BoxRec

Goodnight, Irene wrote:I guess no one knows when staredowns began.

My guess is Cassius Clay vs Sonny liston and it was Ali who intitiated it.

Brutu wrote:

Goodnight, Irene wrote:I guess no one knows when staredowns began.

My guess is Cassius Clay vs Sonny liston and it was Ali who intitiated it.

A lot of the repugnant unsportsmanlike conduct that is now so common in boxing was started by Clay.

Liston stared Patterson down I beleive, I think staredowns have always been in fights it's a basic animal instinct for intimidation

p4p1 wrote:Liston stared Patterson down I beleive, I think staredowns have always been in fights it's a basic animal instinct for intimidation

No, I don't think so. Most boxers were honorable sportsmen in the old days, at least they made a show of it.

But maybe I'm talking about the wrong thing here. I guess staredowns are a different thing from mocking a fallen opponent, etc.

p4p1 wrote:Liston stared Patterson down I beleive, I think staredowns have always been in fights it's a basic animal instinct for intimidation

It's interesting to note that Liston at 6'and 215-18 would seem like a little feller in the ring with the modern super-heavyweights. His final fight was with Chuck Wepner who I used to see around and know peripherally.

x2x wrote:

p4p1 wrote:Liston stared Patterson down I beleive, I think staredowns have always been in fights it's a basic animal instinct for intimidation

No, I don't think so. Most boxers were honorable sportsmen in the old days, at least they made a show of it.

But maybe I'm talking about the wrong thing here. I guess staredowns are a different thing from mocking a fallen opponent, etc.

yeh mate i think even with honorable sportsmen a stare down is a great way to intimidate someone if it works and it is different from mocking someone as i said its a pretty primal instict to get crazy eyes and stare someone down

x2x wrote:

p4p1 wrote:Liston stared Patterson down I beleive, I think staredowns have always been in fights it's a basic animal instinct for intimidation

It's interesting to note that Liston at 6'and 215-18 would seem like a little feller in the ring with the modern super-heavyweights. His final fight was with Chuck Wepner who I used to see around and know peripherally.

He wouldn't be little in terms of reach --- just one of several reasons he would plough his way through anyone running about today.

& Vitali's peak is long gone, too.

BarryWashington wrote:

Goodnight, Irene wrote:

x2x wrote:

It's interesting to note that Liston at 6'and 215-18 would seem like a little feller in the ring with the modern super-heavyweights. His final fight was with Chuck Wepner who I used to see around and know peripherally.

He wouldn't be little in terms of reach --- just one of several reasons he would plough his way through anyone running about today.

I can't imagine Sonny Liston against the HWs of today. Holy shit. Talk about a massacre. I'd give a peak Vitali some what of a chance (some thing like 10-15%), but, outside of that, Sonny would destroy them all. He'd probably get bored and may be even try out MMA. Ha, who knows.

Massacre all right - but the exact reverse of what you fantasize. Liston would be like boy against man vs. either one of the Klitschkos, a little punching bag, that's all; same with Clay except he'd be able to run away for a few rounds before getting KO'd.

Constant litany from the controlled US media, constantly parroted on these boxing forums, notwithstanding, the heavyweight div. today is far better, and bigger and stronger, and better trained, and far more international in scope, than ever before. Why, Russian and eastern Europeans were not even competing until the 1990's. They are now, and the results are obvious. Cuban expats and black Africans, too.

As for killer stares, I think that's my strongest suit. Why, I even scare myself when I look into my eyes in the mirror. Who the hell is that nutbag psycho looking back at me, and why is he loose on the streets anyway!?

Goodnight, Irene wrote:& Vitali's peak is long gone, too.

And that statement is based upon what evidence, his last fight, rather massacre of Briggs?

x2x wrote:

BarryWashington wrote:

Goodnight, Irene wrote: He wouldn't be little in terms of reach --- just one of several reasons he would plough his way through anyone running about today.

I can't imagine Sonny Liston against the HWs of today. Holy shit. Talk about a massacre. I'd give a peak Vitali some what of a chance (some thing like 10-15%), but, outside of that, Sonny would destroy them all. He'd probably get bored and may be even try out MMA. Ha, who knows.

Massacre all right - but the exact reverse of what you fantasize. Liston would be like boy against man vs. either one of the Klitschkos, a little punching bag, that's all; same with Clay except he'd be able to run away for a few rounds before getting KO'd.

Constant litany from the controlled US media, constantly parroted on these boxing forums, notwithstanding, the heavyweight div. today is far better, and bigger and stronger, and better trained, and far more international in scope, than ever before. Why, Russian and eastern Europeans were not even competing until the 1990's. They are now, and the results are obvious. Cuban expats and black Africans, too.

As for killer stares, I think that's my strongest suit. Why, I even scare myself when I look into my eyes in the mirror. Who the hell is that nutbag psycho looking back at me, and why is he loose on the streets anyway!?

You forgot to mention that Lewis and Ali had glass embedded in their gloves V Klitschko and Cooper respectively D

x2x wrote:

BarryWashington wrote:

Goodnight, Irene wrote: He wouldn't be little in terms of reach --- just one of several reasons he would plough his way through anyone running about today.

I can't imagine Sonny Liston against the HWs of today. Holy shit. Talk about a massacre. I'd give a peak Vitali some what of a chance (some thing like 10-15%), but, outside of that, Sonny would destroy them all. He'd probably get bored and may be even try out MMA. Ha, who knows.

Massacre all right - but the exact reverse of what you fantasize. Liston would be like boy against man vs. either one of the Klitschkos, a little punching bag, that's all; same with Clay except he'd be able to run away for a few rounds before getting KO'd.

Constant litany from the controlled US media, constantly parroted on these boxing forums, notwithstanding, the heavyweight div. today is far better, and bigger and stronger, and better trained, and far more international in scope, than ever before. Why, Russian and eastern Europeans were not even competing until the 1990's. They are now, and the results are obvious. Cuban expats and black Africans, too.

As for killer stares, I think that's my strongest suit. Why, I even scare myself when I look into my eyes in the mirror. Who the hell is that nutbag psycho looking back at me, and why is he loose on the streets anyway!?

Well, we agree on the important issue --- based on this post, I agree you are certainly some kind of deranged lunatic

x2x wrote:

Goodnight, Irene wrote:& Vitali's peak is long gone, too.

And that statement is based upon what evidence, his last fight, rather massacre of Briggs?

If you had any sense, you'd see that arguing Klitschko is in his prime now is to his detriment. Failing to put away a 300-year-old Briggs in your prime? LOL

Foreman vs Lyle had an epic stare down... that preceded an epic fight.
As far as Sonny Liston, I think posters here, as per usual, are overrating fighters of the past. That being said, neither of the Klitschko's have faced a shorter fighter with the skill set to go with the KO power like Sonny Liston. He would definitely have a height disadvantage, but his reach was actually about the same. It's very difficult to determine... . I think I'd favor him a little over Wlad, but I'd favor Vitali a little over Sonny.
In Sonny's day, it was much harder to get an opportunity to fight for a title, he really cleaned out the division before fighting Patterson. Whereas Wlad won a title, and then cleaned it out.

You forgot to mention that Lewis and Ali had glass embedded in their gloves V Klitschko and Cooper respectively D

Don't know if it was glass, but it could well have been something, hey, giggles? Angelo Dundee has admitted fixing Clay's gloves between rounds, cutting it - and then I saw a video of that fight on ESPN - and you know what they did? They spliced together the rounds and never even mentioned the slicing of the glove to give Clay a long rest between rounds. Not one single word about it. Deliberate deception, just like everything else on tv. And why haven't the record books been corrected to show that Copper won that first fight, which he did because Clay was admittedly cheating to gain extra time to recover between rounds?

As for Vitali vs. Lewis, like Wlad was saying right after the fight, what was on Lewis' gloves or in the lacing? Who inspects gloves nowadays? The ref doesn't. The opposing side doesn't. And like Wlad said, Vitali had never even been cut at all in his life, in kickboxing or boxing, before that fight.

Looks like there's a spillover from the basic boxing forum mentally retarded crowd on to here.

The black fighter or his camp always seems to be the culprit, never the white guy. hmmmm

You remind me of a poster from a couple of other forums. ....you're not a W C Fields fan by any chance are you?

bollox wrote:The black fighter or his camp always seems to be the culprit, never the white guy. hmmmm

You remind me of a poster from a couple of other forums. ....you're not a W C Fields fan by any chance are you?

You remind me of 90% of the posters on these stupid boxing forums. As for black vs. white, it is quite obvious where you and some of your pals here are coming from. I don't see any of you going on about how Ingemar Johanssen, Jerry Coetzee, Dempsey, Marciano, etc. would easily beat up on the modern heavies - not to mention the ebonic language insults (I guess that's what they are ...they need translation), like this:

"You sure are one high-larry-us fornicator wit dat der post! (Sad thing is I can imagine some one in CS standing by those statements regarding Liston/Clay & The Special K bros)."

Yeah das raht!

Anyway, the salient points I made above, such as no Russians/Eastern Europeans in boxing until the '90's, are ignored in favor of infantile baiting like yours, and giggling icons.

These boxing forums are a waste of time. I thought this Boxers Of The Past one might be a bit better.

And yeah, I'm f'ing ugly, and I've got a scary stare down, but how many of you have actually fought? I sure have. Have you, Bollox (appropriate name!). I mean aside from pretend fights with your pillow or baby brother.

I read sometime ago that the first stare down of note was started by Jack Sharkey when he fought Jack Dempsey. They say that Dempsey was confused by it and asked his trainer "What the hells wrong with that guy?!"

Don't know if it was glass, but it could well have been something, hey, giggles? Angelo Dundee has admitted fixing Clay's gloves between rounds, cutting it - and then I saw a video of that fight on ESPN - and you know what they did? They spliced together the rounds and never even mentioned the slicing of the glove to give Clay a long rest between rounds. Not one single word about it. Deliberate deception, just like everything else on tv. And why haven't the record books been corrected to show that Copper won that first fight, which he did because Clay was admittedly cheating to gain extra time to recover between rounds?

If some numbskull made a fight tape and left out the torn glove incident then they're obviously doing the history revision thing. Every man and his dog knows what happened....Angelo Dundee stuck his finger inside an already torn glove and making it worse. So how long was the rest period between rounds???

As for Vitali vs. Lewis, like Wlad was saying right after the fight, what was on Lewis' gloves or in the lacing? Who inspects gloves nowadays? The ref doesn't. The opposing side doesn't. And like Wlad said, Vitali had never even been cut at all in his life, in kickboxing or boxing, before that fight.

Do you reckon Vlad can be trusted to not be biased where his own brother is concerned? He'd just been stopped by a bad cut inflicted by Lennox Lewis' gloves, not anything that was on the gloves. Vlad wasn't in the ring, Vitali was. Has Vitali ever clamied Lewis did anything other than inflict a cut via illegal means? Nope

You remind me of 90% of the posters on these stupid boxing forums. As for black vs. white, it is quite obvious where you and some of your pals here are coming from. I don't see any of you going on about how Ingemar Johanssen, Jerry Coetzee, Dempsey, Marciano, etc. would easily beat up on the modern heavies - not to mention the ebonic language insults (I guess that's what they are ...they need translation), like this:

Yes these guys would probably have cleaned up with the exception of Coetzee. But I also think Jack Johnson, Joe Louis, Joe Walcott, Ezzard Charles, Sonny Liston, Joe Frazier etc etc would have also cleaned them up

Anyway, the salient points I made above, such as no Russians/Eastern Europeans in boxing until the '90's, are ignored in favor of infantile baiting like yours, and giggling icons.

So is this some sort of conspiracy and if so, by whom. And why?

And yeah, I'm f'ing ugly, and I've got a scary stare down, but how many of you have actually fought? I sure have. Have you, Bollox (appropriate name!). I mean aside from pretend fights with your pillow or baby brother

If you've fought....so what? That doesn't qualify you any more than anyone else to discuss boxing with any degree of authority. Maybe you took too many punches in your career because in the first paragraph you've mysteriously left out some of the best HW's in history

x2x wrote:

Brutu wrote:

Goodnight, Irene wrote:I guess no one knows when staredowns began.

My guess is Cassius Clay vs Sonny liston and it was Ali who intitiated it.

A lot of the repugnant unsportsmanlike conduct that is now so common in boxing was started by Clay.

x2x wrote:Massacre all right - but the exact reverse of what you fantasize. Liston would be like boy against man vs. either one of the Klitschkos, a little punching bag, that's all; same with Clay except he'd be able to run away for a few rounds before getting KO'd.

Right on, brother.

Dem boys got no chance!

Mark Kaylor was good at the stare downs

Mike Tyson vs anybody. Mike just looked so mean and pissed. Plus he was built like a beast. No one looks as ferocious as him throwing a punch.

yancey wrote:Don't know when it began. (Liston, perhaps?)

Leonard-Benitez was a damn good stare down.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MvSmZepzK1I

wow.