BoxRec

Id pick RJJ or Leonard. It would be a good match, fun to watch,
for those that enjoy slick boxers.

I think the Norris example is not a good indicator, because Ray
was not in his best form nor near it.

You can always count on the Rocket Man to bring the Norris fight up whenever SRL is being mentionned.

Jaywheel wrote:You can always count on the Rocket Man to bring the Norris fight up whenever SRL is being mentionned.

Leonard was done at the time and he was more done when he faced Cammacho but Elton knows that. He was thirty four and hadn't fought in two years when he faced Norris anf forty years old and hadn't fought in six years when he faced Cammacho.

He was 34-1 with two questionable decisions when he lost to Norris but I would argue he did enough to beat Hagler and enough to tie Hearns.

ThatOne wrote: Leonard was done at the time and he was more done when he faced Cammacho but Elton knows that. He was thirty four and hadn't fought in two years when he faced Norris anf forty years old and hadn't fought in six years when he faced Cammacho.

He was 34-1 with two questionable decisions when he lost to Norris but I would argue he did enough to beat Hagler and enough to tie Hearns.

its acceptable to use the Camacho fight as a reference b/c Camacho himself was done and same age group as Ray. It showed the COMPARATIVE superiority of Hector. He knew that the key to beating Ray is NOT to box Ray patiently.

Boxing him patiently plays right into Leonard's hands, beccause he doesnt like being pressed or rushed and makes him lose composure. So Hector smartly boxed him and pressed him. hurt Ray is the way to get his respect and Hector knew that. That's why he won so easily.

Ray had his chance to silence the critics that had been criticizing him for carefully handpicking the elderly and sickly, clubfighter types. They had rightfully been saying he couldnt handle the speedy boxer types. Ray Leonard failed the test even though he had acquired 5 titles and went unbeaten 11 years, a record that had been built up with extreme care.

And the facade all came crashing down Feb 9, 1991.

Your man was supposed to have won with a minimum of problems by having him figured out the the first couple of rounds then begin breaking him down as outlined by his trainer Pepe Cordero. But instead, Terry stayed out of range and broke HIM down.

leonard has never proven he could suceed with this kind of fighter because he had never seen the kind of problems that Norris could present.

Before the fight began, there wasnt one expert that would stick his neck out and predict a Norris win. This shoots down your "Leonard was done at the time and Elton knows that" argument. :P

That is every bit as disingenuous as stretching out Ray's interval from 1 year to 2 years. That secuse reeks of desperation. Just count the months between late December 89 to early Feb 91 and there goes your other claim

"Ray had his chance to silence the critics that had been criticizing him for carefully handpicking the elderly and sickly, clubfighter types."


Like Wilfredo Benitez, Roberto Duran, Tommy Hearns, Marvin Hagler, and Floyd Mayweather Sr.

ThatOne wrote:"Ray had his chance to silence the critics that had been criticizing him for carefully handpicking the elderly and sickly, clubfighter types."


Like Wilfredo Benitez, Roberto Duran, Tommy Hearns, Marvin Hagler, and Floyd Mayweather Sr.

There's such a shortage of names on his resume you resorted to adding Mayweather Sr. as if he was anything close to being the fighter as PBF.

You can thrown out hagler as well, as he was a relic by that time-ready for retirement and it showed.

Benitez was decent but nothing great as he demonstrated.

Hearns 3 years from his prime and underweight; nothing close to the Norris of 91 in terms of speed, versatility, or ring smarts

Duran, still in the process of sweating off the last 10 pounds from the 40 he'd put on over the summer.

Lalonde, Howard, Kalule just dead weight filling up space. A nice payday until the moment of truth in 1991

Like I said, Leonard had his day to prove himself and he wasnt able to-exposed by a real fighter.

We're not talking about worn out fighters Mayweather SR or washed up over the hill Hagler or lalonde.

I would have preferred Micheal Nunn to do the beheading but watching Terry expose Ray as the incompetent bumbling fool that he is, was also satisfying. It reminded me of the Roadrunner-Wile E. Coyote matchups

And remember that we the critics all predicted it would come to this. All Ray had to do was summon the courage to climb in the ring with him

"We're not talking about worn out fighters Mayweather SR"

Floyd Mayweather Sr. was twenty six years old.

"Hearns 3 years from his prime and underweight."

Hearns was 32-0 at the time and had been at that weight his entire career at that time..

"You can thrown out hagler as well, as he was a relic by that time-ready for retirement and it showed"

Hagler was only thirty two years old. Does every fighter got a pass after thrity two years old?

"Benitez was decent but nothing great as he demonstrated."

I didn't know "decent" boxers make it the Boxing Hall Of Fame.

"Duran, still in the process of sweating off the last 10 pounds from the 40 he'd put on over the summer."

That's a novel excuse.

"We're not talking about worn out fighters Mayweather SR or washed up over the hill Hagler or lalonde."



Oy- the stupid makes my head hurt. Lalonde was only twenty eight years old and would go on to box fifteen more years.

Im a big SRL fan but i think RJJ is to big and powerful for him

Jones was good but wasn't at the weight long. Leonard was wiser at 160, more experienced and IMO just as quick. He has the speed and accuracy to get to Jones and the ability to follow up when he hurts him.

Leonard was a great survivor. He had great instincts when hurt. Watch round 2 of the Duran fight. He's gone but puts an amazing lock on Duran preventing him from finishing it there and then.

ThatOne wrote:"We're not talking about worn out fighters Mayweather SR"

Floyd Mayweather Sr. was twenty six years old.

What's funny is you trying to convince me that's really PBF in there doing the fighting. Floyd sr was nothing. Why dont I see his name in the rankings?

ThatOne wrote:"Hearns 3 years from his prime and underweight."

Hearns was 32-0 at the time and had been at that weight his entire career at that time..

The 145 pound, 6-2, malnourished kid with his ribs protruding was 32-0 against who? Most his opposition had already been spanked and ko'd not once but repeatedly and waiting to get knocked off again. It's called expert management.

I tend to give more weight to the comments of Clancy how Tommy's comp had been less than demanding. I just see 1 name on there worth mentioning. Tommy didnt really progress physically or otherwise until some time after he began fighting at his true weight between 154-160

ThatOne wrote:"You can thrown out hagler as well, as he was a relic by that time-ready for retirement and it showed"

Hagler was only thirty two years old. Does every fighter got a pass after thrity two years old?

Tim Ryan "Sugar ray had said that Marvin had lost a lot of speed and was counting on the slowness of Hagler"

that must be why he waited 5 years before taking the fight.

Had himself some pretty paydays afterwards with his detatched retina w/o the use of thumbless gloves.

ThatOne wrote:"We're not talking about worn out fighters Mayweather SR or washed up over the hill Hagler or lalonde."



Oy- the stupid makes my head hurt. Lalonde was only twenty eight years old and would go on to box fifteen more years.

what does Lalonde get a spotlight fight? Hagler had to wait 5 years just to get ONE fight with the spoiled brat while more formidable fighters like Nunn are pased over. Which matchup would you rather see? Dont answer that

ThatOne wrote:"Duran, still in the process of sweating off the last 10 pounds from the 40 he'd put on over the summer."

That's a novel excuse.

But the truth. Randy Gordon who covered both fights for Ring magazine, will fill in all the embarrasing details

Ezzard wrote:Jones was good but wasn't at the weight long. Leonard was wiser at 160, more experienced and IMO just as quick. He has the speed and accuracy to get to Jones and the ability to follow up when he hurts him.

Leonard was a great survivor. He had great instincts when hurt. Watch round 2 of the Duran fight. He's gone but puts an amazing lock on Duran preventing him from finishing it there and then.

Neither was Ray (no middleweight experience) who beat the wiser Marvin Hagler who'd been fighting 160 his whole career.

You might want to put more thought into this before writing. At least read over it once before clicking the submit button

Elton John wrote:

ThatOne wrote:"We're not talking about worn out fighters Mayweather SR or washed up over the hill Hagler or lalonde."



Oy- the stupid makes my head hurt. Lalonde was only twenty eight years old and would go on to box fifteen more years.

what does Lalonde get a spotlight fight? Hagler had to wait 5 years just to get ONE fight with the spoiled brat while more formidable fighters like Nunn are pased over. Which matchup would you rather see? Dont answer that

You said Lalonde was "washed up" and "over the hill". when he fought Leonard. I merely pointed out he was 28 years old and fight fifteen more years after fighting Leonard.

Elton John wrote:

ThatOne wrote:"Duran, still in the process of sweating off the last 10 pounds from the 40 he'd put on over the summer."

That's a novel excuse.

But the truth. Randy Gordon who covered both fights for Ring magazine, will fill in all the embarrasing details

I see. If an athlete loses because he fails to show up in shape on game or fight day it's his opponent's fault.

OK

Elton John wrote:

ThatOne wrote:"Hearns 3 years from his prime and underweight."

Hearns was 32-0 at the time and had been at that weight his entire career at that time..

The 145 pound, 6-2, malnourished kid with his ribs protruding was 32-0 against who? Most his opposition had already been spanked and ko'd not once but repeatedly and waiting to get knocked off again. It's called expert management.

I tend to give more weight to the comments of Clancy how Tommy's comp had been less than demanding. I just see 1 name on there worth mentioning. Tommy didnt really progress physically or otherwise until some time after he began fighting at his true weight between 154-160

Hearnd was undefeated at the time. If my memory serves me correctly the fight was a pickem.

Elton John wrote:

ThatOne wrote:"You can thrown out hagler as well, as he was a relic by that time-ready for retirement and it showed"

Hagler was only thirty two years old. Does every fighter got a pass after thrity two years old?

Tim Ryan "Sugar ray had said that Marvin had lost a lot of speed and was counting on the slowness of Hagler"

that must be why he waited 5 years before taking the fight.

Had himself some pretty paydays afterwards with his detatched retina w/o the use of thumbless gloves.

The "Hagler lost to Leonard because he was done" argument didn't surface until he lost. Curious.


I know you hate the guy but you shouldn't lie about him. You should judge him by the same standards you judge other fighters.

Elton- If Leonard sucked as you suggest how did he bamboozle all these boxing exoerts, ergo:


Ray Leonard was rated by Ring magazine as the # 3 all time welterweight in their 1996 All Time Divisional Ratings, among the 20 greatest fighters of all time in 2000 and among the 10 best fighters of the last 80 years in 2002. The IBRO (International Boxing Research Organization) rated Leonard as the # 2 welterweight of all time in their 2005 member poll.