5th.

No one looked after Coopers cuts during the overnight rest and Cooper was pretty much bled out at the time of the bell. Cooper, the Ref and Ali are all slipping about on the blood on the canvas and the Ref is giving Ali another needed break to "inspect the cuts" when Eddie Futch sneaks in to throw in a towel to stop the fight right before Cooper would have taken Ali's head off for good. During the confusion the Ref awards the fight to Ali and all of Ali's hacks are intimidating everyone around and reminding them that this never happened. Meanwhile Futch sneaks out but not before granberry is able to snap the only picture of Eddie running for the exit. Granberry has that pic above his mantle and it will be on the cover of his new book "Ali, The Champ who never won a fight".

Do I have it right?

[Collins2000]

Buzz, leave the 'humour' to those of us that can do it with a bit of panache.

[BoxBuzz]

Panache? Yep, what was I thinking? completely forgot about the need for panache! It just so happened that Futch was running out shirtless, back to the camera and had obviously just finished quite a workout before the towel event.....

[Robinson]

Round 5

Ali starts the round aggressively; you'd never think 30 seconds earlier he was looking dazed and confused in his corner.

A lovely right hand knocks Cooper sideways and worsens the cut left eye.

Ali has decided now is the time to end it (he predicted the 5th too) and goes after Cooper unlike he has in the previous 4 rounds.

Tommy Little calls a halt to inspect the cut and at the same time the towel comes in from Cooper's corner. Little waves the fight off.


Not a particularly good showing by Ali. No wonder Liston felt confident when he signed to defend his title against The Louisville Lip.

I think it more people WATCHED the fights, instead of read about the myths surrounding them
alot of forum threads would be less interesting...

[Collins2000]

Round 5

Ali starts the round aggressively; you'd never think 30 seconds earlier he was looking dazed and confused in his corner.

A lovely right hand knocks Cooper sideways and worsens the cut left eye.

Ali has decided now is the time to end it (he predicted the 5th too) and goes after Cooper unlike he has in the previous 4 rounds.

Tommy Little calls a halt to inspect the cut and at the same time the towel comes in from Cooper's corner. Little waves the fight off.


Not a particularly good showing by Ali. No wonder Liston felt confident when he signed to defend his title against The Louisville Lip.

I think it more people WATCHED the fights, instead of read about the myths surrounding them
alot of forum threads would be less interesting...

It amazes me that many of the posters in here have extreme views but don't seem interested in actually viewing the fights and giving their opinions.

[Robinson]

I guess Sugar needs to sell books and be little fighters. While the
experts sit around and agree with him.

[BroughtonRulesRefuge]

It amazes me that many of the posters in here have extreme views but don't seem interested in actually viewing the fights and giving their opinions.

- Not nearly so amazing as you ignoring me while mentioning me daily and even showing up on my thread.

WHOA........ALERT the press: MAN BITES DOG........BREAKING NEWS: LITTLE COLLIE REVIEWS REAL FIGHT CLIP.

Will miracles ever cease?

[Mr E]

Can't understand why the tempers flair so quickly around here but c'est la vie.

In my opinion, there is nothing, no event, no indication of any kind, in Ali's long career to suggest Henry Cooper was capable of knocking him out. Ali got up immediately after being knocked down because he could get up, and because reports of his dire condition have been wildly exaggerated. Had that hook landed at the beginning of the round instead of at the end of it, Ali would have taken a moment or two to collect his thoughts and then shortly resumed waxing Cooper's tail, which by then was thoroughly underway.

A more interesting question that the Cooper fight raises, I think, is how Ali would have handled Jack Dempsey. Dempsey was the same size as Cooper and his left hook was AT LEAST as potent. Plus, Dempsey had a right hand to go along with it, was better at delivering his punches, was faster, tougher (didn't cut), more durable, harder to hit, and absolutely better in every way. And, even if Ali was never in any realistic danger of losing, Ali most certainly did have some trouble with Cooper. Most fans today would bet Ali in a landslide over the Mauler but I'd make it closer to even money.

[raylawpc]

Can't understand why the tempers flair so quickly around here but c'est la vie.

In my opinion, there is nothing, no event, no indication of any kind, in Ali's long career to suggest Henry Cooper was capable of knocking him out. Ali got up immediately after being knocked down because he could get up, and because reports of his dire condition have been wildly exaggerated. Had that hook landed at the beginning of the round instead of at the end of it, Ali would have taken a moment or two to collect his thoughts and then shortly resumed waxing Cooper's tail, which by then was thoroughly underway.

A more interesting question that the Cooper fight raises, I think, is how Ali would have handled Jack Dempsey. Dempsey was the same size as Cooper and his left hook was AT LEAST as potent. Plus, Dempsey had a right hand to go along with it, was better at delivering his punches, was faster, tougher (didn't cut), more durable, harder to hit, and absolutely better in every way. And, even if Ali was never in any realistic danger of losing, Ali most certainly did have some trouble with Cooper. Most fans today would bet Ali in a landslide over the Mauler but I'd make it closer to even money.

Excellent post.

[BoxBuzz]

I like the Dempsey discussion here. But this is certainly not an Ali that was at his prime so Jack would have faced quite bit more savy opponent than Cooper did.

Granberry that film you posted certainly does clearly show what recuperative ability the then "Clay" had. And though his bell was rung he came back out and took clear command in the 5th. Cooper seemed to sort of wilt with what Ali was dishin' out there.

Don't you agree?

[Robinson]

I think what hurt Ali is that he did not take Cooper too seriously. Silly because
he was humbled by Henry. It is an ashame for Cooper that he cut so easily.