MightyWarrior wrote:bennie wrote:MightyWarrior wrote:
I thought Leonard won it, Hagler fought the wrong fight by trying to outbox Sugar Ray. Should've steam rolled him like he did Hearns.
Yes, Hagler fought a stupid fight. I could never fathom why until I read an article on Rich Rose, former Nevada State Athletic Commissioner. Rose said that Hagler's immense pride was jarred by someone coming out of three years retirement to take him on, even if that someone was Sugar Ray Leonard. Hagler wanted to humiliate Leonard as a result and actually tried to outbox the master boxer in an attempt to do so. The more I watch the tape, the more I agree with Rose. Hagler blew it.
It took him years to get over that decision of course. It's a shame Leonard didn't give him a rematch. Sugar Ray took on Lalonde, Hearns and Duran in the two-and-a-half years that followed his shock win - and still looked good. So the fact he refused to take on Hagler during that same period speaks for itself. Leonard was no fool. he knew he'd kidded Hagler out of it.
The scorecard of the fight can be found here:
http://www.sommet.net/wbc1/home/latest/ ... gi?ID=3557
Couldn't access that page bennie, comes up unavailable - Come to think of it, it might've been a Mexican judge who came up with all those even rounds - Jo Jo something??
Yes Leonard really conned Hagler that night - Marvin's managers came in for some stick too - for agreeing to every demand Ray made before the fight, all to their man's disadvantage - ie the large ring for one.
Then Marv made things worse by coming out orthodox(??) and getting outboxed in the early rounds.
At one point, he responded to Leonard's showmanship by raising his arms in the air during a round - something Hagler
never did. Just added to the impression he was gettting sucked into Ray's type of fight..
Leonard was a master of psychological warfare ( though Duran was more than a match in those stakes for a younger Leonard ).
I don't think De La Hoya could've beaten him for instance.
Not sure about Roy Jones - do you think he'd have beaten Leonard, at middleweight for instance?
Good points, MW. I believe Hagler could have also got a 15-rounder if he'd really pushed (as you know, the last 15-rounder took place a year later), but again gave way to Leonard's camp. You can understand why he wanted to humiliate the Sugar Man.
Came across an interview on the now mellower Marvin you might find interesting.
Regarded as one of the greatest middleweights of all time, Marvin Hagler described his passion for boxing this way: 'I played it like a man, but I loved it like a boy.' Born in Newark, but raised in Rocky Marciano's hometown of Brockton, Marvelous - a first name he legally adopted - successfully defended his middleweight crown 12 times, just two shy of Carlos Monzon's mark. All but one of those defences ended by stoppage or knockout.
Trained and managed for most of his career by Goody and Pat Petronelli, Hagler won the 1973 AAU middleweight title before turning pro with a second round win over Terry Ryan later that year. His first world title crack ended in a draw against Vito Antuofermo in Las Vegas in 1979. He made no mistake a year later against Alan Minter in London, the referee being forced to stop the fight in the third round.
Hagler's 1985 war with Tommy 'The Hitman' Hearns is often referred to as the greatest fight in history. In 1987, Marvin lost his title to Sugar Ray Leonard on split decision. Unable to secure a rematch, he retired from boxing. He was inducted into the International Boxing Hall of Fame in 1992.
What do you remember about the fight against Tommy Hearns, considered by many as the greatest fight of all time?
There was no love there between Tommy and myself. We respect each other now, but there was no love there and that fight was war. I trained very hard for that fight. I worked really hard on my combinations and my power and all the things that I needed to do in order to win. That Tommy Hearns fight would have to be the highlight of my career because I needed that one outstanding fight to show the world that I was a great champion.
How do you feel when you watch that fight on tape?
I get chills all through my body again because you remember so well being in the heat of the battle and what was happening. I can see how the people think that fight was one of the best fights in history. Because it was war. That fight showed my ability and what people appreciated about my fighting. I was glad I was able to show that - to gain, finally, that respect for being a great world champion. It took me a long time to gain that respect and that's what I wanted to end up with. Not to be a great champion but to know that I was the best one out there at the time. That's what I strived for. Not the greatness. I think the greatness the public puts on you when you're finished. Then they can say you're great.
All athletes love the competition but not necessarily the preparation. What about you?
For me, I loved training. That was the easiest part about the fight game because I loved being in shape and I loved training. I really pushed my body to its limit inside the gym. The main thing is not trying to leave all your fight inside the gym. But I realized that what you do inside the gym you have to do in the ring. So I practiced very hard, and sometimes what you do in the gym can make the fight that much easier.
Is there a fight you remember having more butterflies for than another?
I liked to get the butterflies because then I knew I would do well. If you don't get the butterflies then it feels as though you're going into the ring too overconfident, and that is when you can find your butt on the deck. I'd rather see the other guy's butt on the deck.
It's no secret you wanted a rematch with Sugar Ray and you were upset he did not offer you one.
I thought he should have given me a rematch. I think if I was the champion, I would have given him the rematch. With the fight between me and Leonard, there was no knockdown or anything like that. So there's nothing that you can say to convince me why I still wasn't champion. That is all in the past and I'm looking for the future. But it did take me a while to get through it because to me it wasn't justice. It hurt a lot. We challenged Leonard for a rematch and waited around for a whole year. I knew the kind of games he was playing. Basically, they were waiting for me to get older so he would think my timing was gone and he could take advantage of that. For me, he just didn't have the heart of a champion. The way that I saw it, he should've given me the opportunity for a rematch. And after that, I starting seeing him playing games. So then, I just thought: 'Forget this guy. This guy really doesn't want to fight.' I felt as though I had accomplished everything in my career and the only thing left for me to do was to have a rematch with him. Things like this happen. It's the boxing game and it just wasn't there.
When did you know that you could be a great fighter?
After the fight with Bennie Briscoe, the top dog in Philadelphia, I really knew I had the ability of becoming a champion. After that fight, Briscoe gave me the best comment of all saying, 'You're going to be champion.' That inspired me because this was a world-ranked contender who had fought for the title three times. By me beating him, I realized I was on my way then.
In your mind, who was the greatest fighter of all time?
Naturally, the first thought that comes to mind would have to be Muhammad Ali. He was a tremendous athlete and he was the man for the sport. He brought the highlights, the money and everthing to the sport, especially the art, the real good art of boxing. Ali is more my time. But before my time, it would have to be Joe Louis or Rocky Marciano.
You are from the same hometown as Rocky Marciano. Did that have any impact on you?
He was a great inspiration for me. Now in Brockton, we have two world champions in a town that no one really knows about. It's a shoe city that produced two world champions. I had a great following from people in Brockton and a lot of people at that time had great hopes for me. This enabled me to push and to put that sacrifice in there and bring the things that I wanted - the big fights.
I read that you wanted to be a baseball player but that changed after you met Floyd Patterson.
Floyd Patterson was my idol when I was a young kid growing up. This guy had a lot of heart. He was a good boxer and he was the youngest heavyweight to win the title at that time. I was really impressed with him. He gave me an education about being a gentleman. Every time I had seen this guy inside the ring, he was a tough warrior. But when he was outside, he was a total gentleman. And that was the way that I really wanted to carry myself.
What has boxing given you?
I loved the boxing game. It's been good to me. It's been a great education for me, a teacher not only inside the ring but in life totally. Just looking at life and feeling good about yourself and your accomplishments. I believe I had a gift from God. It took a lot of time just mastering that art. That's the way I always took my boxing, as an art. I played it like a man but I enjoyed it like a boy.
