BoxRec

Autobarn wrote:

BigEars wrote:So Maloney has a show which nearly bankrupts him, and 1 month later he's talking about Rendall Munroe fighting Bernard Dunne(a fight that could potentially lose him even more money if it were to come off).

Hmm.....

I do feel sorry for Frank as regards the whole Sutherland incident and his heart problems.

a dunne fight would certainly raise the profile of munroe. munroe - an underrated fighter who came up without hype, and achieved a lot in his short career thus far - must be foaming at the mouth to tear the vulnerable irishman apart. but surely it wuld do good business in ireland, in a bigger arena, that dunne could fill up. that said, i don't like the way dunne fell apart v poonsawat, and have to wonder whetehr he'll ever fight at 122 again, if at any weight.

yes it would do better business in ireland, but Maloney was set on either him promoting it(in the UK) or a co-promotion in Ireland(which would be stupid for Peters to agree to), he never even entertained the idea of Munroe fighting Dunne on a Peters promoted show, which would bring no promotional risk to him and would ensure guaranteed profit for him and his man aswell as an opportunity.

Anyway we're kind of getting off topic here, this should be more about the troubles of trying to promote boxing in the UK and I've kind of deviated from that just because Maloney was involved.

Gotta say I really do like Frank Maloney - never met him but my instinct tells me he's a good guy

I would like to hear Steve Wood's response to Frank's comments.
Steve was essentially running the show for this one.

It's clear that even by reading these comments, who are by big boxing fans, shows that boxing is too expensive. Normally at least once a month we will have the temptation of a Pay per view and then if there's a local show the average price is around £50. This is dearer than many football games or to watch many other sports in fact.

When you think that so much boxing is up north and especially around the north west, I can understand why the Moore vs Rhodes show wasn't sold out. I agree with many people on here boxing is too expensive. I think that it needs to be cheaper on a lower level though as how are people going to get interested in a card when the boxers don't even have half decent records or are on their debuts?

Make smaller shows cheaper to encourage people to come back, make them regular so the boxers get more recognised and then don't charge too much for fights that are for no more than European titles. Make it more for the people.

Promotors/venues should also have some kind of membership scheme so it encourages peopple to come back.

twenty six wrote:I would like to hear Steve Wood's response to Frank's comments.
Steve was essentially running the show for this one.

Steve Wood has done wonders for Mr Maloney - absolute wonders!!!

Frank however is a dam good promoters who has survived some very hard and trying times - I think its testimant to his survival skills within a cruel sport how he got through some of the lean times and I am not just on about the very sad and tragic circumstances surrounding the passing away of Darren either. I relish my run ins with little Frank but give credit where it is due he has survived and comeback stronger where others havn't - but I hope Steve Wood gets the recognition he deserves.

I wasn't having a dig at Steve, Spud.
However you only have to do a rough caculation on the total cost of purses alone, to know that it looked inevitable the show lost money - but enough to bankrupt Mini Me ?
Why were so many Championship fights put on one bill ?

twenty six wrote:I wasn't having a dig at Steve, Spud.
However you only have to do a rough caculation on the total cost of purses alone, to know that it looked inevitable the show lost money - but enough to bankrupt Mini Me ?
Why were so many Championship fights put on one bill ?

I reckon someone is exagerating a tadge!!!

There is not a chance that a promoter of Frank Maloney's standing along with his partner Steve Wood - would have entered into the expense on a show like that if it were to bomb the way people are stating - not a chance!!!

They would not have financed the Rhodes/Moore fight without significant backing from Sky TV!!! - many a promoter has cancelled fights or not entered purse bids without the backing of TV revenue - surely Maloney would not have gone alone??

It seems that Spud knows his boxing.......

Mr Guy - less of the sarcasim!!!

Spud wrote:
I reckon someone is exagerating a tadge!!!

Well Spud, in that case its Frank exaggerating as its ther ein black and white, his comments that the show almost sent him bankrupt.

26, it does say in the article something along the lines of his co-promoter suggested he move it to a different venue.... something like that.

Wales/Spud/26 ,

With out going into too much details I would confirm that the show lost money and on top of some other losses and health reasons it made it a hard time for Frank.

The show did not sell as well as we expected but the ringsides all moved , the majority of the £40.00 tickets went , the black hole was the mid ticket prices of £60.00 and £80.00 which did not move at all.

We lost a couple of local undercard ticket sellers which would have made a difference and if you take out the British title fight and Olympian added to the show then it would have broke even. A smaller venue would have meant a profit.

STEVE WOOD

Wales,
I had just created a response when I saw that Steve had posted.
That fits in pretty much with what happened this side of the Pennines.
All our ringsides and cheap tickets got snapped up, but we didn't sell any mid range tickets.
I was not criticising Steve at all with my previous posts I just wanted to hear what Steve had to say.
I still do not believe this one show loss was responsible for nearly bringing Frank's Empire down.I think Steve's "on top of some other losses" is the relevent statement.
On the issue of Sky, as I understand it, there's no negotiation on what Sky pay Promotors these days.
My understanding is that it is often 50% of what's been paid in the past - at a time when Sky want the quality to increase, and every show to have a meaningful title fight as the headliner.

Great thread to read so thanks for starting it Wales
For me, there are two clear issues that are inter-related:

1) The biggest flaw in boxing promotion as things stand is marketing. By contrast, this is where UFC has got it nailed. Strip the two sports down to their bare essentials and boxing should be the more appealing to the non-hardcore fraternity - it's easier to understand what's going on, the ring is easier to view than the cage etc. But what UFC has done is a brilliant job of turning itself into a brand and developing 'personalities' who appeal beyond the hardcore. Boxing promoters, by contrast, have cut corners far too frequently in terms of investment in their product, and most lag in the dark ages when i comes to effective PR and marketing that reaches the 'non-hardcore'.

2) People here have mentioned about ticket prices, but it's not the actual price that's the problem, it's what you term the value-for-money proposition i.e. people are invariably willing to pay if they feel they're getting their money's worth - you'll part with 100 quid if you're guaranteed a packed, competitive fight card, good views, and added value in the form of everything from pre-fight entertainment through to affordable and good food and drink. By contrast, if you've paid 100 quid to see a couple of good fights and six shit ones, from a seat where your view is obscured and where the bar is both extortionately priced and impossible to get served at, you're going to feel utterly ripped off. You only have to look at other sports and events to see it is perfectly possible to deliver strong value-for-money propositions that have the ability to convert 'floaters' into fans of the sport.

Unless boxing deals with these issues (along with the confusing proliferation of titles) it is going to continue to suffer - and in my view rightly so.

Deserter,
You make some valid points.
As an example, and it's not a dig just an example, for the Rhodes Moore fight, my mates ringside (£130 each) got there early and fancied a bite to eat.
Upstairs there was an empty bar, with food being served.
They were asked to pay another £50 each to upgrade to VIP !!!!
Needless to say, they declined gratiously and walked across the road to the local eatery where they were greeted with open arms.
Having paid top dollar for seats I don't get it if I'm honest.
We also has some ladies present.
There were NO TOILETS in the general Arena !!!
They had to queue at a row of unlit portaloos outside the Arena, amongst gangs of lads, having paid £130 to be in the Arena.
Again I just don't get it.
Oh they could have used the ladies inside the Arena - just that they were in the bar where you had to pay £50 to get in !!

twenty six wrote:Deserter,
You make some valid points.
As an example, and it's not a dig just an example, for the Rhodes Moore fight, my mates ringside (£130 each) got there early and fancied a bite to eat.
Upstairs there was an empty bar, with food being served.
They were asked to pay another £50 each to upgrade to VIP !!!!
Needless to say, they declined gratiously and walked across the road to the local eatery where they were greeted with open arms.
Having paid top dollar for seats I don't get it if I'm honest.
We also has some ladies present.
There were NO TOILETS in the general Arena !!!
They had to queue at a row of unlit portaloos outside the Arena, amongst gangs of lads, having paid £130 to be in the Arena.
Again I just don't get it.
Oh they could have used the ladies inside the Arena - just that they were in the bar where you had to pay £50 to get in !!

Twenty Six - I rest my case

The facts are that any business that delivers that type of service deserves to fail. I'm sorry if that sounds harsh, but that's the reality. I've been fortunate enough to meet promoters in other sectors ranging from pop concerts through to other sporting events such as F1 and horse-racing, and the reality is that boxing's light years behind the majority in terms of customer servie and the 'offences' you've outlined above would be sackable ones in those set-ups.

s9s wrote:Boxing has lost the newspapers, there is hardly any coverage and it certainly does not make the back page anymore, Moore v Rhodes a few years ago would have got a page at least, in The Times it was a paragraph.

boxing is too fractionalised for it's own good, so when you lose the support of newpapers the average joe just isn't going to know anything about a decent domestic match up.

I think it's the telegraph online that have Boxing & MMA combined under one tab.

Fridays are very difficult nights to get reports in papers. That time of year, boxing is competing with tons of stuff, notably all the football and rugby previews, while deadlines are awful. On Fridays there is often a first deadline of 7.30 and by the time a fight is over, only the London and Manchester editions can still get it and papers are often reluctant to do any major changes to the edition. I only got 1 par in the paper that day, though I did get a 500-word preview in. I remember when Clinton Woods beat Rico Hoye, the first bell was 11.45pm and the last edition had already gone.

It probably would have got a lot more space 20 years ago, but there are a lot more European/world title fights than there were then and it would have been on BBC/ITV 20 years ago too.

Friday nights are killers for fans, though. It took me 6 hours to get to Bolton that night from London, mostly spent on the M6. When the option is to drive for hours in traffic after work and pay, or watch on TV, it's not surprising many take the cheaper option. Getting around the motorway network on a Friday night is difficult and the late finish means you can't get a train. How many more fans would Matt Macklin have had for his European title fight had it been in Birmingham or on a Saturday?

DavidPayne wrote:

I do sometimes wonder whether a larger event with tickets at £10-£50 would create more turnover than smaller arenas with £150 ringside seats.

I always think the same with football matches in front of half empty crowds. Wouldn't it be better to have a full stadium at £20 a ticket than a half empty one at £40 a pop. They might make the same money but it's better if it's full. People automatically want to attend events they think they might not be able to get tickets for. If you know it'll be empty and you can get a ticket when you please it takes the gloss of it, in my opinion.

winkveron wrote:

DavidPayne wrote:

I do sometimes wonder whether a larger event with tickets at £10-£50 would create more turnover than smaller arenas with £150 ringside seats.

I always think the same with football matches in front of half empty crowds. Wouldn't it be better to have a full stadium at £20 a ticket than a half empty one at £40 a pop. They might make the same money but it's better if it's full. People automatically want to attend events they think they might not be able to get tickets for. If you know it'll be empty and you can get a ticket when you please it takes the gloss of it, in my opinion.

its common sense that you'd make more on the bar, programmes etc... too. Boxing programmes are very poor imo.

My friend had a box at Leeds United until Ken Bates took over.
He immdiately doubled the price of the box, and increased ticket prices in the Lurpak Stand.
He also kicked the families out of their area - which had the much maligned Macdonalds straight behind it, and relocated them to a shitty part of the Stand.
All at a time when the "product" was getting worse and worse.
Leeds this season could be selling out every home game under the old regime - but they still get 30k plus and the fact is the profit is greater now than before.
However the Lurpak Stand is a ghost town.
The upper tier is rarely used.
The boxes lie empty.
What I'm trying to say I suppose is that Sport is a business now be it footie boxing whatever - with a f""k the punter mentality.
Payney as a fellow Yorkshireman do you think Ken Bates (we luv u Chelseeeea) gives a f""k about Leeds United ?
All he's interested in is the balance sheet.
I bet he doesn't give a toss whether they go up or not.

go back to £25 a ticket, £100/£150 ringside and get rid of middle ground prices they do not work it is proven

....... and get the Stewards to work properly.
If you've bought a cheap seat stay there.
One of my major bug bears when I'm selling tickets.
People cough up for ringside then end up sat next to a chav who's pissed after a bottle of carlsberg and has the cheapest ticket you can buy.
Don't get me going .......

twenty six wrote:What I'm trying to say I suppose is that Sport is a business now be it footie boxing whatever - with a f""k the punter mentality.

Sport is undoubtedly a business, but the irony is that it's those that treat the punters well that benefit the most through repeat business and 'word-of-mouth' marketing. I hate to bring it up again, but UFC is a perfect example of that.
If you come back from a show raving about it and what great value-for-money it was, how much easier do you think it's going to be getting a group together for the next one?

this is why i am so appreciative of the fans and realise that without the fans, there would be no boxing. I would go out of my way for fans because to me they go out of theirs to come to shows and watch the shows on TV