BoxRec

HomicideHenry wrote:yeah and i bet u'd be the one making it, and bet Louis couldn't knock him out either.

I think Joe Louis would have stopped the Ali of 1980. He had nothing against Holmes. It was like watching an autopsy on a live person.

and what version of Ali would Louis not be able to kayo?

HomicideHenry wrote:and what version of Ali would Louis not be able to kayo?

Any version of Ali from 64-76.

The punch that Ali knocked down Bonavena with.,was remarkably similiar to the one Sugar Ray Robinson
knocked out Gene Fullmer with.Bonavena's head body and body motion when the punch hit,were all in alllignment.

Brutu wrote:The punch that Ali knocked down Bonavena with.,was remarkably similiar to the one Sugar Ray Robinson
knocked out Gene Fullmer with.Bonavena's head body and body motion when the punch hit,were all in alllignment.

I'll have to watch it.

I don't think Ali hit like Dempsey but he didn't hit like Chris Byrd either.

ThatOne wrote:

Brutu wrote:The punch that Ali knocked down Bonavena with.,was remarkably similiar to the one Sugar Ray Robinson
knocked out Gene Fullmer with.Bonavena's head body and body motion when the punch hit,were all in alllignment.

I'll have to watch it.

I don't think Ali hit like Dempsey but he didn't hit like Chris Byrd either.

But more like Byrd than Dempsey. Nevertheless, the left hook he nailed Bonevena with was a beauty, no doubt about that.

Of course Ali could punch and Byrd and Jimmy Young could too. People didn't walk through their punches, all of them could hurt a fighter enough to get their respect. But they didn't commit to their punches like the knockout punchers do.

Guys like Shavers throw good punches with good technique. They shift their weight, turn their bodies, rotate their shoulder, arm and hand, etc. but committing to punches leaves them exposed to counters that they don't see coming.

That is the trade off, the big puncher scores some impressive knockouts, but he might be the victim of some as well. Guys like Ali, Byrd, and Young probably won't be caught by their opponent as they are coming in throwing a punch with their whole body behind it. Throwing punches like that is not their style. When they get caught they usually have seen the punch and while it might hit them hard, they have usually prepared for it.

They might not score many highlight film knockouts but they won't be the victim of many either.

"Any version of Ali from 64-76." - ThatOne

What a joke

Goodnight, Irene wrote:"Any version of Ali from 64-76." - ThatOne

What a joke

Which Ali is Joe Louis knocking out

The 64 Ali , the 65 Ali, the 66 Ali, the 66 Ali,the 67, Ali, the 70 Ali, the 71 Ali, the 72 Ali, the 73 Ali, the 74 Ali, the 75 Ali, the 76 Ali?

Which one?

I'm waiting.

What a joke

P.S. And he isn't knocking out the exiled 67- 70 version of Ali either.

ThatOne wrote:

Goodnight, Irene wrote:"Any version of Ali from 64-76." - ThatOne

What a joke

Which Ali is Joe Louis knocking out

The 64 Ali , the 65 Ali, the 65 Ali, the 66 Ali,the 67, Ali, the 70 Ali, the 71 Ali, the 72 Ali, the 73 Ali, the 74 Ali, the 75 Ali, the 76 Ali?

Which one?

I'm waiting.

What a joke

P.S. And he isn't knocking out the exiled 67- 70 version of Ali either.

1976 and onward, imho. Louis, even if he was decisioned in one fight with Ali, was better in rematches. In a series, it would have been interesting to see who would have come out the better man; Louis absoloutely murdered opponents in rematches, while Ali fought life and death with Frazier and Norton.

HomicideHenry wrote:

ThatOne wrote:

Goodnight, Irene wrote:"Any version of Ali from 64-76." - ThatOne

What a joke

Which Ali is Joe Louis knocking out

The 64 Ali , the 65 Ali, the 65 Ali, the 66 Ali,the 67, Ali, the 70 Ali, the 71 Ali, the 72 Ali, the 73 Ali, the 74 Ali, the 75 Ali, the 76 Ali?

Which one?

I'm waiting.

What a joke

P.S. And he isn't knocking out the exiled 67- 70 version of Ali either.

1976 and onward, imho. Louis, even if he was decisioned in one fight with Ali, was better in rematches. In a series, it would have been interesting to see who would have come out the better man; Louis absoloutely murdered opponents in rematches, while Ali fought life and death with Frazier and Norton.

That wasn't the point. Good Night Irene implied that Joe Louis Would knock out any version of the 64-76 Ali.

Louis could see flaws in the young Clay's game that many couldn't. Louis swore up and down that Clay could be countered with a jab, but people dismissed Louis as just being jealous of Ali. I think Louis would have given Ali trouble, more so than the London's, Mildenberger's, Chuvalo's, Terrell's, Folley's and Liston's, because Louis was cool, calculated, focused, and had very fast hands and was very accurate with his blows----however, Louis had trouble with Billy Conn, who was fast, had trouble with Walcott who was very tricky, and trouble with Farr who was an under-rated tactician.

Louis couldn't kayo the 1964-1967 Ali, because I dont think he would have caught him enough times to do so, but he would have been more competitive than Ali's title defense opponents. The Ali of 1968-1969, who knows, he was hog fat for the Marciano computer fight and rusty as hell, so what's the point in questioning such a thing? As for the Ali of 1970-1975, I think Ali would have been there for the taking in early 1970 and near the end of 1975. But thats just me.

HomicideHenry wrote:Louis could see flaws in the young Clay's game that many couldn't. Louis swore up and down that Clay could be countered with a jab, but people dismissed Louis as just being jealous of Ali. I think Louis would have given Ali trouble, more so than the London's, Mildenberger's, Chuvalo's, Terrell's, Folley's and Liston's, because Louis was cool, calculated, focused, and had very fast hands and was very accurate with his blows----however, Louis had trouble with Billy Conn, who was fast, had trouble with Walcott who was very tricky, and trouble with Farr who was an under-rated tactician.

Louis couldn't kayo the 1964-1967 Ali, because I dont think he would have caught him enough times to do so, but he would have been more competitive than Ali's title defense opponents. The Ali of 1968-1969, who knows, he was hog fat for the Marciano computer fight and rusty as hell, so what's the point in questioning such a thing? As for the Ali of 1970-1975, I think Ali would have been there for the taking in early 1970 and near the end of 1975. But thats just me.

The Thrilla was in October of 75. He would have had to slip a lot in two months.

Nobody came close to KOing 64-76 Ali. Please don't say Frazier. He got up immediately after getting hit and boxed the remainder of the round. Ali had one of the biggest hearts in boxing. That's why he is the way he is now.

I dont get why so many guys consider the Manila fight such a great feat. Both Ali and Frazier were getting old, their skills were eroding. Frazier, for instance, had bad arthritis in his back and was legally blind being 20/100 in one eye, its a wonder he wasn't stripped of his license. Both men about killed eachother in there, yes, but still, as I've said it was clear Ali and Frazier were no longer the fighters they were. Ali had one hell of a fight with Ron Lyle that was almost even before the premature TKO in the 11th round, and fought the limited Chuck Wepner that year. It's clear that after 1974 he wasn't the same fighter any more, he was becoming more and more flat footed and relied on the rope a dope more than anything else.

This isnt a matter of Ali decaying in two months, but decaying over a years worth of time.

ThatOne wrote:

HomicideHenry wrote:Louis could see flaws in the young Clay's game that many couldn't. Louis swore up and down that Clay could be countered with a jab, but people dismissed Louis as just being jealous of Ali. I think Louis would have given Ali trouble, more so than the London's, Mildenberger's, Chuvalo's, Terrell's, Folley's and Liston's, because Louis was cool, calculated, focused, and had very fast hands and was very accurate with his blows----however, Louis had trouble with Billy Conn, who was fast, had trouble with Walcott who was very tricky, and trouble with Farr who was an under-rated tactician.

Louis couldn't kayo the 1964-1967 Ali, because I dont think he would have caught him enough times to do so, but he would have been more competitive than Ali's title defense opponents. The Ali of 1968-1969, who knows, he was hog fat for the Marciano computer fight and rusty as hell, so what's the point in questioning such a thing? As for the Ali of 1970-1975, I think Ali would have been there for the taking in early 1970 and near the end of 1975. But thats just me.

The Thrilla was in October of 75. He would have had to slip a lot in two months.

Nobody came close to KOing 64-76 Ali. Please don't say Frazier. He got up immediately after getting hit and boxed the remainder of the round. Ali had one of the biggest hearts in boxing. That's why he is the way he is now.

I dont agree. Many blame the sport for his present condition, but I doubt this to a degree. Why? Because when have you seen Ali get hit so often in the head? It rarely happened, even in the late 70's. He took a tremendous amount of body shots, but that certainly doesnt have a thing to do with neurological damage. Thats just my opinion though, I think Ali was just genetically disposed to end up with Parkinson's.

HomicideHenry wrote:I dont get why so many guys consider the Manila fight such a great feat. Both Ali and Frazier were getting old, their skills were eroding. Frazier, for instance, had bad arthritis in his back and was legally blind being 20/100 in one eye, its a wonder he wasn't stripped of his license. Both men about killed eachother in there, yes, but still, as I've said it was clear Ali and Frazier were no longer the fighters they were. Ali had one hell of a fight with Ron Lyle that was almost even before the premature TKO in the 11th round, and fought the limited Chuck Wepner that year. It's clear that after 1974 he wasn't the same fighter any more, he was becoming more and more flat footed and relied on the rope a dope more than anything else.

This isnt a matter of Ali decaying in two months, but decaying over a years worth of time.

We aren't talking about Ali losing a decision. We are talking about him being knocked out. That's a huge diffeence;especially when he was only stopped once is some two hundred fifty amateur and pro fights.

When was Ali ever close to being stopped from 64-76?

ThatOne wrote:

HomicideHenry wrote:I dont get why so many guys consider the Manila fight such a great feat. Both Ali and Frazier were getting old, their skills were eroding. Frazier, for instance, had bad arthritis in his back and was legally blind being 20/100 in one eye, its a wonder he wasn't stripped of his license. Both men about killed eachother in there, yes, but still, as I've said it was clear Ali and Frazier were no longer the fighters they were. Ali had one hell of a fight with Ron Lyle that was almost even before the premature TKO in the 11th round, and fought the limited Chuck Wepner that year. It's clear that after 1974 he wasn't the same fighter any more, he was becoming more and more flat footed and relied on the rope a dope more than anything else.

This isnt a matter of Ali decaying in two months, but decaying over a years worth of time.

We aren't talking about Ali losing a decision. We are talking about him being knocked out. That's a huge diffeence;especially when he was only stopped once is some two hundred fifty amateur and pro fights.

I thought he was ko'd a couple times in the amateurs and only had about 100 fights.

I believe he was KOed once in the amateurs by Kent Green

Kent Green stopped Cassius Clay in an amateur boxing match. Until the time Muhammad Ali was stopped by Larry Holmes, Green had been the only man (in both the amateurs and pros) that stopped Ali

http://boxrec.com/media/index.php?title=Human:31293

My bad he was 100-5 as an amateur.

That's still 175 fights.

ThatOne wrote:I believe he was KOed once in the amateurs by Kent Green

Kent Green stopped Cassius Clay in an amateur boxing match. Until the time Muhammad Ali was stopped by Larry Holmes, Green had been the only man (in both the amateurs and pros) that stopped Ali

http://boxrec.com/media/index.php?title=Human:31293

My bad he was 100-5 as an amateur.

That's still 175 fights.

Amateur fights don't always speak on your chin either.

Grimm wrote:

ThatOne wrote:I believe he was KOed once in the amateurs by Kent Green

Kent Green stopped Cassius Clay in an amateur boxing match. Until the time Muhammad Ali was stopped by Larry Holmes, Green had been the only man (in both the amateurs and pros) that stopped Ali

http://boxrec.com/media/index.php?title=Human:31293

My bad he was 100-5 as an amateur.

That's still 175 fights.

Amateur fights don't always speak on your chin either.

Then his chin was great as a pro.

"That wasn't the point. Good Night Irene implied that Joe Louis Would knock out any version of the 64-76 Ali." - ThatOne

No, I didn't, you idiot

Goodnight, Irene wrote:"Any version of Ali from 64-76." - ThatOne

What a joke

That was the version of Ali I said Joe Louis couldn't knock out.

I posted it at 17:00. It's there above.


If you want to spend the rest of our time on this board trasding insults let ne know. I'll be glad to oblige you.

If you want to keep falsely attributing quotes or insinuations to me, I'm quite entitled.

I will go slowly.

Homocide Henry asked me which version of Muhummad Ali I thought Joe Louis couldn't knock out

"and what version of Ali would Louis not be able to kayo?"

-Homocide Henry


I said the 64-76 version.

To which you said "what a joke" and figuratively rolled your eyes or is it literally. I'm not there.

Please tell me what inference I was supposed to draw?

My big problem in this thread is this (paraphrased)...

"That wasnt the point. Goodnight, Irene implied that Joe Louis would knock out any version of the 64-76 Ali."

That is so far removed from the reality of what I said, it's laughable.