BoxRec

id imagine 95% of people will say leonard , a fighter isnt truly appreciated till after theyve retired .
ask this question in 15 years , maybe will be a more accurate.

Leonard, but he would have wanted every edge in the world.

Leonard? Prime versions of Oscar De La Hoya, Shane Mosley and possibly Trinidad, would all beat Floyd at welter, let alone the fab 4.

Loynesy wrote: sub 160 he is easily the best since Leonard.

Loynesy

I think that's harsh on several other contenders for this mythical title:
Chavez in his prime was an awesome force
Lopez was unbeatable at Straw-weight
And Whittaker is criminally overlooked even by hardcore fans - he was right up there with Floyd in the boxing guile stakes

Deserter wrote:

Loynesy wrote: sub 160 he is easily the best since Leonard.

Loynesy

I think that's harsh on several other contenders for this mythical title:
Chavez in his prime was an awesome force
Lopez was unbeatable at Straw-weight
And Whittaker is criminally overlooked even by hardcore fans - he was right up there with Floyd in the boxing guile stakes

yeh lopez was amazing

SUB 160 SINCE LENOARD.............. who could be compared to Floyd Mayweather ?

Terry Norris
Julio Cesar Chavez - amazing record
Perenell Whitaker
Young Prime Oscar De La Hoya
Mike McCallum
Ricardo Lopez
Felix Trinidad @ Welterweight and Light Middle - went 40-0 til beaten by Popkins at 160LBS
Thomas Hearns
Ike Quartey was a beast and would be a tough tough fight for Floyd
Manny Pacquaio -
Roberto Duran
Salvador Sanchez

Peak Don Curry

DIRT SUGAR wrote:Peak Don Curry

Yeah - fighter who trained in my back garden boxing shed fought a peak Don Curry - his last pro fight ever

Curry was very economical - never wasted a punch

Unlike someone like Joe Calzaghe who just slaps a hundred times a round.

DIRT SUGAR wrote:Peak Don Curry

Among my favourite ever - just gutting his peak was so brief. I genuinely can't think of a steeper or more rapid decline off the top of my head than Curry's. Around the time he beat McCrory he just looked like a legend in the making.

What odds was Honeyghan to beat Curry ?

FLINT ISLAND wrote:

DIRT SUGAR wrote:Peak Don Curry

Yeah - fighter who trained in my back garden boxing shed fought a peak Don Curry - his last pro fight ever

That'll be Colin Jones. Good fighter, gave Milton McCrory two really hard fights. Curry cut him to bits in four rounds in Birmingham in around 85. He then brutalized McCrory in two rounds and think after another defence that was it as he ran into a certain Lloyd Honeyghan... not a good time to be weight-drained as Honeyghan was on a roll.

At his best Curry was a beautiful boxer. Like Mayweather very well schooled, very accurate, unlike Floyd (at welter), he could bang a bit.

Deserter wrote:

DIRT SUGAR wrote:Peak Don Curry

Among my favourite ever - just gutting his peak was so brief. I genuinely can't think of a steeper or more rapid decline off the top of my head than Curry's. Around the time he beat McCrory he just looked like a legend in the making.

Yeah, Tyson's decline - whilst he hung around for another 15 years was also rapid..... but Curry was even more rapid.

Still after Honeyghun he went on to win the Light Middleweight championship twice and fight for the Middleweight title (winning an eliminator) but that fight with Michael Nunn was especially sad.

Just such a massive shame he never joined the fab four.... why didn't he ever sign to fight Hearns?

FLINT ISLAND wrote:

DIRT SUGAR wrote:Peak Don Curry

Yeah - fighter who trained in my back garden boxing shed fought a peak Don Curry - his last pro fight ever

would have thought the weight difference between enzo and don would be too much.
And don is an old man now too. still give him a chance tho.

FLINT ISLAND wrote:What odds was Honeyghan to beat Curry ?

You could get 5/1 on Honeyghan on the night. Honeyghan laid five thousand dollars on himself.

A fighter's legacy is built around wins over his peers at or around their respective peaks, not faded greats. Wins over De La Hoya and Mosley, while far from being meaningless, are equatable to De La Hoya's wins over the likes of JCC/Whitaker or Calzaghe's over Eubank/Hokpins/Jones jr.

If you cannot say with any certainty that Mayweather would've beaten those men at their peaks, then how on earth could you put him on anywhere near the same plane as welter Leonard or Hearns. Wins over Judah and Hatton at that weight certainly don't cut it. The only thing preventing this thread from being laughable is the nature of the wins, the obvious skill employed in attaining those victories.

A more appropriate thread title would've been 'Floyd Mayweather and Manny Pacquiao V Roberto Duran and Aaron Pryor at 135-140lb'.

Charlie I think your analogies are not quite accurate, some are, some are not.

DLH and Mosley both (argueably) put in career best displays in fights previously, both were champions in their weight division, both argueably the #1 fighter in their weight devision at the time of the fights.

I think it is fair to compare with with DLH vs Whittikar, DLH vs Chavez - well Chavez was #1 but hadn't looked like the legend of old for some time. Whittikar (like Mosley and DLH at the time of the Mayweather fight) was high in the P4P rankings.... Chavez was probably too long in the tooth to make the upper echelons of the top ten P4P rankings.

Calzaghe vs Euabank??? Come on.... Chris wasn't in any of these fighters mentioned league.

Calzaghe vs Hopkins - Yeah.... I can see that analogy working.

Calzaghe vs Jones Jnr - No.... Jones hadn't been a champion for a while and was looking shot for years. You cannot really compare his win over Trinidad with the performance of Mosley vs Margarito and DLH vs Mayorga.

You can only see that with the predictions of Calzaghe vs Jones - did ANYONE give Jones a chance? Plenty gave DLH and Mosley vs Floyd.

Another one who it is comparable to - is Hatton vs Kostya.

stujones wrote:Charlie I think your analogies are not quite accurate, some are, some are not.

DLH and Mosley both (argueably) put in career best displays in fights previously, both were champions in their weight division, both argueably the #1 fighter in their weight devision at the time of the fights.

I think it is fair to compare with with DLH vs Whittikar, DLH vs Chavez - well Chavez was #1 but hadn't looked like the legend of old for some time. Whittikar (like Mosley and DLH at the time of the Mayweather fight) was high in the P4P rankings.... Chavez was probably too long in the tooth to make the upper echelons of the top ten P4P rankings.

Calzaghe vs Euabank??? Come on.... Chris wasn't in any of these fighters mentioned league.

Calzaghe vs Hopkins - Yeah.... I can see that analogy working.

Calzaghe vs Jones Jnr - No.... Jones hadn't been a champion for a while and was looking shot for years. You cannot really compare his win over Trinidad with the performance of Mosley vs Margarito and DLH vs Mayorga.

You can only see that with the predictions of Calzaghe vs Jones - did ANYONE give Jones a chance? Plenty gave DLH and Mosley vs Floyd.

Another one who it is comparable to - is Hatton vs Kostya.

Sorry, think you're onto a losing argument if you're impying that wins over Mayorga and Margarito meant the clock had been turned back for either De La Hoya or Mosely, for a multitude of reasons.

Eubank wasn't in any of these fighters leagues? Neither was Calzaghe, arguably, for the same reasons I'm not crediting Mayweather full due for his wins over faded greats.

Did anyone give Jones a chance? I picked him.

The only concession I'll make is that Jones jr was in a lot worse shape comparatively than Mosely or De La Hoya, but the principle remains solid.

The argument that De La Hoya or Mosely were anywhere near prime when they faced Mayweather is folly. Go back and rewatch Mosley/De La Hoya I or De La Hoya/Quartey and compare those incarnations with any of their fights from even 5 years ago, onwards! The only performances that could be described as sharp came against men who were stylistically made for them, in Shane's case that fighter had been found to be a cheat and had the plaster removed from his gloves right before the fight!

I'm sure I'm not telling you anything you're not already well aware of, but some seem to be very willing to make concessions where concessions ought not be made, especially if you're going to make a leap to the level of a Leonard or Hearns.

Edit: Sorry, that seemed overly defensive and you may not have been implying Mosley/De La Hoya weren't faded, if that's the case, don't take offense!

I think that sugar ray would stop him,he was a hurtfull puncher and very skillfull,he wouldn't get pushed around by mayweather,like duran did in their 1st fight,and he wouldn't be outreached like hearns did in their 1st fight

I think Floyd would find it harder to beat Hearns than Leonard. I think Hearns was an even better boxer than Leonard, he was just more vulnerable. I think both would have beaten Floyd though.

I think it's amazing how a guy can beat a career featherweight & then a bloke who's pushing forty & hasn't been in the ring for over a year, & be anointed as GOAT (kindly check out WildWaylon's thread which went up the moment FMJ beat JMM, & some of the more credulous threads in the Current Scene this weekend).

It boggles what's left of my mind.

Hearns & Leonard would be tried for manslaughter had they fought Mayweather, which they never would be able to anyway, because Floyd would tell us that Hearns "must be on HGH! Otherwise, how come he so tall? I'm just trying to clean up boxing!" & Mayweather & Leonard would endeavour to negotiate & mindfvck for about a decade before actually getting in the ring.

The argument that De La Hoya or Mosely were anywhere near prime when they faced Mayweather is folly. Go back and rewatch Mosley/De La Hoya I or De La Hoya/Quartey and compare those incarnations with any of their fights from even 5 years ago, onwards! The only performances that could be described as sharp came against men who were stylistically made for them, in Shane's case that fighter had been found to be a cheat and had the plaster removed from his gloves right before the fight!

I'm sure I'm not telling you anything you're not already well aware of, but some seem to be very willing to make concessions where concessions ought not be made, especially if you're going to make a leap to the level of a Leonard or Hearns.

& whilst I agree completely with this, & think it should be tattooed across some people's foreheads so that they can see it when they look in the mirror, I think the thing to take away from this weekend is the amount hype rearranges the brain of the average hardcore boxing fanatic. We see DLH beat up Mayorga -- "OMG OSCAR'S BACK!!!111 WAR OSCAR!!!!" Rinse & repeat for Tito, SSM, all without someone going "Hang on just a minute..."

Robinson wins in 8

gobbles wrote:Robinson wins in 8

robinson

I think Mayweather is a phenomenal fighter who could hang with the best in any era, no question. I don't think it's easy to say who would win this one but I would lean marginally towards Leonard just because he beat a much higher calibre of opponent in his career and had the speed and power to really hurt Floyd. It would be a fascinating fight though.

Deserter wrote:

DIRT SUGAR wrote:Peak Don Curry

Among my favourite ever - just gutting his peak was so brief. I genuinely can't think of a steeper or more rapid decline off the top of my head than Curry's. Around the time he beat McCrory he just looked like a legend in the making.

I agree.

Around about this time, I was starting to think that Donald Curry might just turn out to be the greatest welterweight that ever lived!

How wrong I was!!!