BoxRec

Ezzard wrote:Don't get me wrong, I would very rarely bet against Ali. I just enjoy sepculation!

He could be beat. That was demonstrated. I am just not convinced that a reasonably intact Ali could be beat twice.

ThatOne wrote:George Foreman had Archie Moore and Sandy Sadler in his corner; two grizzled wise men. If they couldn't see what was unfurling in front of them (rope a dope) why would Sonny Liston?

It wasn't until the seventh round when a commentator said "Ali is becoming very comfortable with the pace of the fight. Maybe he's content to let George punch himself out."

Foreman was notoriously stubborn, and he even admits he often ignored the advice of his corner and trainers. It's too bad George's corner was not miked-up during the fight; I'm fairly sure Moore and Sadler wern't saying "George, you are fighting just how we planned . . .keep ignoring your left jab and throwing wide-ass inaccurate punches when Ali's against the ropes . . .and keep looking for the one punch KO instead of setting up your power punches . . .you are doing great"

Ezzard wrote:

Seamus wrote:Gotta disagree with that assessment Ezzard. Ali seldom get's credit for the fact that he withstood some tremendous shots (they weren't all blocked or cushioned) from Foreman in the Rumble In The Jungle. Liston quit because he was losing, Foreman made a much better effort.

I think of it like this... Replace Foreman with Liston in Zaire and I think Liston can win OR makes a much better fight of it. Liston wasn't hitting Ali in their fight. Foreman was being invited to tee off. Foreman was having more success but he was losing the battle partly because Ali was so good, partly because he was in Zaire and partly because he fought the wrong fight.

If Liston was in Foreman's place he would not have made the same errors.

If it's the same Liston that showed up 2X against Ali, the results remain the same. Now if you're talking Sonny from 1958 - 1960, he may have beaten Ali from any era.

Big George by KO, against the Liston of 1959/60 harder to call

This would be a hell of a fight. I wouldn't bet a nickel since anything could happen but I'd sell 90% of my belongings to see it live.

I see one of two possibilities: Liston and Foreman go to war and Liston slowly but surely takes control of the fight and is ahead on scorecards. Foreman was taught the telephone pole jab, vicious finishing ability and staredown by none other than Liston when he was a teenager. The master beats the student and wins a split decision/late round tko due to fatigue and too many unanswered punches.

Scenario 2: Foreman jumps on him immediately like the c0oney and frazier fights. If you look at foreman's record he did a very good job methodically and quickly taking out punchers and admitted to such in interviewers. If he can manage to out-bully sonny (a crazy notion and long shot I know) and shove him to set up looping hooks and right crosses he may be able to take out Liston in a fire fight by the 6th round. I don't see the young version of Foreman winning a decision over any version of liston. Too skilled, tough, and accurare.