BoxRec

In the first Young-Lyle fight

the referee scored the ten rounds as 8 rounds for Young, 1 round for Lyle, and 1 round even.

One judge scored it 7 rounds for Young, 2 rounds for Lyle, and 1 round even

The other judge had it 6 rounds for Young, zero rounds for Lyle, and 4 rounds even.

Lyle was a good fighter who was able to overcome a big handicap of starting at a very late age for a boxer. He was able to outslug George Foreman and outbox Muhammad Ali for parts of their fight, which can only be seen as impressive. He was solid in all areas really, perhaps not outstanding in anything particular but overall a very good fighter. Strong, durable and powerful with some skills. He was good at countering off the ropes.

TheGreatA wrote:Lyle was a good fighter who was able to overcome a big handicap of starting at a very late age for a boxer. He was able to outslug George Foreman and outbox Muhammad Ali for parts of their fight, which can only be seen as impressive. He was solid in all areas really, perhaps not outstanding in anything particular but overall a very good fighter. Strong, durable and powerful with some skills. He was good at countering off the ropes.

Lyle was a good combination puncher.
He looked good against Shavers after being knocked down.
He was intimidated by fighting in NY City for the first time in his fight with Quarry. He fought like he was frozen.
In his fight with Foreman he was completely out of gas in the final round. His fight with Foireman was a psychological thing. He was not intimidated by Foreman and psychologically wanted to beat Foreman and thought he could. Completely different from the intimidated by the East Coast frame of mind he took into the Quarry fight.
Lyle was a dangerous opponent but Young had him totally figured out. He couldn't get a punch started against Young. Lyle had an impressive KO win over Larry Middleton. Middleton had a good chin and was very durable. I saw their second fight, where Lyle won a decision.

Yes Lyle did start late and still did well in his career. Ken Norton also started late.
Lyle was the better fighter of the two.

granberry wrote:Yes Lyle did start late and still did well in his career. Ken Norton also started late.
Lyle was the better fighter of the two.

Agreed.

Overrated or underrated compared to whom?

I only saw Lyle live, in the flesh, in his Oklahoma City fight with Lou Bailey. I had the pleasure to assist Bobby Lewis in Lyle's corner that night. It is still amazing to me that the cautious guy I saw against Bailey became a lion against George Foreman and Ernie Shavers.

The problem with Lyle in the Bailey fight was that his confidence was completely shot by his loss to Quarry. I remember Bobby Lewis begging him between rounds to "open up and get this guy out of here." Not counting the two or three times Bailey went down from getting hit in the balls (Lyle fouled him several times in the fight), Bailey was down five or six times legitimately, but Lyle couldn't (or wouldn't) follow up. In a way, it was surreal to watch.

And the plan wasn't to carry Bailey. Lyle's management asked Pat O'Grady, the Oklahoma City promoter, to specifically match him with Bailey, whom they expected Lyle to easily and quickly knockout. They hoped a quick KO would help restore his confidence.

I'll never forget the fans booing Lyle when the decision was announced for his uninspired performance and deliberate fouls.

Some folks I knew in Denver told me that that whole year after the Quarry fight was not a good one for Lyle. He did not look good in his fights against Peralta, Jimmy Ellis, or Bonavena. I don't know; I didn't see them. But that's what I was told, and the negative comments were consistent with the fighter I saw in Oklahoma City.

My opinion is that the guy was a bit oif a head case, and had some real confidence issues following the loss to Quarry. Maybe his confidence was restored a bit by his impressive performance against Ali, which, in turn, resulted in those crowd pleasers against Shavers and Foreman.

I read recently that Lyle now claims he was jobbed in the Quarry and Young fights, and had won 9 out of 10 rounds against Ali. Sounds like the guy is in serious denial. . .

Jimmy Young vrs Ron Lyle II was televised on ABC.
Has anyone seen Ron Lyle vrs Kevin Isaac from Utica NY Sept 1976?
It was also nationaly televised with co-feature Jimmy Young vrs Mike Boswell.

granberry wrote:

Goodnight, Irene wrote:

granberry wrote:Jimmy Young handled Lyle eaisly--TWICE.

Is this knocking Lyle, or selling Young?

Young beat Lyle easily twice.

In the ring.

Has nothing to do with knocking or selling.

What are YOU selling, Irene?

Poison?

Welcome back, Francis

Gerry Cooney beat Jimmy Young asily. Cutting him up horribly.

He also broke Lyle's ribs

The clueless swallow sham fights as legitimate.

granberry wrote:The clueless swallow sham fights as legitimate.

You ever going to explain how Cooney vs Young was a sham?

Why would Young stand around and get his face slashed up by a huge puncher?

The clueless swallow sham fights as legitimate.

And then they post breathlessly about them on sites like this.

I see the moderators removed my post asking for civility. The petty bickering is annoying and distracts from the whole boxrec experience.

ThatOne wrote:I see the moderators removed my post asking for civility. The petty bickering is annoying and distracts from the whole boxrec experience.

Francis has went on record numerous times saying that Cooney vs Young was a work.

Asking him how this was is not bickering. I seriously want to know how that fight was fixed.

ebeneezer wrote:

ThatOne wrote:I see the moderators removed my post asking for civility. The petty bickering is annoying and distracts from the whole boxrec experience.

Francis has went on record numerous times saying that Cooney vs Young was a work.

Asking him how this was is not bickering. I seriously want to know how that fight was fixed.

My comments weren't directed to anybody in particular. Jimmy Young's problem was he blocked Cooney's thuderous punches with his face.

I follow American football, basketball as well as boxing. In every sport there are fans that complain the sport is fixed or at not completely on the up and up. If one feels that way why do they watch?

The clueless swallow sham presentations as if they are real.

That is because they are not versed in the subject.

granberry wrote:The clueless swallow sham presentations as if they are real.

That is because they are not versed in the subject.

Ok then, enlighten us.
Explain how Cooney vs Young was a sham?

Why would Young stand around and get his face slashed up by a huge puncher?

In his stalking of a certain poster, ebeneezer has failed to notice that this thread is about Ron Lyle.

Stick to the topic girls, or I'll lock it again & it'll stay locked.
Cheers

raylawpc wrote:Overrated or underrated compared to whom?

I only saw Lyle live, in the flesh, in his Oklahoma City fight with Lou Bailey. I had the pleasure to assist Bobby Lewis in Lyle's corner that night. It is still amazing to me that the cautious guy I saw against Bailey became a lion against George Foreman and Ernie Shavers.

The problem with Lyle in the Bailey fight was that his confidence was completely shot by his loss to Quarry. I remember Bobby Lewis begging him between rounds to "open up and get this guy out of here." Not counting the two or three times Bailey went down from getting hit in the balls (Lyle fouled him several times in the fight), Bailey was down five or six times legitimately, but Lyle couldn't (or wouldn't) follow up. In a way, it was surreal to watch.

And the plan wasn't to carry Bailey. Lyle's management asked Pat O'Grady, the Oklahoma City promoter, to specifically match him with Bailey, whom they expected Lyle to easily and quickly knockout. They hoped a quick KO would help restore his confidence.

I'll never forget the fans booing Lyle when the decision was announced for his uninspired performance and deliberate fouls.

Some folks I knew in Denver told me that that whole year after the Quarry fight was not a good one for Lyle. He did not look good in his fights against Peralta, Jimmy Ellis, or Bonavena. I don't know; I didn't see them. But that's what I was told, and the negative comments were consistent with the fighter I saw in Oklahoma City.

My opinion is that the guy was a bit oif a head case, and had some real confidence issues following the loss to Quarry. Maybe his confidence was restored a bit by his impressive performance against Ali, which, in turn, resulted in those crowd pleasers against Shavers and Foreman.

I read recently that Lyle now claims he was jobbed in the Quarry and Young fights, and had won 9 out of 10 rounds against Ali. Sounds like the guy is in serious denial. . .

I think you're dead on about his lack of confidence. Lyle had basically the same assets as Foreman, but lacked the confidence and will to win that drove George. In both the Shavers and Foreman fights, Lyle had to fight, and once he caught George with that LH at the end of the 2nd, he awoke George and the fight was on. Shavers also fought his usual seek and destroy, pressing Lyle from the outset and making him fight a war. Had Lyle fought Norton, Kenny would have been his usual self and he would have attempted to push Lyle back, making Lyle fight. And most likely Norton would have started dropping in the same manner that he did against Shavers and Foreman.

I thought Lyle's fight against Bugner was an eye opener, because Lyle ended up pressing the fight in the secod half and was able to over come an early lead from Bugner. It almost seemed out of character for Ron.

A prison mentality is something one cannot understand unless you have been one yourself or have had considerable contact with someone who has served long prison time.

Despite any surface indications to the contrary, there is a strong feeling of being not part of 'society' and a great wish to be accepted by regular 'society.'

As a result such people can be manipulated by scum who know of this mindset.

When Lyle fought in the East coast and in Madison Square Garden for the first time (against Quarry) he was totally intimidated by the idea of the "big time," New York, and Madison Square Garden. He fought like he was frozen, stiff, and totally intimidated.

Not by Quarry, but by the situation.

A comment Lyle made after the Quarry fight showed me how messed up he was.
He said something to the effect that he would like to "have lunch" with Quarry.

That's what people do in 'proper' society, or so he thought, and that indicated his state of mind.

If I had known he wanted to "have lunch" with Quarry, I would never have watched the fight.

I have never seen a fighter more frozen and stiff than Lyle was against Quarry.
He fought like he felt he was a second class citizen and didn't really belong there.

Brutu wrote:Ron Lyle's amateur record was 29 fights.(25 wins and 4 losses all by decision).
That doesnt include the 20 or 25 bouts he had while in the Colorado State Pennitentary.

Brutu, Lyle said in an interview on the sweet science website that "We didn't get to fight much [in prison], I think I had like fourteen or fifteen fights. They brought in some guys from the Army sometimes to box but it was very limited." Of course, this is the guy who said later in the interview that he was jobbed in the Quarry and Young fights, and beat Ali in ten out of 11 rounds, so who knows . . .

The entire interview is here:

http://www.thesweetscience.com/boxing-a ... -ron-lyle/

BHop spent time in prison too. I wonder why his psyche wasn't affected. Ditto for Don King...For all their flaws they didn't crave affection from their opponents in the ring and in business.

raylawpc wrote:

Brutu wrote:Ron Lyle's amateur record was 29 fights.(25 wins and 4 losses all by decision).
That doesnt include the 20 or 25 bouts he had while in the Colorado State Pennitentary.

Brutu, Lyle said in an interview on the sweet science website that "We didn't get to fight much [in prison], I think I had like fourteen or fifteen fights. They brought in some guys from the Army sometimes to box but it was very limited." Of course, this is the guy who said later in the interview that he was jobbed in the Quarry and Young fights, and beat Ali in ten out of 11 rounds, so who knows . . .

The entire interview is here:

http://www.thesweetscience.com/boxing-a ... -ron-lyle/

At the website they say there were twenty unanswered blows in the 11th round. I count 47 but don't take my word for it:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UgmaMkSv ... re=related

BTW- A lot of fighters would have "killed" Lyle in that situation. Ali definitely let off at the end.

I had heard sometime ago that Ron Lyle was working on his autobiography.
Anyone here know with whom he is writing it and from which publisher?

The ending of the Lyle-Ali fight was a farce.

The ref stopping a title fight with no knockdown?
And in a fight where Lyle had won most of the rounds since Ali did nothing but rest in a corner and throw no punches.

As cornerman Chickie Ferrara said, "It wasn't kosher."

And Chickie Ferrara was not talking about the hot dogs they were selling at ringside.