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Re: ALI DEPICTING JOE FRAZIER AS A "GORILLA"

Posted: 08 Mar 2010, 13:14
by SaadOffTheDeck
LOL

Re: ALI DEPICTING JOE FRAZIER AS A "GORILLA"

Posted: 08 Mar 2010, 13:20
by SaadOffTheDeck
No need for the Bible thumping. I laughed at your question before your edit. The Bible is predominantly a work of fiction and I fail to see the connection to Ali. Other than the fact that he is obviously a God to you. You should read up on your commandments, worshiping false Gods is a no-no.

Edit: Good of you to remove that nonsense.

Re: ALI DEPICTING JOE FRAZIER AS A "GORILLA"

Posted: 08 Mar 2010, 13:28
by ThatOne
SaadOffTheDeck wrote:No need for the Bible thumping. I laughed at your question before your edit. The Bible is predominantly a work of fiction and I fail to see the connection to Ali. Other than the fact that he is obviously a God to you. You should read up on your commandments, worshiping false Gods is a no-no.

Edit: Good of you to remove that nonsense.
Is he a god to me ? No.

Is he somebody I tremendously admire and respect?

Yes

Is he my favorite athlete?

Yes, hands,down


Do I think the Bible is a work of fiction?



No, though I do think some of the accounts are allegories.

Re: ALI DEPICTING JOE FRAZIER AS A "GORILLA"

Posted: 08 Mar 2010, 13:29
by SaadOffTheDeck
Thanks for clearing that up.

Re: ALI DEPICTING JOE FRAZIER AS A "GORILLA"

Posted: 08 Mar 2010, 13:34
by ThatOne
SaadOffTheDeck wrote:Thanks for clearing that up.

You are welcome, sir.

As you can clearly see my role here is primarily reactive. I start precious few if any threads at all to laud Muhammad Ali. If somebody who didn't know anything about boxing began to read this board they might conculde that Muhammad Ali was not a good boxer. As long as I have a breath and an internet connection I can not let that happen.


PEACE
THATONE

Re: ALI DEPICTING JOE FRAZIER AS A "GORILLA"

Posted: 08 Mar 2010, 13:40
by SaadOffTheDeck
Not from me, I just have a major issue with this behavior. I grew up on Ali and became a Frazier man as an adult. All of this crap was unnecessary and can't be defended. I do understand dealing with Granberry, not sure why you bother.

Re: ALI DEPICTING JOE FRAZIER AS A "GORILLA"

Posted: 08 Mar 2010, 13:46
by ThatOne
SaadOffTheDeck wrote:Not from me, I just have a major issue with this behavior. I grew up on Ali and became a Frazier man as an adult. All of this crap was unnecessary and can't be defended. I do understand dealing with Granberry, not sure why you bother.

I have been careful in this thread and other threads not to attack Frazier. But he wasn't a cardboad saint either.

There are few boxers I intensely dislike beside Mike Tyson and even then there are mitigating factors that makes me see him in a larger light.

Re: ALI DEPICTING JOE FRAZIER AS A "GORILLA"

Posted: 08 Mar 2010, 13:47
by granberry
From The London Times October 30, 2008

Was the Greatest really a racist?
. . .
Yet the so-called Thriller in Manila, as argued in a new documentary of the same name, was marred by the racist antics and erratic behaviour of Ali, whose relentless abuse of Frazier became strangely obsessional and ultimately revealed the dark heart of a beloved sporting hero.
. . .
During Ali’s three-year ban from boxing because of his conscientious objection to the Vietnam War, it was Frazier who offered him support, financially and professionally (by appealing to boxing commissions to revoke their withdrawal of Ali’s licence). But after Ali’s return to the ring in 1970 the relationship soured, and by their third and final fight in Manila in October 1975 Ali’s traditional pre-fight antics had become ugly, obsessive (he stalked Frazier’s hotel even when the media weren’t around), and defined by sinister racist rhetoric — Ali’s team caricatured Frazier as a gorilla, wore gorilla T-shirts and regularly humiliated him in public, while Ali called him an “Uncle Tom”, a “flat-nose”, and implied that he was intellectually inferior.


“He’s the other type negro, he’s not like me!” Ali famously said, during his Parkinson interview in 1974, alluding to his status as a racially superior African American. “There are two types of slaves, and Joe Frazier is worse than you [pointing to Parky] to me!”

Sunni Khalid, an African American sports journalist, clarifies this in the movie. “An Uncle Tom is someone who is considered subservient to white people or the wishes of white people,” he says. “It is probably the greatest insult that one black man can call another.”

. . .
The smoking gun in the avalanche of racial abuse is a short interview that Ali gave to New Zealand television in 1975, just weeks before the fight. Here, as Ali espouses his strident racial beliefs (including a complete separation of the races), he boasts about attending a Ku Klux Klan rally. “It was a hell of a scene, all those white hoods, the bonfire, and me on the platform talking,” he begins, with something approaching pride. “I says: ‘Black people should marry their own women!’ I says: ‘Blue birds with blue birds, red birds with red birds, pigeons with pigeons, eagles with eagles! God didn’t make no mistake!’ And they say [imitates cheering]: ‘Yeahhhhh! Now you teach the rest of them niggers and everything’ll be all right!’ ”

In any context, this is a startling confession to come from an African-American, especially one, such as Ali, so frequently associated with the civil rights movement, and so unapologetically lionised in movies such as When We Were Kings and Michael Mann’s Ali. But in the context of the documentary it merely confirms the premise that history has got it wrong, that Ali is far from being The Greatest, and that perhaps the quiet “Smokin’ ” Joe Frazier was the real champ after all.

“When we found that piece of archive I was like: ‘This is f***ing nuts!’ ” says the Thriller in Manila director John Dower. “But I’ve always sensed that people would rather brush all the difficult stuff about Ali under the carpet because it doesn’t fit with the myth of the great freedom fighter of the 1960s.” Dower’s film explicitly turns its back on Ali who, unsurprisingly, did not want to take part in it (his agent and publicist were both approached for this article, but neither responded with comment). . . .
And yet one suspects that Ali’s multimillionaire demigod status must rankle, especially to a man such as Frazier, who is living out his retirement in a back room in his gym, in the badlands of North Philadelphia. Frazier’s manager, Les Wolff, certainly thinks so. “Ali has always been a huge marketing industry,” he says. “He was surrounded by highly professional marketing and PR people, while Joe was surrounded by family. I really believe that if Joe had been equally marketed, Ali would be in his shadows today.”
. . .
Ultimately, Dower says, what the movie does, and what the subsequent debate will hopefully engender, is a re-evaluation of Ali that might remove some of his stardust but will also, thankfully, return to him some of his complexity and conflicting humanity. “In a way, Ali’s been done a disservice recently by being turned into something benign,” he says, “whereas he’s a much more interesting character than that.”

Thriller in Manila is being screened at Sheffield Doc/Fest on Nov 5 and 8, and is on More4 on Nov 11 at 10pm

http://entertainment.timesonline.co.uk/ ... 039559.ece

Re: ALI DEPICTING JOE FRAZIER AS A "GORILLA"

Posted: 08 Mar 2010, 13:50
by ThatOne
The excitement displayed by this young boy is also seen in any appearance of Muhammad Ali worldwide. Ali was in London to attend the opening campaign point for Jubilee 2000, a worldwide coalition which aimed to cancel Third World debt by the end of the millennium. The audience was enthusiastic, as was the Jubilee coordinator, Kofi Mawuli, who remarked,

We are receiving Muhammad Ali in Brixton because of the enduring significance of his exemplary life. In particular, we find the symbolism of his giving up his slave name, Cassius Clay, to be a powerful example of how the chains of slavery can be shaken off by the will of the people. We expect his visit to inspire more people to follow his example by smashing the modern-day slave chains of debt.[71]

http://www.americansc.org.uk/Online/Ali.htm

Re: ALI DEPICTING JOE FRAZIER AS A "GORILLA"

Posted: 08 Mar 2010, 13:51
by granberry
ThatOne wrote:
I start precious few if any threads at all to laud Muhammad Ali.
TheOne is a bald-faced liar.

That's all he does is sell (very poorly and obviously) his god Ali.

The slighest glance at threads he has started shows the falseness of his statement.

Re: ALI DEPICTING JOE FRAZIER AS A "GORILLA"

Posted: 08 Mar 2010, 14:02
by ThatOne
granberry wrote:
ThatOne wrote:
I start precious few if any threads at all to laud Muhammad Ali.
TheOne is a bald-faced liar.

That's all he does is sell (very poorly and obviously) his god Ali.

The slighest glance at threads he has started shows the falseness of his statement.

"A good name is more desirable than great riches; to be esteemed is better than silver or gold."


Proverbs 22:1


You have to go back to December to see threads I started about the GOAT and then it was him in "fantasy matches"

If you were a man you would lay yourself prostrate beneath me and beg for my forgiveness for besmirching my good name but you won't because you aren't.


LOL

Re: ALI DEPICTING JOE FRAZIER AS A "GORILLA"

Posted: 08 Mar 2010, 14:17
by Collins2000
ThatOne wrote:
granberry wrote:Image

The VILENESS of this photo speaks for itself.

Why is Joe laughing and why did he autograph it ?
Because, unlike granberry, he knew it wasn't real.

Re: ALI DEPICTING JOE FRAZIER AS A "GORILLA"

Posted: 08 Mar 2010, 14:18
by granberry
SUNDANCE REVIEW: THRILLER IN MANILA
By Devin Faraci

http://www.chud.com/articles/articles/1 ... Page1.html


"There's more to the racial conflict than that, and I'm actually amazed that the movie doesn't try to make this more explicit. The Uncle Tom stuff was Ali's tactic before the first fight, but as they came to the third battle he began calling Frazier a gorilla, a term that would be incindiery if uttered by a white. The movie deals with the racial aspects of the gorilla taunting (Ali had gorilla dolls, gorilla shirts and even people in gorilla suits showing up to his trainings), but never makes note of the fact that Ali is lighter than Frazier. I'm obvioulsy not black (but I am Sicilian, so pretty close!) but even within the black community the shades of a person's blackness take on meaning. For a lighter skinned black man to call a darker skinned black man gorilla is pretty astonishing when viewed through that prism."