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Re: tell you this...at 46 holyfield
Posted: 12 Dec 2009, 21:40
by boxerbob
some on here are missing 1 of my points....
im not saying holy at 46 will or can beat vitali or wlad , im saying that he would give them a better fight than the crap yanks that have tried in the last 2 years.
holyfield at 46 would get stopped by the 2 of them but at least he would have a go at trying to beat them
holyfield at 25-34 would beat vitali and wlad quite easy....speed , movement , combinations , thing the robots cant do
Re: tell you this...at 46 holyfield
Posted: 12 Dec 2009, 21:40
by crusader
HomicideHenry wrote:At 47, I reckon Holyfield could still give any top 10 HW a challenging fight. Valuev couldnt hurt him, neither could Ibragimov. He went the distance with both and arguably beat one (Valuev). He may talk punchy, but the man is in better condition than 75% of the HW contenders out there, and has more skill. Against the Klits, I bet 10-1 he could go 8 rounds with either of them and still be in the fight, meaning being competitive.
He will beat Botha, and what then? He's more than a cut above any other 40+ HW out there in the world, and certainly a cut above most the HW contenders---surely he could beat Minto, Golota, Barrett, like Haye, Adamek and Arreola done. It wouldnt surprise me if Holyfield couldnt beat Ruiz again, or beat other top American HW's like Estrada.
He's got as much a chance as any, to beat the Klits as anyone else, even at this point. Call me crazy, but Holyfield still has it to make giants like Valuev look foolish, punch out awkward quick movers like Oquendo, and certainly has what it takes to out brawl Frans Botha inside of six rounds.
Are you basing this all off his loss to Valuev? How can he be competitive with the Klitschkos, who are head and shoulders above the rest of the division, when he wasn't competitive with Toney, Donald, or Ibragimov? He should stick to fighting the Botha's of the world or get back to exhibitions against African middleweights.
Re: tell you this...at 46 holyfield
Posted: 12 Dec 2009, 21:41
by crusader
boxerbob wrote:some on here are missing 1 of my points....
im not saying holy at 46 will or can beat vitali or wlad , im saying that he would give them a better fight than the crap yanks that have tried in the last 2 years.
holyfield at 46 would get stopped by the 2 of them but at least he would have a go at trying to beat them
holyfield at 25-34 would beat vitali and wlad quite easy....speed , movement , combinations , thing the robots cant do
I get your point and think your wrong. He wouldn't be competitive at all. Wladimir is quite fast for a guy of his size by the way.
Re: tell you this...at 46 holyfield
Posted: 12 Dec 2009, 22:05
by HomicideHenry
crusader wrote:HomicideHenry wrote:At 47, I reckon Holyfield could still give any top 10 HW a challenging fight. Valuev couldnt hurt him, neither could Ibragimov. He went the distance with both and arguably beat one (Valuev). He may talk punchy, but the man is in better condition than 75% of the HW contenders out there, and has more skill. Against the Klits, I bet 10-1 he could go 8 rounds with either of them and still be in the fight, meaning being competitive.
He will beat Botha, and what then? He's more than a cut above any other 40+ HW out there in the world, and certainly a cut above most the HW contenders---surely he could beat Minto, Golota, Barrett, like Haye, Adamek and Arreola done. It wouldnt surprise me if Holyfield couldnt beat Ruiz again, or beat other top American HW's like Estrada.
He's got as much a chance as any, to beat the Klits as anyone else, even at this point. Call me crazy, but Holyfield still has it to make giants like Valuev look foolish, punch out awkward quick movers like Oquendo, and certainly has what it takes to out brawl Frans Botha inside of six rounds.
Are you basing this all off his loss to Valuev? How can he be competitive with the Klitschkos, who are head and shoulders above the rest of the division, when he wasn't competitive with Toney, Donald, or Ibragimov? He should stick to fighting the Botha's of the world or get back to exhibitions against African middleweights.
You forget that Ibragimov went the distance with the better of the two Klits, and Holyfield went the distance with Ibragimov. David Haye looked like crap against Valuev, as did Chagaev and Ruiz, who all went the distance with Valuev in losing and winning efforts---Holyfield was robbed against Valuev.
I aint saying Holyfield could beat Wlad or Vitali, all I'm saying is, he can be competitive at least for half of a scheduled 12 rounds with either one---Vitali looked like shit tonight against Johnson and is 40 himself---its not out of the relm of possibility that Holyfield can go rounds and mix it up with the Klitschkos.
Re: tell you this...at 46 holyfield
Posted: 12 Dec 2009, 22:42
by crusader
HomicideHenry wrote:crusader wrote:HomicideHenry wrote:At 47, I reckon Holyfield could still give any top 10 HW a challenging fight. Valuev couldnt hurt him, neither could Ibragimov. He went the distance with both and arguably beat one (Valuev). He may talk punchy, but the man is in better condition than 75% of the HW contenders out there, and has more skill. Against the Klits, I bet 10-1 he could go 8 rounds with either of them and still be in the fight, meaning being competitive.
He will beat Botha, and what then? He's more than a cut above any other 40+ HW out there in the world, and certainly a cut above most the HW contenders---surely he could beat Minto, Golota, Barrett, like Haye, Adamek and Arreola done. It wouldnt surprise me if Holyfield couldnt beat Ruiz again, or beat other top American HW's like Estrada.
He's got as much a chance as any, to beat the Klits as anyone else, even at this point. Call me crazy, but Holyfield still has it to make giants like Valuev look foolish, punch out awkward quick movers like Oquendo, and certainly has what it takes to out brawl Frans Botha inside of six rounds.
Are you basing this all off his loss to Valuev? How can he be competitive with the Klitschkos, who are head and shoulders above the rest of the division, when he wasn't competitive with Toney, Donald, or Ibragimov? He should stick to fighting the Botha's of the world or get back to exhibitions against African middleweights.
You forget that Ibragimov went the distance with the better of the two Klits, and Holyfield went the distance with Ibragimov. David Haye looked like crap against Valuev, as did Chagaev and Ruiz, who all went the distance with Valuev in losing and winning efforts---Holyfield was robbed against Valuev.
I aint saying Holyfield could beat Wlad or Vitali, all I'm saying is, he can be competitive at least for half of a scheduled 12 rounds with either one---Vitali looked like poop tonight against Johnson and is 40 himself---its not out of the relm of possibility that Holyfield can go rounds and mix it up with the Klitschkos.
Yes Ibragimov went the distance with Wlad, but he was horrendously outclassed and lost nearly every round. When Holyfield fought Ibragimov he lost nearly every round and was far to slow to mount any meaningful offense. Chagaev officially beat Valuev and was then battered and outclassed by Klitschko, not winning a single round. Donald also beat Holyfield, yet he was easily stopped by Vitali. All these guys who have recently beaten Holyfield have NOT been competitive when they got the chance to face a Klitschko.
There is absolutely nothing to suggest that Holyfield could be competitive vs either Klitschko. He hasn't scored a win over a top 10 fighter in almost 8 years, yet he has lost to fighters like Donald, Toney, and Ibragimov who are really many rungs below both brothers.
Re: tell you this...at 46 holyfield
Posted: 12 Dec 2009, 23:22
by el_grande_mauro_mina
NutCracker wrote:What about the Ukrainian robots? would he have a chance against them?
Well actually, they are Kazakhstani.. or born there anyway!
Re: tell you this...at 46 holyfield
Posted: 12 Dec 2009, 23:24
by crusader
Carlos-Wigan wrote:NutCracker wrote:What about the Ukrainian robots? would he have a chance against them?
Well actually, they are Kazakhstani.. or born there anyway!
Actually Vitali was born in Kyrgyzstan
Re: tell you this...at 46 holyfield
Posted: 12 Dec 2009, 23:27
by el_grande_mauro_mina
crusader wrote:Carlos-Wigan wrote:NutCracker wrote:What about the Ukrainian robots? would he have a chance against them?
Well actually, they are Kazakhstani.. or born there anyway!
Actually Vitali was born in Kyrgyzstan
But are both US citizens, so its all bollox anyway!
Re: tell you this...at 46 holyfield
Posted: 12 Dec 2009, 23:29
by crusader
And now they live in Germany
Re: tell you this...at 46 holyfield
Posted: 13 Dec 2009, 05:18
by Autobarn
overhand_right wrote:Holyfield schooled Valuev - he certaonly did more than David Haye.
i can't believe this nonsense.
holyfield did nowhere near enough, whereas haye - by tossing in a quick shot now and again - did enough.
it was simply a difference in reflexes. evander can't move and punch, whereas haye can.
Re: tell you this...at 46 holyfield
Posted: 13 Dec 2009, 12:15
by HomicideHenry
Autobarn wrote:overhand_right wrote:Holyfield schooled Valuev - he certaonly did more than David Haye.
i can't believe this nonsense.
holyfield did nowhere near enough, whereas haye - by tossing in a quick shot now and again - did enough.
it was simply a difference in reflexes. evander
can't move and punch, whereas haye can.
The man danced for the whole 12 rounds, he might as well been Ali
it was so unlike himself to be fighting that way
Re: tell you this...at 46 holyfield
Posted: 13 Dec 2009, 17:03
by stujones
Why do people continually put the Klitschko's in the same bracket. Vitali is much more limited offensively, he has the harder natural power, more fighting guts and a much better chin.... but shot selection, speed, timing and accuracy - Wlad is much better.... Wlad is more than just one two straight punches.
Re: tell you this...at 46 holyfield
Posted: 14 Dec 2009, 07:02
by DavidPayne
Larry Holmes could beat Vitaly Klitschko now.
He's useless. He's not awkward. He just leans back, if someone had the gumption to throw a four punch combination instead of a single jab they may find they hit him on the chin!!!!
He's way over-rated.
Add up the pounds over optimum weight Sanders-Williams-Johnson-Gomez-Arreola-Peter and Johnson were and you'll have enough for a whole new heavyweight.
Re: tell you this...at 46 holyfield
Posted: 14 Dec 2009, 08:52
by stujones
People forget that Holyfield came in at fairly short notice against Ibragimov - that might have had a bearing on his performance - way his worst since he repaired his shoulder.
Re: tell you this...at 46 holyfield
Posted: 14 Dec 2009, 09:21
by gobbles
Carlos-Wigan wrote:
But are both US citizens, so its all bollox anyway!
They're not US citizens, although Wladimir does own a place in Florida. Vitali's main home is Hamburg, that's where his kids go to school, I think he sold his place in LA.
Holyfield is 47.
Re: tell you this...at 46 holyfield
Posted: 14 Dec 2009, 09:37
by Shirow
DavidPayne wrote:Larry Holmes could beat Vitaly Klitschko now.
He's useless. He's not awkward. He just leans back, if someone had the gumption to throw a four punch combination instead of a single jab they may find they hit him on the chin!!!!
.
Did you not see Arreola throwing combinations all night against Vitali. He leant/stepped by and bashed him with 10 rounds worth of hard, hard arm punches.
Re: tell you this...at 46 holyfield
Posted: 15 Dec 2009, 06:01
by forcefraser
I also think that Wlad is by far the better boxer of the two. He is a supreme athlete. Just look at him for christ sake. What he did to Chagaev (although a boring fight) was total domination of an unbeaten champion. He never let him into the fight and schooled him from start to finish.
Vitali is a hard hard man. He grinds people down, but does not have the same skill level of Wlad. I thionk haye beats Vitali but takes a one sided beatdown from Wlad.