1991 Larry Holmes vs

[Robinson]

I dont think Bruno had a glass jaw as such. He got hit by big punchers
when he was over exposed, usually when he was going for it. I mean
he was only stopped by some of the hardest big men ever...

Lewis, Tyson, Withersponn and Smith and granted he was stunned by
Jumbo but he did show an ability to recover and fight on.

Bruno was very unlucky in his fight with Lewis, he was leading it well
and just got tagged by a massive shot. I do see Holmes giving Lewis
a lot of trouble at that time. I think Lennox struggles with a guy who
can jab hard and fast at him.

[SaadOffTheDeck]

"...i wish people could express opinions here without saddam and irenie -when they're not bickering with themselves- turning it into a punch and judy match.

Lets see them take the bait like the quarreling housewives they are!"

That was pretty funny!

Saad & I do have some pretty steep core differences on a few subjects, but I can't say I don't respect his views & the arguments he puts forth. More than can be said for a lot of others, in my view, but, then, that's why I'm the Forum pudendum in the eyes of so many, I suppose

Poor Mugabi ought to worry about learning how to compose a literate sentence. I fear we are battling with a 'special" individual. He picks Morrison to slaughter Holmes and then responds to the laughter by attacking us and talking about Lewis/Bruno.

On the plus side, it isn't every day you get to read someone rave about Tommy Morrison's stamina.

[Goodnight, Irene]

[SaadOffTheDeck]

Fued?

[SaadOffTheDeck]

I dont think Bruno had a glass jaw as such. He got hit by big punchers
when he was over exposed, usually when he was going for it. I mean
he was only stopped by some of the hardest big men ever...

Lewis, Tyson, Withersponn and Smith and granted he was stunned by
Jumbo but he did show an ability to recover and fight on.

Bruno was very unlucky in his fight with Lewis, he was leading it well
and just got tagged by a massive shot. I do see Holmes giving Lewis
a lot of trouble at that time. I think Lennox struggles with a guy who
can jab hard and fast at him.

Definitely unlucky, considering it was the first and last left hook Lennox ever landed.

[Heartbreak_Kid79]

i actually watched lewis in his early days? A cumbersome slow as hell muscle bound bruno was able to control the 93 lewis with his jab alone
i was in the cheap seats that night and beleive me if bruno didnt have a glass jaw and suffer from panic attacks in the ring he would have won that night.the lewis of 91-92 was even less polished and yes i i think a motivated prepared holmes could beat him at that time. Bowe on the other hand by 92 was in the words of steve farhood whose word i value more than a few nickle and dime fight fans "someone who could have beaten any hw in history the night he fought holyfield"

As for morrison he is one of the very few man who had the speed and power to in conjecture do to holmes what tyson did 3-4 years earlier.its lousy how amateur wanabee fight historians hit on tommy.he was a man who had all the tools, power,speed,stamina,heart and brains on his best night.on such a night he could do what tyson did to holmes if the fight was in 91-92.people forget he was totally outboxing mercer and mercers power turned it.holmes in the 90s didnt have that power

Mugabi, you seem to use Lewis-Bruno frequently as an example to somehow justify Lewis not being a good fighter.
First of all Frank was not as bad as people make out! He only ever lost to 4 guys who were all world champions (2 being legends in Lewis & Tyson). Bruno may have struggled with the elite of his day... but put him in with any guy outside the top 10 and its a brutal Bruno KO. In fact if a prime Bruno was going to today, i'd think he could take out some of the WBO or WBA champs we've seen recently (though not the Klits or Haye).

And remember we are talking of the 1992 Lewis who bombed out Razor Ruddock in 2 rounds! Lewis was not at his peak in 1992, but you give the impression that Lewis is just a green rookie... whereas he was ranked in the top 3 HWs in the world in 1992.
Even the 1992 Lewis was a far superior fighter than Morrison... and Lewis would go on to beat Tommy 3 years later.

[Bricks]

"...i wish people could express opinions here without saddam and irenie -when they're not bickering with themselves- turning it into a punch and judy match.

Lets see them take the bait like the quarreling housewives they are!"

That was pretty funny!

Saad & I do have some pretty steep core differences on a few subjects, but I can't say I don't respect his views & the arguments he puts forth. More than can be said for a lot of others, in my view, but, then, that's why I'm the Forum pudendum in the eyes of so many, I suppose

Poor Mugabi ought to worry about learning how to compose a literate sentence. I fear we are battling with a 'special" individual. He picks Morrison to slaughter Holmes and then responds to the laughter by attacking us and talking about Lewis/Bruno.

On the plus side, it isn't every day you get to read someone rave about Tommy Morrison's stamina.

Since you love to bring up "literacy" in every argument you have consider some of us have lives and for example knock out posts on tiny mobile phones whilst on a subway train so dont have the time, perhaps you have, to revisit typos.
Since at least irenie admits he is the "cunnt" of the board at least you should admit you are his equal in that station. I will ignore your WWE style rants and primitive views once again.

Perhaps you should try fighting many rounds with a broken jaw like Tommy did against Hipp before you dismiss Morrison's "stamina" so readily. Also since you like to make everything black and white and exaggerate someones stated views, I didnt "rave" about Morrisons stamina, I merely mentioned he was gifted in every department physically.

Robinson and Heartbreak thanks for the feeback.I take on board what you are saying which is pretty correct. Bruno did only get stopped by big punchers but just in my estimation and i realise there are two of you who hold a view different to mine I probably wouldnt classify Bonecrusher or Witherspoon as "some of the biggest punchers ever"..... in that era as no doubt you two know better than me,there were many many big punching HW contenders, Tua, Moorer,Ruddock,Cooney, Foreman,Weaver, Stewart, Mason, Morrison, plus the names you mentioned ,who in theory Frank would have to fight at least a few in order to progress in the HW division. Frank choose to fight Smith and Witherspoon who he was leading before his chin let him down and it was the same story with Tyson and Lewis. My point is Frank was beating on points 3 of those 4 guys, but his chin/inability to recover from a punch/ hold on/ whatever you want to call it ultimately let him down. dont get me wrong Frank is a very succesful boxer and achieved what few did. he was a world champion and credit to the human race and is loved in the UK in a few few sportsmen are. in the modern day.

I do mention Lewis-Bruno a lot. Purely as I attended the fight and being from the same London background as these two I have had this conversation about Lewis many many times in the late night Barber shops in South London. In such places Ive heard guys like derek williams, horace notice and others who sparred both lewsis and bruno say Bruno hit harder than lewis at this time and was more skilled with his jab etc but he didnt have a chin to match his determination, heart and power.Probably fair comment.

Its probably another topic for another time but Razor didnt really train much for the lewis fight. he had terrible out of the ring troubles with his brother delroy and murad his promoter ripping him off and in hindsight he has stated he was finished after the tyson wars. Thats his opinion and i concur with it.

[SaadOffTheDeck]

For someone with a "life", you have no problem writing novels and making countless posts about nothing. I make grammatical errors myself, but I don't spend every other post calling people a moron like you do.

Morrison's stamina was well below average. Everybody knows that, or at least they should. He had a lot of heart and that showed in the Hipp war. But Joe Hipp aint no Larry Holmes.

[dempseyfire]

Mugabi, regarding Morrison, clearly you are fan of his, which is fine, but to try to trump him up as anything more than an athletically gifted quick starting puncher with major chin and stamina issues is pure myth. Morrison's stamina SUCKED. The guy gassed after 3 rounds vs Mercer, 4 rounds vs TERRY ANDERSON, vs Purrity, Hipp, by the 4th round vs Lewis . . .I mean it's very common knowledge Tommy's stamina was a major liability for him. Sure he won a slugfest vs a past-it Ruddock and outpointed a sluggish Foreman (hell, Axel Schultz did much more clearly but he doesn't get the credit Tommy does for his performance vs George in which he turned his back on Foreman several times throuhgout the fight) . . beyond those fights he was little more than a gatekeeper level fighter.

[Bricks]

Mugabi, regarding Morrison, clearly you are fan of his, which is fine, but to try to trump him up as anything more than an athletically gifted quick starting puncher with major chin and stamina issues is pure myth. Morrison's stamina SUCKED. The guy gassed after 3 rounds vs Mercer, 4 rounds vs TERRY ANDERSON, vs Purrity, Hipp, by the 4th round vs Lewis . . .I mean it's very common knowledge Tommy's stamina was a major liability for him. Sure he won a slugfest vs a past-it Ruddock and outpointed a sluggish Foreman (hell, Axel Schultz did much more clearly but he doesn't get the credit Tommy does for his performance vs George in which he turned his back on Foreman several times throuhgout the fight) . . beyond those fights he was little more than a gatekeeper level fighter.

no im not particulary a fan of morrison.
But i must confess that as a connosuer of boxing i admired morrisons talents and gifts. He showed me enough to suggest that on any given day when he could ally discipline and dedication to that talent he had a shot at beating handily a fighter of the calibre of holmes 91-92 and beating quite handily.
Sure morrisons stamina wasnt always great but stamina can be improved in a good training camp. It isnt so easy to give a fighter the talent,heart, and physical tools morrison had in a single training camp.

I dont agree with you that morrisson was a gatekeeper.I could be like you and respond with a childish barb on that remark of yours. But I wont. With a impressive 45-3 or so record at his peak when he retired at 26 due to the hiv positive result he hadnt hung around enough or deterioted enough to be reduced to the level of a gatekeeper. He wasnt ever a monte barret. He only lost to some of the best, lewis and mercer two olympic gold medalists , one a hw legend, the other one of the toughest contenders of the 90's. Sure he had that one loss to bent, but the only thing suprising about the bent debacle was that it didnt happen more often to a man as indisciplined and destructive as the party animal morrison. Perhaps that tells its own tale about the multi faceted talent of tommy. If his power and speed wasnt enough sometimes his heart was.besides a lot of other much better hw's than morrison such as the klitchkos and lewis have embarrasing defeats to lesser foes on their records

but Dempsey I didnt say Morrison was a top level HW anywhere you said that,I said ultimately tommy morrisom wasnt anything near approaching a top level hw but in my mind and this was my only point in why i chose him to stop the 92 holmes...........tommy showed enough in the heroic tragedy of his career to me to suggest on his day when the stars were aligned or whatever he could beat a great of the ilk of foreman mk2 and imo a holmes 91-92.

[Bricks]

For someone with a "life", you have no problem writing novels and making countless posts about nothing. I make grammatical errors myself, but I don't spend every other post calling people a moron like you do.

Morrison's stamina was well below average. Everybody knows that, or at least they should. He had a lot of heart and that showed in the Hipp war. But Joe Hipp aint no Larry Holmes.

perhaps i do write novels saddam.

Perhaps i do

But its preferable to me than to abase myself in adopting the cheap tabloid/gutter press style you have made the sole preserve of yours on this great board of ours. I will not despair of your mindless views or the depravity of your intellect.

You are the forum troll always arguing and realistically you shouldnt expect to be anything more than that.

[Goodnight, Irene]

"...Since at least irenie admits he is the "cunnt" of the board at least you should admit you are his equal in that station..." - Mugabi

I did no such thing. It appears your comprehension is also lacking. What I said was several individuals (much of them as ignorant & oblivious as yourself to interpreting what they're watching when they try to study boxing --- coincidence --- unlikely) consider me that. That's a Grand Canyon-sized distinction between your interpretation of what I said. Little wonder a person with such skewed visions of reality thinks Morrison had endurance

When you call out imbeciles for being just that, they will consider you a pudendum. What do you think of me, Mugabi?

[SaadOffTheDeck]

I think he likes you. He is quite smitten with me. While some may consider the attention somewhat flattering. Trolls get boring for me in a hurry. Especially ones that say the same boring and repetitive hogwash day after day. Mugabi has the troll handbook and he is following it step by step.

[Robinson]

Regarding Morrison's stamina.

I think he is like most explosive big punchers,
its hard to physicaly sustain such exertions over
a long period of time. Though in some fights,
when he fought a different fight (Foreman fight
as an example) and he was able to pace himself
his stamina was not as much an issue.

But for the most part, the Tommy Morrison we
all love or hate is a short winded guy who is dangerous
to most men for about 6 rounds. He is in good company
here though, I mean he is with young Quarry, Shavers,
Bo Satterfield and a post prison Tyson when it comes
to such a trait.

I think Morrison said it best regarding his strengths,
I think it was during last round break or just before
in his fight with Lewis. When they are talking about
stopping the fight.

"I still have my left hook" he reassured the ref and his
corner.

Yes you did, Tommy. But unfortunate for you and
your fans, Lewis was too hard for you to land it on.

In any case Morrison will always be exciting to retro
watch and maybe to some he will be viewed as a
could have been. But for me he did all that he could
bike pants and mullet with standing, and gave us
some great fights, high lights and while he did fall
short in some fights, he never failed to entertain.

Though we do have some match ups where it
would have been a treat to see him in...

vs Bruno, Seldon, Tyson, Bowe, Holmes, Fergusson.

Fore example...win or lose it would have been nice
to see him in action against those men.

[punchoutsb]

I think he definitely beats Razor and Buster. He'd have a chance against Tommy because of Tommy's chin and stamina issues, but I'd still favor Tommy in that fight slightly. I don't think he beats any of the others, but he'd be of course competitive. Bruno is anther swing fight.

[Bricks]

Saddodick your jealousy and obsession with me is really getting out of hand!! Do get some proffesional help!

[Goodnight, Irene]

Saddodick your jealousy and obsession with me is really getting out of hand!! Do get some proffesional help!

Uncle Saad gets the treatment, but no love for your Aunt Irene, Gabs?

[SaadOffTheDeck]

I'm his favorite, and it's funny watching him curl up his tiny little fists in balls of internet rage. Though his obsession is incredibly pathetic.

[SaadOffTheDeck]

Saddodick your jealousy and obsession with me is really getting out of hand!! Do get some proffesional help!

Nobody was talking to you little buddy. I think you should become a professional speller. But i'm sure that was another typo.

Amazing that you have no interest other than bickering on the internet. Some of us are trying to talk about the tremendous stamina of Tommy Morrison. You need to relax keyboard warrior. If you spent half as much time watching fights as you do starting them on the internet you might actually learn something about the sport. But trolling like yours is better served in ignorant bliss.

[Robinson]

John Mugabi vs Mathew Saad Muhammad
would make for a good fight.

[gambler49]

John Mugabi vs Mathew Saad Muhammad
would make for a good fight.

Prime 4 prime Mathew Saad Muhammad would KO him.

[jezzamundo]

vs Frank Bruno (age 31)
vs Lennox Lewis (age 27)
vs Riddick Bowe (age 25)
vs George Foreman (age 43)
vs Buster Douglas (age 32)
vs Donovan Ruddock (age 29)
vs Tommy Morrison (age 23)

Holmes SD12 Bruno - Bruno has a good jab and would make a fight of it, before losing the last 3 or 4 rounds and dropping the decision.
Lewis MD12 Holmes - Lewis puts Holmes down early but neither wins the battle of the jabs and Lewis goes to sleep, dropping a lot of rounds midway through the fight.
Bowe UD12 Holmes - A prime Riddick has too much for old Larry, winning about 116-112 on each card. Both would be puffy faced at the finish.
Foreman MD12 Holmes - Close call, I think Larry wins a primes matchup but old Larry doesn't have the reflexes to do a rope-a-dope on old George (who would be too wise to fall for that tactic again).
Holmes UD12 Douglas - Buster wasn't actually fighting at this point in time, so I think a motivated Holmes would clearly outpoint him. The Douglas who beat Tyson easily beats old Larry, but that was 1990, not 1992.
Holmes UD12 Ruddock - Highly competitive fight, Holmes wins 115-113 on all three cards.
Holmes D12 Morrison - I could see this going either way, but Holmes doesn't have the power to worry Morrison which poses a serious problem. If Holmes gets through the early rounds, he can take a decision, if Morrison paces himself well, so can he.

[Bricks]

Saddodick your jealousy and obsession with me is really getting out of hand!! Do get some proffesional help!

Nobody was talking to you little buddy. I think you should become a professional speller. But i'm sure that was another typo.

Amazing that you have no interest other than bickering on the internet. Some of us are trying to talk about the tremendous stamina of Tommy Morrison. You need to relax keyboard warrior. If you spent half as much time watching fights as you do starting them on the internet you might actually learn something about the sport. But trolling like yours is better served in ignorant bliss.

Listen to the illiterate little troll king in his online warrior realm. Its all about spelling with you isn't it? I bet you live in some crappy little urine stained project/bedsit sitting on the internet all day constantly having to use spellcheck so no one catches you out on your nit picking. You probably havent moved on from primary school level which is why spelling is so important to you.I'm an Imperial College grad running his own business FYI, but guess what saddo?, some of us are so busy, even us college grads, that we type on the subway, in the car,on our mobile phones, on these boxing forums in bliss that it isn't a spelling bea for 7 year olds, and some troll wont pull us up on it! .I notice you also troll other members and fight all the time with those with a opinion different to yours. Others like dempsey and robinson have an opinion different to mine yet we diont resort to your childish bickering.
Here is a new spelling for you, change your name to saddodick its far more appropriate given your trollish opinions and lack off boxing knowledge! DD

[Bricks]

Saddodick your jealousy and obsession with me is really getting out of hand!! Do get some proffesional help!

If you spent half as much time watching fights as you do starting them on the internet you might actually learn something about the sport. But trolling like yours is better served in ignorant bliss.

Clearly your still in ignorance since it is you who constantly "raves" about Morrisons stamina. All i said was Morrision had well rounded attributes, power, chin,speed,heart and stamina.

Your ignorant tabloid style of seeing things made you jump up and scream and say "he thinks morrison had great stamina!!!" Your problem if your retarded and cant analyse things in joined up thinking!

You ought to look at your own views your the same silly clown who said so pompously "im forced to take david haye off the fighters who ducked no one list" hahah assclown did you know Haye went out of his way to avoid a rematch with Carl Thompson the man who stopped him in brutal fashion. even though carl would have given a rematch at the drop of a penny as he was broke! Carl waited and waited for a rematch but Haye passed up on it even though the TV money was there! Still how can you expect the retard troll who thinks George Foreman wasnt a good infighter to know that! hahaah

[Raff The Frenchman]

Judging by the thread, Mugabi hasn't been the one trolling. On the other hand, I do see the same people who once again, have found a way to turn a real boxing discussion with mature people respecting each other into a childish competition for who has the best grammar...If you wanted to discuss Mugabi's point and didn't agree with him you could have just put it into sentences without insulting him, using irony or arguing about his grammar. Indeed as long as you will keep doing that people will probably keep calling you "forum pudendum" and other sweet words, but since you don't really care...