BoxRec

Posted: **15 Dec 2009, 12:19**

ThatOne wrote:The hardest hitters in heavyweight history

Graham Houston is the American editor of Boxing Monthly and writes for FightWriter.com.

1 Mike Tyson
2 Sonny Liston
3 Joe Louis
4 George Foreman
5 Rocky Marciano
6 Earnie Shavers
7 Jack Dempsey
8 Joe Frazier
9 Lennox Lewis
10 Max Baer

http://sports.espn.go.com/sports/boxing ... id=3168817

I'd probably remove Tyson, Dempsey and Frazier from that list without even blinking...

Posted: **15 Dec 2009, 12:23**

Ezzard wrote:
ThatOne wrote:The hardest hitters in heavyweight history

Graham Houston is the American editor of Boxing Monthly and writes for FightWriter.com.

1 Mike Tyson
2 Sonny Liston
3 Joe Louis
4 George Foreman
5 Rocky Marciano
6 Earnie Shavers
7 Jack Dempsey
8 Joe Frazier
9 Lennox Lewis
10 Max Baer

http://sports.espn.go.com/sports/boxing ... id=3168817
I'd probably remove Tyson, Dempsey and Frazier from that list without even blinking...

I think Tyson deserves his place on the list.

I don't think he was as naturally heavy handed as Foreman or Shavers for instance, but I think he was actually a better KO artist due to his speed, combinations & 2 handed power.

Posted: **15 Dec 2009, 12:26**

At the end of the day Johansson's win over Patterson is comparable to Rahman knocking Lewis out. There seems to be lots of stuff being written about Ingo on this forum recently however lets get things into perspective. Ingo won against a fighter not known for having a great chin. He lost twice in the rematches. Did he get lucky, possibly, punchers sometimes do, Rahman being a classic example of what happens when a puncher lands cleanly.

Any puncher is dangerous and capable of beating better fighters with one shot. Thats boxing. Ingo, like Lewis beat everyone he fought however he didn't face the same levels of opposition and Lewis or Patterson.

Ingo was a dangerous puncher, not much more to say about him really. Plenty of fighters can claim that accolade.

THE DIFFERENCE BEING IS THAT INGO KNOCKED PATTERSON DOWN 14 TIMES IN THEIR TRILOGY, WHILE RAHMAN WAS A SAD SACK OF SHIT WHO FOLDED IN THE REMATCH AND HAS SUCKED DONKEY BALLS EVER SINCE!!! JOHANSSON WAS PATTERSON'S TOUGHEST OPPONENT OUTSIDE LISTON AND ALI, PERIOD!!!

Posted: **15 Dec 2009, 12:29**

[/quote] There seems to be lots of stuff being written about Ingo on this forum recently however lets get things into perspective. [/quote]

Well,this past June.26th did mark the 50th anniversary of when Ingemar Johansson became THE Heavyweight Champion of the World.
Thats back in the days when there was still only ONE World HW Champion.
Sort of puts in perpective how everythings changed since then.

Posted: **15 Dec 2009, 12:31**

Baer would've whupped Ingo's ass, I have no doubt. Yes he could be wild especially in his title winning effort vs Carnera but he did have good skills and a big arsenal, particualrly was a great body puncher, as shown vs Schmeling and Farr in the rematch. Along with his iron chin he posed a big threat to most any heavyweight, especially the far less durable Johansson whose style relied soley on getting his right hand through. That's not hyperbole . . .just watch his fights.

Posted: **15 Dec 2009, 12:34**

Syntax Error wrote:
I think Tyson deserves his place on the list.

I don't think he was as naturally heavy handed as Foreman or Shavers for instance, but I think he was actually a better KO artist due to his speed, combinations & 2 handed power.

Apologies, Syntax, wanted to see who would bite! I'd ONLY take them off the list as their money shot was the left hook rather than the right (which is what we're discussing here).

Tyson did have a very good right too though.

Posted: **15 Dec 2009, 12:37**

HomicideHenry wrote:
At the end of the day Johansson's win over Patterson is comparable to Rahman knocking Lewis out. There seems to be lots of stuff being written about Ingo on this forum recently however lets get things into perspective. Ingo won against a fighter not known for having a great chin. He lost twice in the rematches. Did he get lucky, possibly, punchers sometimes do, Rahman being a classic example of what happens when a puncher lands cleanly.

Any puncher is dangerous and capable of beating better fighters with one shot. Thats boxing. Ingo, like Lewis beat everyone he fought however he didn't face the same levels of opposition and Lewis or Patterson.

Ingo was a dangerous puncher, not much more to say about him really. Plenty of fighters can claim that accolade.
THE DIFFERENCE BEING IS THAT INGO KNOCKED PATTERSON DOWN 14 TIMES IN THEIR TRILOGY, WHILE RAHMAN WAS A SAD SACK OF SHIT WHO FOLDED IN THE REMATCH AND HAS SUCKED DONKEY BALLS EVER SINCE!!! JOHANSSON WAS PATTERSON'S TOUGHEST OPPONENT OUTSIDE LISTON AND ALI, PERIOD!!!

The point was Rahman and Johansson won the title by knocking a better fighter out. Both were Ring Magazines upsets of the year. They both lost rematches.

Posted: **15 Dec 2009, 12:39**

How many World Heavyweight champions lived to see the 50th anniversary of them winning it?

Posted: **15 Dec 2009, 14:06**

Brutu wrote:How many World Heavyweight champions lived to see the 50th anniversary of them winning it?

Dempsey, Schmeling, Johansson, Sharkey, are the only ones I believe

Posted: **15 Dec 2009, 14:09**

The point was Rahman and Johansson won the title by knocking a better fighter out. Both were Ring Magazines upsets of the year. They both lost rematches.

I wouldnt even put Rahman and Johansson in the same sentence together. Nor would I Oliver McCall, who kayoed Lewis and lost the rematch.

Posted: **15 Dec 2009, 14:12**

dempseyfire wrote:Baer would've whupped Ingo's ass, I have no doubt. Yes he could be wild especially in his title winning effort vs Carnera but he did have good skills and a big arsenal, particualrly was a great body puncher, as shown vs Schmeling and Farr in the rematch. Along with his iron chin he posed a big threat to most any heavyweight, especially the far less durable Johansson whose style relied soley on getting his right hand through. That's not hyperbole . . .just watch his fights.

Baer was good when he wanted to be, that's the problem. He was more inconsistant than Johansson was. Johansson gave Patterson three hard fights in a row. Baer won the title and gave it up, lost to Louis, then started beating up on bums, came back with a good win, then went back down the toilet again. Look at the Carnera/Schmeling fights again, and see how awkward and sloppy Baer was in the ring, rarely was anything thrown straight. Sure Baer had alot of power, damn near Formanesque when he brought his A game---but H2H I think Ingo lands more often, he was quicker than Baer and he wasn't just a right hand, the kayo punch that laid out Machen was a left.

Posted: **15 Dec 2009, 14:40**

HomicideHenry wrote:
Brutu wrote:How many World Heavyweight champions lived to see the 50th anniversary of them winning it?
Dempsey, Schmeling, Johansson, Sharkey, are the only ones I believe

Ingemar Johansson almost made it to live until the 50th anniversary,
He died January-30-2009 in Sweden.

Posted: **15 Dec 2009, 17:21**

Jeffries made it with four years to spare (won title 1899; died 1953).

Posted: **15 Dec 2009, 17:38**

Jess Willard won title in 1915 and died in 1968.(3 yrs and 8 months to spare).

Posted: **15 Dec 2009, 20:08**

Brutu wrote:Jess Willard won title in 1915 and died in 1968.(3 yrs and 8 months to spare).

Thanks for that! I started to write Willard but did the subtraction wrong in my head and came up with 43 instead of 53. Which explains in a nutshell why I am not an accountant. . .

Posted: **15 Dec 2009, 20:13**

"Baer was good when he wanted to be, that's the problem. He was more inconsistant than Johansson was. Johansson gave Patterson three hard fights in a row. Baer won the title and gave it up, lost to Louis, then started beating up on bums, came back with a good win, then went back down the toilet again. Look at the Carnera/Schmeling fights again, and see how awkward and sloppy Baer was in the ring, rarely was anything thrown straight. Sure Baer had alot of power, damn near Formanesque when he brought his A game---but H2H I think Ingo lands more often, he was quicker than Baer and he wasn't just a right hand, the kayo punch that laid out Machen was a left." - Henry

It's admittedly a pretty minor distraction from your main point, but Patterson won the second fight pretty convincingly, without major struggle.

Posted: **15 Dec 2009, 20:16**

Floyd Patterson almost lived to see the 50th anniversary of when he won the Heavyweightitle title.
He won it in November 1956.
He passed away May 2006.

Posted: **15 Dec 2009, 20:27**

Johansson is also one of the few (only?) heavyweight champions to never fight an opponent who had a losing record at the time he fought them. If memory serves, every fighter Ingo fought hadn't lost more fights than he had won at the time Ingo fought him (I think one guy was like 10-10-1 when Ingo beat him).

Posted: **15 Dec 2009, 20:29**

Goodnight, Irene wrote:"Baer was good when he wanted to be, that's the problem. He was more inconsistant than Johansson was. Johansson gave Patterson three hard fights in a row. Baer won the title and gave it up, lost to Louis, then started beating up on bums, came back with a good win, then went back down the toilet again. Look at the Carnera/Schmeling fights again, and see how awkward and sloppy Baer was in the ring, rarely was anything thrown straight. Sure Baer had alot of power, damn near Formanesque when he brought his A game---but H2H I think Ingo lands more often, he was quicker than Baer and he wasn't just a right hand, the kayo punch that laid out Machen was a left." - Henry

It's admittedly a pretty minor distraction from your main point, but Patterson won the second fight pretty convincingly, without major struggle.

Yes, but Patterson was a fortunate man to win the third fight. Ingo almost took him in the first, and appeared to be coming on when knocked down and missing the count in the sixth.

AND, If I remember correctly, Patterson was down 19 times in his career. Johansson was responsible for nine of those knockdowns.

Posted: **15 Dec 2009, 22:50**

Not fortunate, IMO. Patterson trained hard for every fight. He put in the prep to win, no matter what came his way. It was partly poor conditioning which cost Johansson the third fight.

Patterson made that third fight his by prepping well, not by fortune, IMO.

Posted: **16 Dec 2009, 00:05**

Goodnight, Irene wrote:Not fortunate, IMO. Patterson trained hard for every fight. He put in the prep to win, no matter what came his way. It was partly poor conditioning which cost Johansson the third fight.

Patterson made that third fight his by prepping well, not by fortune, IMO.

No, fortunate, IMO. Fortunate that (1) Johansson inexplicably came in out of shape, and (2) that Johansson missed the count al a Quarry against Chuvalo. Had either of those not happened, Johansson probably would have won. IMO.

Posted: **20 Dec 2009, 02:00**

Brutu wrote:Sometimes they get back up too.
Ron Lyle got off the canvas to KNOCK OUT Shavers.
Larry Holmes got off the canvas to TKO Shavers,
and Bernardo Mercado got off the canvas to TKO Shavers.
also James Quick Tillis got up from a apparently devastating knockdown to go on and win on points is fight against Shavers.

Excellent post.

Posted: **20 Dec 2009, 02:01**

raylawpc wrote:
Goodnight, Irene wrote:Not fortunate, IMO. Patterson trained hard for every fight. He put in the prep to win, no matter what came his way. It was partly poor conditioning which cost Johansson the third fight.

Patterson made that third fight his by prepping well, not by fortune, IMO.
No, fortunate, IMO. Fortunate that (1) Johansson inexplicably came in out of shape, and (2) that Johansson missed the count al a Quarry against Chuvalo. Had either of those not happened, Johansson probably would have won. IMO.

Johansson didn't miss the count.

The ref counted nine and said the fight was over.

Posted: **20 Dec 2009, 02:05**

ThatOne wrote:Ring Magazine's 100 Greatest Punchers

1. Joe Louis
2. Sam Langford
3. Jimmy Wilde
4. Archie Moore
5. Sandy Saddler
6. Stanley Ketchell

7. Jack Dempsey
8. Bob Fitzsimmons
9. George Foreman
10. Earnie Shavers
11. Sugar Ray Robinson
12. Ruben Olivares
13. Wilfredo Gomez
14. Rocky Marciano
15. Sonny Liston
16. Mike Tyson
17. Bob Foster
18. Thomas Hearns
19. Khaosai Galaxy
20. Alexis Arguello
21. Carlos Zarate
22. Max Baer
23. Rocky Graziano
24. Matthew Saad Muhammad
25. Julian Jackson
26. Danny Lopez
27. Gerald McClellan
28. Roberto Duran
29. Rodrigo Valdez

30. Felix Trinidad
31. Pipino Cuevas
32. Jim Jefferies
33. Lennox Lewis
34. Bennie Briscoe
35. Marvin Hagler
36. Edwin Rosario
37. Tommy Ryan
38. John Mugabi
39. Joe Frazier
40. Carlos Monzon
41. Tony Zale
42. Michael Spinks
43. Joe Gans
44. Elmer Ray
45. George Godfrey
46. Naseem Hamed
47. Alfonso Zamora
48. David Tua
49. Cleveland Williams
50. Julio Cesar Chavez
51. Tiger Jack Fox
52. Joe Walcott
53. Gerry Cooney
54. Al (Bummy) Davis
55. Max Schmeling
56. Florentino Fernandez
57. Henry Armstrong
58. Bob Satterfield
59. Al Hostak
60. Jesus Pimentel
61. Eugene (Cyclone) Hart
62. Lew Jenkins
63. Harry Wills
64. Tom Sharkey
65. Terry McGovern
66. Jersey Joe Walcott
67. Kostya Tszyu
68. Leotis Martin
69. Buddy Baer
70. Donovan (Razor) Ruddock

71. Jose Luis Ramirez
72. Tommy Gomez
73. Jose Napoles
74. Kid McCoy
75. Antonio Esparragoza
76. Ricardo Moreno
77. Evander Holyfield
78. Ike Williams
79. Luis Firpo
80. Ricardo Lopez
81. Humberto Gonzalez
82. Bobby Chacon
83. Jock McAvoy
84. Eduardo Lausse
85. Eder Jofre
86. Charley Burley
87. Mike McCallum
88. Salvador Sanchez
89. Roy Jones Jr.
90. Rodolfo Gonzalez
91. Nigel Benn
92. (Irish) Bob Murphy
93. Paul Berlenbach
94. Battling Torres
95. Chalky Wright
96. George (K.O.) Chaney
97. Andy Ganigan
98. Fred Fulton
99. Ingemar Johansson
100. Charley White

http://boxing.about.com/od/history/a/ring_punchers.htm

Interesting

Posted: **20 Dec 2009, 02:07**

Goodnight, Irene wrote: Patterson won the second fight pretty convincingly

No one ever won a fight more convincingly.

And Patterson did something remarkable there:

He was the first man ever ever to regain the heavyweight title.

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