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Re: froch hits out at hennesey!
Posted: 25 May 2010, 16:18
by Spud
I stand by Hennessy on this issue - there is more to this than meets the eye!!!
Re: froch hits out at hennesey!
Posted: 25 May 2010, 17:11
by whiskey
states wrote:G0mez wrote:
It's the scores that irked him... Tilleman gave him 1 round out of the first 10... then the last 2 rounds, where the other judges gave them last 2 rounds to Kessler, yet Tilleman gave them to Carl... obviously concerned his bias will be too visible.
Is that right? I thought Tilleman's score was wide, but just about feasible. Scoring it that way is outright terrible though. That sounds an awful like what happened in the Reid-Ottke fight, in terms of scoring. (I know Tilleman was the ref that night, before anyone mentions it).
What people fail to realise and has not been mentioned so far either, is that if fighters are level on points - they decide who goes through based on the number of rounds won.
So Tilleman could screw Froch over even more if he's level on points with another fighter.
Re: froch hits out at hennesey!
Posted: 25 May 2010, 17:45
by dbf
Carl has a point about Mick saying the deal was done when in reality it was just a verbal agreement, so thats a bit of an error on Micks part.
However, it wasn't Hennessey's fault Froch couldn't keep his hands up and can't throw a left hook. If Carl wants to look for excuses etc, he may do well to look at his coach and also his own apparent lack of technical abilities.
Re: froch hits out at hennesey!
Posted: 25 May 2010, 17:57
by states
dbf wrote:Carl has a point about Mick saying the deal was done when in reality it was just a verbal agreement, so thats a bit of an error on Micks part.
Is it though? Like Stu says, a few posts up, it seemed to be pretty common knowledge that Froch was going to have to travel for Abraham. I certainly thought that was the case when the Super 6 was announced.
Now, if you want to criticise Mick, perhaps he should have been more forceful at the start, and said that as his guy was one of the 2 belt holders in the tournament then maybe Ward, a relative novice, should have to travel at least once. Probably not feasible with Showtime calling the shots, and Mick having no backing besides them, I expect.
The fact is though, the cards have been dealt. Froch just has to go out and do the business. Right now, he should focus on that.
Re: froch hits out at hennesey!
Posted: 25 May 2010, 18:05
by stujones
The froch vs Kessler fight was tough to score IMO. Despite many disagreeing with my take on Froch vs Dirrell - I don't feel I have anything personal or "anti" Froch with my scoring. I do want him to do well, and I scored the Pascal fight wide in his favour.
I thought my card of Kessler by 2 was being as fair to Froch as possible... alot of the Froch rounds were close. I can see a sense in Tillerman's card when I saw a breakdown. I have no qualms with it - even though I disagree - I don't think there was really one round that was 100% universal for Froch that Tillerman scored for Kessler.
Re: froch hits out at hennesey!
Posted: 25 May 2010, 18:27
by states
Yeah, I probably need to watch Froch-Kessler again and re-score it. Thing is, whilst I had it a close fight (which Kessler clearly won), I cannot remember Kessler winning 9 out of 10 of the first rounds, close as they were, no matter how I scored it. It is all interpretation though, so maybe I'm being harsh on Tilleman.
Re: froch hits out at hennesey!
Posted: 26 May 2010, 10:40
by Autobarn
stujones wrote:Please Please Please Autobarn, watch the fight with the sound down and count how many times in each round Dirrell was on the back foot running. Seriously, you'll be surprised.... for large periods on the fight it was Dirrell doing more, on the front foot throwing, admittedly, non-hard jab (but landing, scoring shots) and Froch did nothing but look for the counter. Even when Froch put on the pressure, Dirrell was outboxing him with the jab. He was backing Froch up, alot more than Froch backed him up..... seriously, watch the fight again.
I agree, Dirrell might have lost a couple of rounds solely on being negative... but a couple of rounds doesn't make a fight.
I do actually agree with Froch, had that Kessler vs Froch fight taken place in Nottingham, Froch might have got the decision.... sadly though, that just says alot about us. I actually think the Kessler vs Froch fight was closer than Dirrell vs Froch.
Froch lost both in my eyes.... Kessler fight by 2, Dirrell fight by at least 4.
i watched it the week after the fight on itv4 replay, and i was flabbergasted at comments on here defending andre dirrell. he kept falling over, holding, and IMO he was also pulling his punches so that he could run away quicker. it's annoying that no one gave froch credit when he was landing jabs in that weird fencing style, all night. it was close, but dirrell got penalised so i don't see what ppl have to moan about. it's hard to cry for dirrell, because you make your own luck and dirrell was not assertive enough.
Re: froch hits out at hennesey!
Posted: 27 May 2010, 03:28
by ArtOfWar
martin_g91 wrote:ArtOfWar wrote:martin_g91 wrote:I think it's a bit of both.
Froch is gutted because he got beat. But he got beat fair and square (I said he would on here before when prople were talking about Froch/Calzaghe). After a loss there is always a promoter or trainer or cat or goldfish to blame.
At the same time, Hennesey may be a promoter out of his depth a little with this tournament. But if so, only a little. Gary Shaw aint worth a light and Dan Goosen is a joke but to be fair, ther Germans know what they are doing. That said he aint locking horns with King or Warren so he probably should have done a bit better by Froch.
The truth is, whichever way you slice it, (and seriously, I'm not saying I told you so) Froch was never going to beat Kessler. And that is nobady's fault, thats just boxing.
Gary Shaw is an excellent promoter from a fans point of view. He more than anyone is willing to make fights the fans want to see and doesn't baby any of his fighters.
Froch is pi$$ed off and feeling the pressure in my opinion. He thinks he won his last fight even though he clearly didn't and now he might have to go to Germany and face a guy he's very unlikely to knock out. That means he's got to clearly win on the scorecards, because he probably won't get any favours.
Not a good situation to be in, especially when he was led to believe he'd be fighting at home for sure. Andre Ward is the one who has got things easy here. All his fights will be at home, so Goossen has done a good job for him in that respect and the others have dropped the ball.
"Gary Shaw is a excellent promoter from a fans point of view" - Carl Fraoch is not a fan, he is (was) a World Champion. "He does not baby his fighters" - there is a big difference between "Babying" a fighter and throwing him into wars for no reason. The place inbetween is building a boxer and his career, making the most of what he has and looking after his well being. That is an excellent promoter. That is not Gary Shaw. He watched Jeff Lacy get the bollocks knocked out of him for 11 and a half rounds against Calzaghe then got up in the last minuite and said stop the fight. Ask Lacy how good a promoter he is. That night was the end of his career. (one example)
You can't use the Calzaghe fight as an example at all, because the majority of people thought Lacy would win. He wasn't pushed to early, he was knocking everybody out. Hindsight is a wonderful thing.
Re: froch hits out at hennesey!
Posted: 27 May 2010, 04:08
by falkor
Is it just me as I can't see what makes Froch so good. He has some cracking wins like Pascal but lacks a lot of the skills to win him the big fights. Also he isn't a exciting fighter to watch and it's understanable why TV networks don't want him.
I think him and Mick deserve each other
Re: froch hits out at hennesey!
Posted: 27 May 2010, 05:18
by martin_g91
ArtOfWar wrote:martin_g91 wrote:ArtOfWar wrote:
Gary Shaw is an excellent promoter from a fans point of view. He more than anyone is willing to make fights the fans want to see and doesn't baby any of his fighters.
Froch is pi$$ed off and feeling the pressure in my opinion. He thinks he won his last fight even though he clearly didn't and now he might have to go to Germany and face a guy he's very unlikely to knock out. That means he's got to clearly win on the scorecards, because he probably won't get any favours.
Not a good situation to be in, especially when he was led to believe he'd be fighting at home for sure. Andre Ward is the one who has got things easy here. All his fights will be at home, so Goossen has done a good job for him in that respect and the others have dropped the ball.
"Gary Shaw is a excellent promoter from a fans point of view" - Carl Fraoch is not a fan, he is (was) a World Champion. "He does not baby his fighters" - there is a big difference between "Babying" a fighter and throwing him into wars for no reason. The place inbetween is building a boxer and his career, making the most of what he has and looking after his well being. That is an excellent promoter. That is not Gary Shaw. He watched Jeff Lacy get the bollocks knocked out of him for 11 and a half rounds against Calzaghe then got up in the last minuite and said stop the fight. Ask Lacy how good a promoter he is. That night was the end of his career. (one example)
You can't use the Calzaghe fight as an example at all, because the majority of people thought Lacy would win. He wasn't pushed to early, he was knocking everybody out. Hindsight is a wonderful thing.
I'm not saying he was pushed in too early and I agree that he was odds on to win BEFORE the fight. What I'm saying is that IN the fight he got his arse handed to him round after round. It was quite clear to everyone watching that he was never in it after five rounds. However, instead of doing his young, up and coming fighter with the best years of his career ahead of him a favor, pulling him out after six or eight to fight another day, the fat prick sat there and watched him get an absolute pasting round after round. And to get up and shout stop the fight with a minute to go ? Twat. Before anyone say's "he was a world champion and deserved every chance" "he could have pulled out a knock-out punch in the 12th, you never know", you DO know, watch the fight again.
Re: froch hits out at hennesey!
Posted: 27 May 2010, 05:38
by tannervegas
falkor wrote:Also he isn't a exciting fighter to watch.
Stop talking out of your arse.
If you think Froch vs Kessler or Pascal were boring fights then you need to start following a new sport.
Re: froch hits out at hennesey!
Posted: 27 May 2010, 11:21
by Jesus
tannervegas wrote:falkor wrote:Also he isn't a exciting fighter to watch.
Stop talking out of your arse.
If you think Froch vs Kessler or Pascal were boring fights then you need to start following a new sport.
x2 what kind of idiot would say froch is a boring fighter? the pascal and taylor fights were fight of the year contenders and personally when i watch froch fight im always on the edge of my seat! where do these idiots come from with these stupid comments??
Re: froch hits out at hennesey!
Posted: 27 May 2010, 17:47
by Finn
Jesus wrote:tannervegas wrote:falkor wrote:Also he isn't a exciting fighter to watch.
Stop talking out of your arse.
If you think Froch vs Kessler or Pascal were boring fights then you need to start following a new sport.
x2 what kind of idiot would say froch is a boring fighter? the pascal and taylor fights were fight of the year contenders and personally when i watch froch fight im always on the edge of my seat! where do these idiots come from with these stupid comments??
Yeah i cant stand froch and think he is a limited boxer at world level but Froch v Kessler was a classic, and froch v pascal was a war.