BoxRec

Goodnight, Irene wrote:Just asking about the accomplishments.

Rocky was more accomplished I guess.

ThatOne wrote: You better be careful. Rocky fans will tell you how big Carmine Vingo and Johnny Shkor was as if they were great fighters.

If you want to sell Holmes on size be my guest but while Larry was big compared to Rocky he was not physically imposing like a Liston or a Foreman. Larry would undoubtedly try to box Marciano from the outside and the result of the fight would hinge on Holmes' abillity to keep Rocky off of him not by his abillity to outmuscle Marciano imo.

i have thought long and hard about this one
i have watched as many fights of marciano's that are available
and i have seen nearly every larry holmes fight numerous times

and i by no means want to disrespect anyones oppinions
but i can not see any way in hell that marciano has a chance

larry is way to skilled for the rock......larry by brutal ko in 5

MEISINGER wrote:i have thought long and hard about this one
i have watched as many fights of marciano's that are available
and i have seen nearly every larry holmes fight numerous times

and i by no means want to disrespect anyones oppinions
but i can not see any way in hell that marciano has a chance

larry is way to skilled for the rock......larry by brutal ko in 5

I just can’t see that. I’d expect Marciano to go out more like Cooney did (only he’d do better than Gerry)…

Firstly by taking a sustained spearing with jabs… And when he does get to Holmes realising he’s in with a tough SOB who will give no quarter… Marciano can win. Lesser fighters had Holmes in big trouble. But I can’t see the fight playing out for Marciano.

ThatOne wrote:

You better be careful. Rocky fans will tell you how big Carmine Vingo and Johnny Shkor was as if they were great fighters.

Ha ha.

To be honest I could never really understand all the hype given to Vingo, his record was quite average 16-1 (and 4 of these fights were rematches). He also didn't beat anyone of note. I've read how much of a terrific puncher he was yet his record doesn't reflect this either, only 7 stoppages in 16 wins.

And Marciano said it was the hardest fight of his career.

Controversial wrote:

ThatOne wrote:

You better be careful. Rocky fans will tell you how big Carmine Vingo and Johnny Shkor was as if they were great fighters.

Ha ha.

To be honest I could never really understand all the hype given to Vingo, his record was quite average 16-1 (and 4 of these fights were rematches). He also didn't beat anyone of note. I've read how much of a terrific puncher he was yet his record doesn't reflect this either, only 7 stoppages in 16 wins.

And Marciano said it was the hardest fight of his career.

What's wrong with rematches?

Ezzard wrote:
What's wrong with rematches?

Nothing wrong with rematches, I just meant for someone with only 16 wins to have 4 sets of rematches is quite high, thats half the number of his wins.

MEISINGER wrote:i have thought long and hard about this one
i have watched as many fights of marciano's that are available
and i have seen nearly every larry holmes fight numerous times

and i by no means want to disrespect anyones oppinions
but i can not see any way in hell that marciano has a chance

larry is way to skilled for the rock......larry by brutal ko in 5

Five sounds about right...because Marciano wasn't as tough --- or anywhere near as good --- as Evengelista, LeDoux, Frank, & the slew of opponents who made it past five rounds.

Goodnight, Irene wrote:

MEISINGER wrote:i have thought long and hard about this one
i have watched as many fights of marciano's that are available
and i have seen nearly every larry holmes fight numerous times

and i by no means want to disrespect anyones oppinions
but i can not see any way in hell that marciano has a chance

larry is way to skilled for the rock......larry by brutal ko in 5

Five sounds about right...because Marciano wasn't as tough --- or anywhere near as good --- as Evengelista, LeDoux, Frank, & the slew of opponents who made it past five rounds.

i do not think you thought that comment out to well.
first off just because i do not think that marciano would not
last 5 rounds like the above named fighters did
is not saying that i think they are better than marciano

styles make fights.....ie frazier and ali tough fights for both fighters
foreman destroyed frazier.....so your logic is saying that foreman destorys ali

evangelista,ledoux and frank were not on the same level as marciano
never once said they were....just saying that with holmes' skill,speed and size
matched with marciano's come at your arse style and lack of true heavyweight or even
cruiserweight size would rocky stand a chance

a difference of oppinion.but a logical difference.

It's called being glib.

There is nothing logical about Larry Holmes KOing Rocky Marciano in five rounds.

Goodnight, Irene wrote:It's called being glib.

There is nothing logical about Larry Holmes KOing Rocky Marciano in five rounds.

there is also no logic to a 5'10'' short armed 185lb man
competing with superheavyweights

You're right.

Marciano wasn't in the same league as an old Norton, a green Witherspoon, or a 19-8-0 Weaver --- all of whom gave a prime or borderline-prime Holmes serious trouble.

Even Zanon, who had the punch resistance of a 12-year-old, lasted six rounds with Holmes.

Goodnight, Irene wrote:You're right.

Marciano wasn't in the same league as an old Norton, a green Witherspoon, or a 19-8-0 Weaver --- all of whom gave a prime or borderline-prime Holmes serious trouble.

Even Zanon, who had the punch resistance of a 12-year-old, lasted six rounds with Holmes.

yeah i know the fighters from yesteryear
would kill these guys today....yada yada yada

athletes develop compare 100 meter times from 1950's to todays
compare weightlifting records from 1950's to today

holmes was a better athlete than marciano

can we not just agree to disagree
you stated your oppinion and i stated mine
not knocking your choice just stating mine

A few points.

Styles make fights as well as the age of the participants.

I don't think Holmes would knock Rocky out but he would give him a heck of a beating. Holmes is too big, too skilled, too fast for Marciano. We are talking about a 5'9 190 pound boxer with a 67 inch reach going up against a 6'4 215 pound boxer with a 80 inch reach. Holmes is not going to let Rocky get inside and when he does get inside Holmes is strong enough to tie him up.

Holmes wins a lopsided decision unless the bout is stopped against Rocky's will on cuts.

Just my two cents for what it is worth.

MEISINGER wrote: holmes was a better athlete than marciano

Hmm not sure about that, fitness wise not many can compete with Marcianos stamina and endurance levels. I think Holmes wins but more to his overall size, boxing ability, jab and decent chin.

ThatOne wrote:
Styles make fights as well as the age of the participants.

Holmes is too big, too skilled, too fast for Marciano. We are talking about a 5'9 190 pound boxer with a 67 inch reach going up against a 6'4 215 pound boxer with a 80 inch reach.

Holmes wins a lopsided decision unless the bout is stopped against Rocky's will on cuts.

Your sizes are slightly out but thats how I see the fight. Size doesn't always matter but when you are talking about a big world class boxer against a small world class slugger then I find it hard to see Marciano being skilled or strong enough to impose himself on Holmes.

Controversial wrote:

MEISINGER wrote: holmes was a better athlete than marciano

Hmm not sure about that, fitness wise not many can compete with Marcianos stamina and endurance levels. I think Holmes wins but more to his overall size, boxing ability, jab and decent chin.

ThatOne wrote:
Styles make fights as well as the age of the participants.

Holmes is too big, too skilled, too fast for Marciano. We are talking about a 5'9 190 pound boxer with a 67 inch reach going up against a 6'4 215 pound boxer with a 80 inch reach.

Holmes wins a lopsided decision unless the bout is stopped against Rocky's will on cuts.

Your sizes are slightly out but thats how I see the fight. Size doesn't always matter but when you are talking about a big world class boxer against a small world class slugger then I find it hard to see Marciano being skilled or strong enough to impose himself on Holmes.

Rocky is listed as 5'11 but that's generous.

"yeah i know the fighters from yesteryear
would kill these guys today....yada yada yada

athletes develop compare 100 meter times from 1950's to todays
compare weightlifting records from 1950's to today

holmes was a better athlete than marciano

can we not just agree to disagree
you stated your oppinion and i stated mine
not knocking your choice just stating mine" - Meis

1. If you bothered to read my postings which you respond to, I picked Holmes to win the fight.

2. Holmes isn't, "a guy of today." His prime ended in the early-80's.

3. Boxing is not the same in its, "evolution" as other sports. To compare it, directly, with weight-lifting or sprinting is just flat-ignorant.

4. Holmes is, "a better athlete?" Fascinating. I heard Marciano had better grammar & a wider vocabulary. This isn't a decathlon, it's a Boxing match. Of course, you're making the point because you don't differentiate between athlete & boxer.

5. Old vs. New red herrings aside, almost no one went out in five rounds against Holmes. Marciano hits the deck for a ten-count in that space of time?

Yeah...& then Holmes goes on to drop a wide UD to Foreman in his next mythical match-up.

"Hmm not sure about that, fitness wise not many can compete with Marcianos stamina and endurance levels..." - Contro

What does that matter, though, when Marciano was born in 1923, & Holmes in 1949? We all know the calendar counts ;)

Saying Holmes is more athletic is probably a poor choice of words. Rocky was athletic enough to be seriously considered as a pro baseball prospect but he was the more gifted athlete physically. But Rocky would be giving up so much size to a world class boxer. If size didn't matter there wouldn't be weight classes in boxing.

Rocky did not have the best set of skills and started some what late.
BUt here is the thing. He became a student of the game and trained
harder than any other man going at that time.

A man that pushes himself that hard in the gym, digs so deep during
a fight and refuses the concept of defeat...is a danger. Some times
during a fight, when your hurt, gassed, tired or things are not going
your way...you some times ask yourself..."should I just lose, and
go home early", nearly every fighter has this moment, however brief.

I do not believe Marciano ever had this moment.

I also do not believe Holmes did either...hence his longevity and his
ability to get up from a KO and turn things around.

Robinson wrote:Rocky did not have the best set of skills and started some what late.
BUt here is the thing. He became a student of the game and trained
harder than any other man going at that time.

A man that pushes himself that hard in the gym, digs so deep during
a fight and refuses the concept of defeat...is a danger. Some times
during a fight, when your hurt, gassed, tired or things are not going
your way...you some times ask yourself..."should I just lose, and
go home early", nearly every fighter has this moment, however brief.

I do not believe Marciano ever had this moment.

I also do not believe Holmes did either...hence his longevity and his
ability to get up from a KO and turn things around.

You are 100% right but it's also that faith in oneself that can get you seriously hurt against a vastly superior opponent who is just as determined as you. I think that's what would happen in a match betwen Rocky and Larry.

Determination of will and faith in one self are slightly different.

Faith in oneself is in some ways self delusion, or arrogance. Alot of
guys who have never trained have faith inself.

The Rock had a determination of will. He trained to breaking point,
worked himself into peak condition all through his career. This is
the process that is extremely important.

I see Larry beating him and staying safely at range from the Rock,
but a guy like Marciano who is relentless and conditioned like he
was is always a danger.

I think Holmes does better against a Marciano than say an Ali does,
though both men are similar in a casual glance, they are different
in so many other aspects. I think Marciano would be trouble for
Ali. Though I do see Ali winning, but not as comfortable (if you can
call it that) as say a Larry Holmes would.

MEISINGER wrote:

Goodnight, Irene wrote:It's called being glib.

There is nothing logical about Larry Holmes KOing Rocky Marciano in five rounds.

there is also no logic to a 5'10'' short armed 185lb man
competing with superheavyweights

Well, Holmes punched like a 185lb man so Marciano should be able to take it allright.

Of course he did.

"Well, Holmes punched like a 185lb man so Marciano should be able to take it allright." - Hhaere