BoxRec

"Prime" it says in the thread... Prime Calzaghe, was that the one who fought Kessler, Lacy or hopkins? I'd say prime was one of those versions?

Wales wrote:"Prime" it says in the thread... Prime Calzaghe, was that the one who fought Kessler, Lacy or hopkins? I'd say prime was one of those versions?

his mario viet version was formidable it was just he had bigger fights at the end so im not sure if vlume or power is his prime

Adamj1987 wrote: which calzaghe are we talking about? the early championship reign 1 where he had a leathel right hand or the "slapping" version

I don't think it'd matter -- for all my love for Nige he'd eventually have gassed from swinging & missing.

Once he did that, you didn't need to be a devastating hitter to do him, unfortunately. I'd pick Freddie Mills, as I said before, because he had the size & workrate to keep on Calzaghe no matter how often he was made to miss, & I think he was sturdy enough that Calzaghe couldn't have hurt him.

Oh yeah, & John Conteh 'cos of the height, reach, power & his stand-up, orthodox skills. He was like Kessler, but about twenty times better.

Adamj1987 wrote:

jamesmcdonnell wrote:Benn's style would have been tailor made for Calzaghe. He'd have eaten so many shots on the way in it would have been painful to watch.

I love Benn, a real blood and guts warrior, but no way would he have beaten Calzaghe.

For one thing, Calzaghe's chin was a hell of a lot better than Nige's.

it would of been like the robin ried fight excpet benn would of had more effect also. which calzaghe are we talking about? the early championship reign 1 where he had a leathel right hand or the "slapping" version

What, so Nigel Benn fought like Robin Reid did he? Reid was a cagey counterpuncher, these types have always given Calzaghe problems, as Calzaghe likes people who come to him.

Either version of Calzaghe I'm sure would have stopped Benn.

Adamj1987 wrote:

Wales wrote:"Prime" it says in the thread... Prime Calzaghe, was that the one who fought Kessler, Lacy or hopkins? I'd say prime was one of those versions?

his mario viet version was formidable it was just he had bigger fights at the end so im not sure if vlume or power is his prime

Or was it that Veit was nowhere near as good as his latter opponents, thus making him look better than he was??

I think Kessler is the best he's beaten, and for some of the rounds (when he wasnt messing about) he was the "best complete boxer" Ive seen him play.

Watson and Conteh would have given him a hell of a fight in his prime but I reckon he'd take the rest of the above......some he already has.

Its hard to say definatively (well even harder than normal) cause you have so many different definitions of his prime.

Was it even before the Eubank fight when his hands were not as damaged. He didn't score many "authentic" KO's during his championship days (Veit in fight 1 and Sobot and thats it). Was his power simply not up to it (to the level of before) or was it cause of his hands.

That would play a part in deciding who would beat him. I think Herol Graham in his pomp would have boxed his brains off.... but Herol had a habit of finding a way to lose, so wondering if Joe would be able to KO him.

I think Eubank would have beaten him in his absolute pomp. He gave him a great fight when over the hill, rusty and ill prepared.

Conteh would have been too good.

Watson also... the rest I would have fancied Joe. Although the one fighter I would have loved to have seen fight Joe in a prime vs prime fight (and it maybe should have happend) was Crawford Ashley.... Ashley hit like a mule.

think collins would have beaten a YOUNG calzaghe, if they could ever have fought in mid/late 90s and if collins could have stayed a solid world class pro into 1997. collins would've been well hard to keep off, especially with joe's slaps. up at super middle he was reet handful, was collins.

think dean francis would have a good chance due to precision punching. i mean, the immature calzaghe who flapped at starie and jiminez and let thornberry go the distance. i know joe beat francis in the amas. but i think francis developed a mature style earlier. while both were young world ranked pros, francis would have a good chance. (on the other hand, he could fade midway and joe could well grind him down before francis picks up 2nd wind - in this mythical battle of highly talented, injury prone brits.)

while eubank and benn were far more compelling, interesting, charismatic pros, i would actually give collins and francis a better chance.

obviously, i'm not talking about prime joe. but that's because i am thinking about the times that the above fights could have conceivably happened. collins or francis could maybe have happened, given the timing, if collins hadn't had his problem at the end and if deano hadn't thrown that lead right that forever cast a question mark on his right shoulder.)

hitman_hatton1 wrote:wouldn't have tipped any of the british fighters against him.

certainly not eubank.

not with his workrate.

he'd probably get a lucky decision or else score a dramatic late KO! or drop him late and let him off bloody hook!

never can be sure with eubank.

Collins - Joe would have outworked for a scrappy MD win ala Hopkins
Eubank - Joe works too hard for any version of Eubank wins clear UD
Watson - difficult fight, although JC would win a close UD
Benn - JC wins by 8-10 KO after being floored early doors
Reid - a prime JC without knackered hands wins easily
Conteh - Conteh wins by split decision

Good topic this.

How about Naz v:

McGuigan
Hodkinson
McDonnell
etc etc etc

Autobarn wrote:think collins would have beaten a YOUNG calzaghe, if they could ever have fought in mid/late 90s and if collins could have stayed a solid world class pro into 1997. collins would've been well hard to keep off, especially with joe's slaps. up at super middle he was reet handful, was collins.

think dean francis would have a good chance due to precision punching. i mean, the immature calzaghe who flapped at starie and jiminez and let thornberry go the distance. i know joe beat francis in the amas. but i think francis developed a mature style earlier. while both were young world ranked pros, francis would have a good chance. (on the other hand, he could fade midway and joe could well grind him down before francis picks up 2nd wind - in this mythical battle of highly talented, injury prone brits.)

while eubank and benn were far more compelling, interesting, charismatic pros, i would actually give collins and francis a better chance.

obviously, i'm not talking about prime joe. but that's because i am thinking about the times that the above fights could have conceivably happened. collins or francis could maybe have happened, given the timing, if collins hadn't had his problem at the end and if deano hadn't thrown that lead right that forever cast a question mark on his right shoulder.)

Collins I think also would have been to strong for Calzaghe. He was MASSIVE for the weight.

Francis vs Calzaghe would have been a great fight, ironically whilst I think potentially Francis had the talent to be the best of the lot in terms of how he would have faired against top American's etc. I think style wise he was all wrong for Joe... Francis had it all, but his weakest shot was ALWAYS his right hand.

Francis was very good, could have been very very good.

Calzaghe however is an all time great

jamesmcdonnell wrote:Benn's style would have been tailor made for Calzaghe. He'd have eaten so many shots on the way in it would have been painful to watch.

I agree. If you watch Benn vs. Eubank I, you can see that in round 2 and 3 Chris Eubank was already beginning to make Benn pay for wide efforts. I wouldn't call them sloppy because they were fight-enders lol, Eubank was making them miss by a whisker at times.

I don't think many of us would bet our house on Joe or against him against the very best

Whats all this about Benn being outclassed and getting stopped? When did anyone have an easy night with Benn? When did Calzaghe anyone face an offensive force like Benn? And Please don't say Lacy who was never a puncher or particularly good. Calzaghe's lack of defense and his lack of power may be put to the test here. Benn's stamina was fine in his SMW reign and he finnished strong against Eubank and McClellan

Wrists wrote:Francis was very good, could have been very very good.

Calzaghe however is an all time great

All time great, domestically... or all time great world wide.

well defo domestically

difficult world wide - probably just a bit short, not as short as some on here make out.

massively difficult fighter to beat i reckon for anyone thats ever lived around 168-175

Autobarn wrote:

hitman_hatton1 wrote:wouldn't have tipped any of the british fighters against him.

certainly not eubank.

not with his workrate.

he'd probably get a lucky decision or else score a dramatic late KO! or drop him late and let him off bloody hook!

never can be sure with eubank.

Thing about Eubank is that if you forced him to fight, he was very dangerous indeed. Even in their fight at the end of Eubank's career, Chris had Joe in a lot of trouble late in the fight. Imagine a younger, hungrier and fitter Eubank.

Eubank's poor performances generally came against lesser opponents who didn't force the issue.

martin_g91 wrote:On that list Michael Watson is a good shout. Would have been a good one that.

I agree with that. The better boxer, on his best day, than Eubank, Benn, Collins etc on theirs...

I'd also say Randy Turpin , only I expect someone will tell me he doesn't count because he was a light middle or something.

jamesmcdonnell wrote:

Autobarn wrote:

hitman_hatton1 wrote:wouldn't have tipped any of the british fighters against him.

certainly not eubank.

not with his workrate.

he'd probably get a lucky decision or else score a dramatic late KO! or drop him late and let him off bloody hook!

never can be sure with eubank.

Thing about Eubank is that if you forced him to fight, he was very dangerous indeed. Even in their fight at the end of Eubank's career, Chris had Joe in a lot of trouble late in the fight. Imagine a younger, hungrier and fitter Eubank.

Eubank's poor performances generally came against lesser opponents who didn't force the issue.

slightly unfair to go off that fight IMO as Joe was fighting his first 12 rounder and was utterly gassed. Eubank was seasoned over the distance.

Eubank was a good "back foot" fighter, who relied on excellent punch selection and accuracy in his pomp (something missing in the Calzaghe fight). His workrate, whilst rightfully criticised, was severely underated (Benn vs Eubank 1 for example) and he had some mean power and an excellent chin.

Collins showed the way to be Eubank, but Collins had bigger power and more stronger than Joe. Joe fight as he did in 1997 against a prime Eubank.. I think Eubank would have picked him off and actually KO him. He rocked Joe badly right at the end of their fight.

Conteh was the best of all of these fighters.He did eventually squander his talent, but for five years or so he was like a light heavy version of Jose Napoles.Just a terrific overall boxer-puncher that could take you out with either hand.

He was also one of the dirtiest fighters i've ever seen.He could maul fighters on the inside and cut them up as good as anyone.It would have been great to see old Hopkins try the kind of punch and grab, then foul tactics against John.He would have been manhandled and butted out of the fight in 5 or 6 rounds.

NorthEastBoxingFan wrote:
I'd also say Randy Turpin , only I expect someone will tell me he doesn't count because he was a light middle or something.

Oi! I've already said Turpin!

Randy was a beast of a man, had a neck like a sequioa, & an unorthodox awkwardness combined with a thumping jab. It is a fight I'd definitely like to have been present for.

Datsue wrote:

NorthEastBoxingFan wrote:
I'd also say Randy Turpin , only I expect someone will tell me he doesn't count because he was a light middle or something.

Oi! I've already said Turpin!

Randy was a beast of a man, had a neck like a sequioa, & an unorthodox awkwardness combined with a thumping jab. It is a fight I'd definitely like to have been present for.

i scrolled down the first 5 comments and didn't see his name and got excited lol

good thread this not like some of the garbage ive seen,

Benn against Calzaghe in the shape of his life like he was for McClellan... now that would have been some fight.

Same goes for Eubank in top form too. Remember how good he could be when he did the weight right (Wharton, Rochigianni in Berlin). And remember he finished stronger than Calzaghe in their fight which he took at short notice. Fair enough, was Joe's first world title fight, but you got the feeling it was two guys going in different directions and like Eubank, Calzaghe had his off nights when things just didn't go right and he had to just gut it out. Both patchy fighters who could look a million dollars one fight and not so good the next.

It's a subjective thing isn't it and difficult when you have guys from different eras crossing over. For example, however good he is, no way do Floyd Mayweather or Oscar De La Hoya beat Sugar Ray Leonard or Tommy Hearns (would Marquez have lasted past four rounds with either of those.... really?). And who can forget a really past it Larry Holmes playing with Ray Mercer, whereas Lennox Lewis had night or death fight with him.

Good topic and proper fight talk in the pub subject that I like. Throws up great answers that get shot down by great answers that get plopped on by better answers etc etc etc:-)