BoxRec

leforge wrote:Wayne Braithwaite was a former world champ and he went on to beat a good prospect after so give him credit for that one.

Yes, thats his one distinguished win against a fighter who could be classed as "World Title Level" (and even then, somewhat fringe world title level.)

Matthew Ellis, Mohamed Azzaoui, Mark Hobson and Marcelo Fabian Dominguez (who , incidently, once lost to Valuev) simply can not be classed as World Title level fighters.

Enzo should at most be thinking about British level again, or hell- even Prizefighter. It helped Audley.

well then enzo, you know what to do. beat some bad arses, make it clear you are a threat, and raise your game so high that you can win when someone hits you back, and so that you'e the rare money fight for adamek below heavyweight.

in other words, dream on.

FLINT ISLAND wrote:Braithwaite and Domiguez were both good fringe world class wins

The downside to them wins were - both were faded fighters from their best years

Only interested in hearing more about the shed, mate.

oliverfennell wrote:

hurlock wrote:enzo would have a snowballs chance in hell, & despite this why would adamek look at a poor cruiser to boost his heavy career??
let's face it enzo has been exposed by lebedev & that black geezer not too mention haye's obliteration :!:
thread closed.

Oh yeah, that one. There's not that many of them in boxing, so it must be him.

yeah that he can beat DD (ola ofalobi)


enzo would only beat adamek to the shower's

I've really enjoyed this thread. I know some people regard the constant flow of Enzo Mac threads as spam, cluttering the Brit/Irish forum, but they always brighten my day.

adamek's ppl are lobbying for a top 5 WBA ranking, i believe, at heavyweight. hope he can get moved to a shit at haye.

"Poop" at Haye. That's what happens when you type fast, Auto. As the "o" and "i" are next to each other on the keyboard, a title shot can easily become a title shit!

From the article:

BoxRec's valuation of Maccarinelli is even more ridiculous, ranking him 44th. That is behind American Harvey "Candy Man" Jolly — ranked 29th — who has lost more fights than he has won.

Why doesn't Maccarinelli fight Harvey Jolly then? As long as Jolly wins his fight in December, he's going to maintain his relatively high rating. If Enzo is truly shot, Harvey will beat him, if not, Enzo gets himself much further up the Boxrec ladder.

I had great hopes for Enzo prior to the Haye fight. He lost badly and has shown since he just does not belong among the best at CW. I expected him to retire which I think he should have done.

I would be more worried if Enzo carried on thinking he couldn't beat Adamek.

You might call it dellusional, and it probably is. However, belief in your ability is prevalant to a boxer.

I remember Sugar Ray Leonard AFTER losing to Camacho, but initially said he wouldn't retire, saying he still had belief he could be Roy Jones.

forcefraser wrote:Flint, do you think that Enzo has the mental strength to fight again at the top level? I am tempted to believe that he was shot "mentally"

To be fair he showed cojones against Lebedev - he took a fearsome pummelling in that third round and, whilst he couldn't find a way out, he wasn't looking for an early bath either. That makes me think his heart is still there.

Problem is, I don't think the talent is anymore. Wayne Braithwaite aside, he was mostly brought up on nothing fighters and the talent coming into the division in the last couple of years has made it tough to see a way back for him.

whicker wrote:

leforge wrote:Wayne Braithwaite was a former world champ and he went on to beat a good prospect after so give him credit for that one.

Yes, thats his one distinguished win against a fighter who could be classed as "World Title Level" (and even then, somewhat fringe world title level.)

Matthew Ellis, Mohamed Azzaoui, Mark Hobson and Marcelo Fabian Dominguez (who , incidently, once lost to Valuev) simply can not be classed as World Title level fighters.

Enzo should at most be thinking about British level again, or hell- even Prizefighter. It helped Audley.

Dominguez losing to Valuev can hardly be counted as a bad defeat, considering as Dominguez is 5ft 9 and a cruiserweight.

And Braithwaite was hardly a fringe champion. He was WBC champion and lost a decision in a unification to Mormeck.

Get some perspective rather than just picking holes in someone's record and pretending it's analysis.

I think Enzo's a good fighter who lost his confidence after losing to Haye. Happens to lots of boxers. Ever since then he has seemed to go in the ring with the world on his shoulders, making what used to seem natural very difficult.

gobbles wrote:

whicker wrote:

leforge wrote:Wayne Braithwaite was a former world champ and he went on to beat a good prospect after so give him credit for that one.

Yes, thats his one distinguished win against a fighter who could be classed as "World Title Level" (and even then, somewhat fringe world title level.)

Matthew Ellis, Mohamed Azzaoui, Mark Hobson and Marcelo Fabian Dominguez (who , incidently, once lost to Valuev) simply can not be classed as World Title level fighters.

Enzo should at most be thinking about British level again, or hell- even Prizefighter. It helped Audley.

Dominguez losing to Valuev can hardly be counted as a bad defeat, considering as Dominguez is 5ft 9 and a cruiserweight.

And Braithwaite was hardly a fringe champion. He was WBC champion and lost a decision in a unification to Mormeck.

Get some perspective rather than just picking holes in someone's record and pretending it's analysis.

I think Enzo's a good fighter who lost his confidence after losing to Haye. Happens to lots of boxers. Ever since then he has seemed to go in the ring with the world on his shoulders, making what used to seem natural very difficult.

just shows you how sh1t valuev is mate.

gobbles wrote: Dominguez losing to Valuev can hardly be counted as a bad defeat, considering as Dominguez is 5ft 9 and a cruiserweight.

And Braithwaite was hardly a fringe champion. He was WBC champion and lost a decision in a unification to Mormeck.

Get some perspective rather than just picking holes in someone's record and pretending it's analysis.

I think Enzo's a good fighter who lost his confidence after losing to Haye. Happens to lots of boxers. Ever since then he has seemed to go in the ring with the world on his shoulders, making what used to seem natural very difficult.

Well, the Dominquez loss to Valuev was one of 6, he's also lost to Johnny Nelson . But the real question- who has he beaten.

Well, he did win and defend once the WBC title- in 1996-97. But other than that, he wasn't opperating (at least, he wasn't winning) at even close to World level during the years before he faced Enzo.

As for Braitwaite- True, he was a World Champion, but before fighting Enzo he had lost twice, only winning a comeback fight- and sinse he has lost widely to Steve Cunningham.

The point here is that Braitwaite is the only notable "scalp" on Enzos record.

Bobby Gunn, Mohammed Azzauio, Mark Hobson, Matthew Ellis... These are the other men he has beaten.

With no disrespect to them, these are simply levels below the World Championship level.

I don't think "loss of confidence" was (or is) the issue.

gobbles wrote:Dominguez losing to Valuev can hardly be counted as a bad defeat, considering as Dominguez is 5ft 9 and a cruiserweight.

I love this photo.

whicker wrote:

gobbles wrote: Dominguez losing to Valuev can hardly be counted as a bad defeat, considering as Dominguez is 5ft 9 and a cruiserweight.

And Braithwaite was hardly a fringe champion. He was WBC champion and lost a decision in a unification to Mormeck.

Get some perspective rather than just picking holes in someone's record and pretending it's analysis.

I think Enzo's a good fighter who lost his confidence after losing to Haye. Happens to lots of boxers. Ever since then he has seemed to go in the ring with the world on his shoulders, making what used to seem natural very difficult.

Well, the Dominquez loss to Valuev was one of 6, he's also lost to Johnny Nelson . But the real question- who has he beaten.

Well, he did win and defend once the WBC title- in 1996-97. But other than that, he wasn't opperating (at least, he wasn't winning) at even close to World level during the years before he faced Enzo.

As for Braitwaite- True, he was a World Champion, but before fighting Enzo he had lost twice, only winning a comeback fight- and sinse he has lost widely to Steve Cunningham.

The point here is that Braitwaite is the only notable "scalp" on Enzos record.

Bobby Gunn, Mohammed Azzauio, Mark Hobson, Matthew Ellis... These are the other men he has beaten.

With no disrespect to them, these are simply levels below the World Championship level.

I don't think "loss of confidence" was (or is) the issue.

I don't think it's as easy as just saying he has been found out at a higher level. Maybe by Haye and Lededev, but he's a better fighter than Afolabi and just looked dreadful in that. Maybe he's just a bit gun shy, bit like what happened to Derry Mathews, who suddenly appeared to lose it. Mathews should have beaten Lawton or Ramagoadi.

Enzo is a lovely family man but he is now gun shot and should retire.

Enzo would get beaten by Rob Norton!

chesh wrote: "Poop" at Haye. That's what happens when you type fast, Auto. As the "o" and "i" are next to each other on the keyboard, a title shot can easily become a title poop!

damn

haye says he won't rule out adamek fight. says adamek needs to be able to get american or british TV interested. (IRONICALLY: adamek draws big crowds stateside, but has to beg for scraps re TV money.)

at WBA convention, someone was lobbying for a top 5 WBA ranking for adamek.

looks like adamek will keep busy after smashing golota last month (THE most googled subject on morning of Oct 27). feb 6 fight in america vs rahman could be happening.

enzo maccarinelli - on the outside looking in.

Autobarn wrote:enzo was carefully matched and now he doesn't do so well when the other guy hits him back.

Thats about the size of it. Enzo was never all that good and Adamek is World Class. Mismatch.

gobbles wrote:

whicker wrote:

leforge wrote:Wayne Braithwaite was a former world champ and he went on to beat a good prospect after so give him credit for that one.

Yes, thats his one distinguished win against a fighter who could be classed as "World Title Level" (and even then, somewhat fringe world title level.)

Matthew Ellis, Mohamed Azzaoui, Mark Hobson and Marcelo Fabian Dominguez (who , incidently, once lost to Valuev) simply can not be classed as World Title level fighters.

Enzo should at most be thinking about British level again, or hell- even Prizefighter. It helped Audley.

Dominguez losing to Valuev can hardly be counted as a bad defeat, considering as Dominguez is 5ft 9 and a cruiserweight.

And Braithwaite was hardly a fringe champion. He was WBC champion and lost a decision in a unification to Mormeck.

Get some perspective rather than just picking holes in someone's record and pretending it's analysis.

I think Enzo's a good fighter who lost his confidence after losing to Haye. Happens to lots of boxers. Ever since then he has seemed to go in the ring with the world on his shoulders, making what used to seem natural very difficult.

it's not dominguez and braithwaite that are the problem. it's more the shocking step down fights like azzaouia (awful) and gunn.

the last wave of top warren fighters seemed to plateau, to reach a certain level and stay at it. i find this very frustrating and i wonder if it really hurt enzo mac's career. yes, the haye fight was delivered, i believe they were tricked into the fight by haye, but mac didn't have too many competitive rounds to prepare him for the speed and power of hayemaker.

by contrast i liked how haye did things, the way he bridged european scene to world scene. haye is a fighter i like because once he has the prize, he'd not content to sit on it. he wants the next biggest prize and he won't step down a level.

Autobarn wrote:it's not dominguez and braithwaite that are the problem. it's more the shocking step down fights like azzaouia (awful) and gunn.

the last wave of top warren fighters seemed to plateau, to reach a certain level and stay at it.

Yeah- I tend to agree.

My point is that the biggest wins in his career was Braithwaite- a great win, for sure, and the Argentine (more modest, all things considered- but a decent win.) But who else has he beaten that comes even close to World level?

Which swings back to your point (and the topic) when Enzo did get matched at the top level, he was outclassed so quickly against Haye.

Good luck to Enzo, but I think it's time for people (himself included) to move away from this view that he is a World Title level, until he can notch up some more wins.

A comeback fight or two, then a British Title challenge would be good.

Also, what's next few Denis Lebedev? He did beat Enzo, after all. (assuming he gets through his next fight)

I didn't realise (and I was there live!) but enzo was fighting for a title against him.