BoxRec

Asterix wrote:

tonyevs wrote:And as for haye wanting to be talked about regardles? Audley harrison was also much talked about .. Amir Khan is much talked about ... its not always for the best is it

The cheques at the end of their fights indicates it is.

So I guess it really is all about the money not the legacy as a certain guy initially promised us..

I realize all too well how the boxing buisiness works .. that doesn`t mean as a fan I got to like it :(

Its the short term grab what you can that has spoilt the game for the guys that follow .. a perfect example is Audley with the BBC.

Is there any wonder why the big tv stations don`t want to give long term contracts for boxing any more. The boxers .. or maybe the managers .. just want to make as much money as easilly as they can with no long term thought for anybody else that may have to follow them.

If the guys that run the sport, as well as the fans except this .. them boxing deserves to get left behind.

1southpaw wrote:i think auldley stops haye in about 7 rounds ???

No you don't.

tonyevs wrote:
Because he barks .. but seems to have no intention of biting ... well not until either Klitschko is well past it.

All the t-shirt and shopping mall incidents only now serve to make haye look the scared guy. All the not so distant promises of him desperate to get either one into the ring with him .. of fighting the best out there etc ... of fighting for the glory and not the money .. oh, the list seems to go on

Funny also how the guys that previously said that Haye will be the divisions saviour .. are now saying he is doing the right thing to make as much money out of the title

I do think he is doing the right thing in making as money as easilly as possible .. then again I never once said he was the heavyweight saviour
Maybe not in this country .. but he will leave a legacy of just another belt holder. Little more than a Chagaev in the world opinion. Because if he does manage to fight either K-brother .. you can guarantee they will be very much on their last legs before he feels safe enough to challenge them

Again, I ask, where is the evidence that Haye is running scared? The initial post quotes Dan Rafael talking to Boente on ESPN.com. There is nothing on ESPN.com about this. So to me it seems like BS made up to make Haye seem like a ducker so that Wlad can take on yet another complicit (non) challenger who'll accept a 10% cut and Wlad can continue his run of ultra safe defences.

I'm happy to wait and see what happens next, not second guess based on BS posts on an unofficial forum or just whine because I'm impatient and I expect the most difficult negotiations to be cleaned up in 5 minutes. It seems to me that Haye is playing a waiting game. He wants the Klitschkos (nothing he has done in his entire career suggests that he is willing to be a safety first title holder), but is not going to sell his a$$ to get them.

And you could argue that Vit started looking past it at times against Sosnowski. Does that mean that any future Haye-Vit fight is instantly discredited? Convenient for the haters.

MachoMan09 wrote: He probably doesn't but never rule out Audley. He is one of those people who things always turn out alright for in the end. I can visualise him barking "I told you all and nobody would listen..". As much as I would make Haye a huge favourite, I would not be shocked in the slightest if Audley Sprotted him.

If he ends up fighting Audley then I really hope he does lose :)
Would serve him right for wasting our time with his constant trash talking and backing down when the fight was there to be made with Wlad.

I think it goes to show that it wasn't just the Setanta thing that made Haye pull out of a fight with Wlad. I genuinely believe he thinks he can't beat him.

If you were David Haye's manager a Harrison fight would make sense, followed by either Klit.

A Harrison fight would get Haye a great payday and at far,far lower risk than Klits. The fight would be huge in Britain, you can imagine the hype...you know 'Battle of Britain' type thing.

Plus there is history between them. They'd be in th epapers almost every day in the month up to the fight.

The Klits are a very risky proposition and I would like to get Haye a huge payday before Klit.

reggaereggae wrote:If you were David Haye's manager a Harrison fight would make sense, followed by either Klit.

A Harrison fight would get Haye a great payday and at far,far lower risk than Klits. The fight would be huge in Britain, you can imagine the hype...you know 'Battle of Britain' type thing.

Plus there is history between them. They'd be in th epapers almost every day in the month up to the fight.

The Klits are a very risky proposition and I would like to get Haye a huge payday before Klit.

For such a self-professed ladies man, Haye is doing a lot of fannying around in search of a Klitschko. Unlike their name sake they're hard to miss after all. Unless you're an American heavyweight then they're easy to miss.

However, whilst immediate fights with the Klitschko sisters would have been refreshing it was always about as likely as....well something unlikely once Haye earned a LOT of money fighting Valuev who'd already been mugged by Chagaev.

Of course, the point in all this is - VK needs DH more. Unless VK beats a live, young, ambitious, fit, aggressive contender before he's out his whole career will have a distinctly shallow look.

earsjohn wrote:

tonyevs wrote:
Because he barks .. but seems to have no intention of biting ... well not until either Klitschko is well past it.

All the t-shirt and shopping mall incidents only now serve to make haye look the scared guy. All the not so distant promises of him desperate to get either one into the ring with him .. of fighting the best out there etc ... of fighting for the glory and not the money .. oh, the list seems to go on

Funny also how the guys that previously said that Haye will be the divisions saviour .. are now saying he is doing the right thing to make as much money out of the title

I do think he is doing the right thing in making as money as easilly as possible .. then again I never once said he was the heavyweight saviour
Maybe not in this country .. but he will leave a legacy of just another belt holder. Little more than a Chagaev in the world opinion. Because if he does manage to fight either K-brother .. you can guarantee they will be very much on their last legs before he feels safe enough to challenge them

Again, I ask, where is the evidence that Haye is running scared? The initial post quotes Dan Rafael talking to Boente on ESPN.com. There is nothing on ESPN.com about this. So to me it seems like BS made up to make Haye seem like a ducker so that Wlad can take on yet another complicit (non) challenger who'll accept a 10% cut and Wlad can continue his run of ultra safe defences.

I'm happy to wait and see what happens next, not second guess based on BS posts on an unofficial forum or just whine because I'm impatient and I expect the most difficult negotiations to be cleaned up in 5 minutes. It seems to me that Haye is playing a waiting game. He wants the Klitschkos (nothing he has done in his entire career suggests that he is willing to be a safety first title holder), but is not going to sell his a$$ to get them.

And you could argue that Vit started looking past it at times against Sosnowski. Does that mean that any future Haye-Vit fight is instantly discredited? Convenient for the haters.

Where's the rebuttal from Haye and his team if there's no truth to the offer? This has been out there for a few days now.

If there's no word from Haye or Booth within the next week or so then it's quite obvious what the reason was for not accepting the offer. If they respond that the offer was a lie then that would imply that they would accept such an offer. Their silence, on the other hand, implies that they don't want the fight, now, but instead down the line at some point, in order to cash in on Haye's newfound popularity by taking on the likes of Harrison.

charlieb wrote:

earsjohn wrote:

tonyevs wrote:
Because he barks .. but seems to have no intention of biting ... well not until either Klitschko is well past it.

All the t-shirt and shopping mall incidents only now serve to make haye look the scared guy. All the not so distant promises of him desperate to get either one into the ring with him .. of fighting the best out there etc ... of fighting for the glory and not the money .. oh, the list seems to go on

Funny also how the guys that previously said that Haye will be the divisions saviour .. are now saying he is doing the right thing to make as much money out of the title

I do think he is doing the right thing in making as money as easilly as possible .. then again I never once said he was the heavyweight saviour
Maybe not in this country .. but he will leave a legacy of just another belt holder. Little more than a Chagaev in the world opinion. Because if he does manage to fight either K-brother .. you can guarantee they will be very much on their last legs before he feels safe enough to challenge them

Again, I ask, where is the evidence that Haye is running scared? The initial post quotes Dan Rafael talking to Boente on ESPN.com. There is nothing on ESPN.com about this. So to me it seems like BS made up to make Haye seem like a ducker so that Wlad can take on yet another complicit (non) challenger who'll accept a 10% cut and Wlad can continue his run of ultra safe defences.

I'm happy to wait and see what happens next, not second guess based on BS posts on an unofficial forum or just whine because I'm impatient and I expect the most difficult negotiations to be cleaned up in 5 minutes. It seems to me that Haye is playing a waiting game. He wants the Klitschkos (nothing he has done in his entire career suggests that he is willing to be a safety first title holder), but is not going to sell his a$$ to get them.

And you could argue that Vit started looking past it at times against Sosnowski. Does that mean that any future Haye-Vit fight is instantly discredited? Convenient for the haters.

Where's the rebuttal from Haye and his team if there's no truth to the offer? This has been out there for a few days now.

If there's no word from Haye or Booth within the next week or so then it's quite obvious what the reason was for not accepting the offer. If they respond that the offer was a lie then that would imply that they would accept such an offer. Their silence, on the other hand, implies that they don't want the fight, now, but instead down the line at some point, in order to cash in on Haye's newfound popularity by taking on the likes of Harrison.

Simply put, I see this differently. I see the Haye teams silence not as a sign of them running scared of the Klits but of them having better things to do than respond to every internet rumour and every bit of gossip. If this was 10-15 years ago (ie in the days before internet fora), we would just wait for a fight to be announced, with the gaps in between considered time for negotiations to be carried out, understandably, behind closed doors with updates provided through the print media. Nowadays, if a new fight hasn't been announced within a week of the previous fight, conspiracy theories take over and accusations based on nothing but impatience are thrown around. Silence used to be silence, now it has some far deeper, guessed at, meaning.

A product of our times? Indeed.

earsjohn wrote:

charlieb wrote:

earsjohn wrote: Again, I ask, where is the evidence that Haye is running scared? The initial post quotes Dan Rafael talking to Boente on ESPN.com. There is nothing on ESPN.com about this. So to me it seems like BS made up to make Haye seem like a ducker so that Wlad can take on yet another complicit (non) challenger who'll accept a 10% cut and Wlad can continue his run of ultra safe defences.

I'm happy to wait and see what happens next, not second guess based on BS posts on an unofficial forum or just whine because I'm impatient and I expect the most difficult negotiations to be cleaned up in 5 minutes. It seems to me that Haye is playing a waiting game. He wants the Klitschkos (nothing he has done in his entire career suggests that he is willing to be a safety first title holder), but is not going to sell his a$$ to get them.

And you could argue that Vit started looking past it at times against Sosnowski. Does that mean that any future Haye-Vit fight is instantly discredited? Convenient for the haters.

Where's the rebuttal from Haye and his team if there's no truth to the offer? This has been out there for a few days now.

If there's no word from Haye or Booth within the next week or so then it's quite obvious what the reason was for not accepting the offer. If they respond that the offer was a lie then that would imply that they would accept such an offer. Their silence, on the other hand, implies that they don't want the fight, now, but instead down the line at some point, in order to cash in on Haye's newfound popularity by taking on the likes of Harrison.

Simply put, I see this differently. I see the Haye teams silence not as a sign of them running scared of the Klits but of them having better things to do than respond to every internet rumour and every bit of gossip. If this was 10-15 years ago (ie in the days before internet fora), we would just wait for a fight to be announced, with the gaps in between considered time for negotiations to be carried out, understandably, behind closed doors with updates provided through the print media. Nowadays, if a new fight hasn't been announced within a week of the previous fight, conspiracy theories take over and accusations based on nothing but impatience are thrown around. Silence used to be silence, now it has some far deeper, guessed at, meaning.

A product of our times? Indeed.

What's good for the goose is good for the gander, you can't do what Haye's team has done in order to place him in line for a fight with a Klitschko and then decide that you're above such pettiness.

You're right, times change. Boxing press is a thing of the internet these days by and large, instantaneous. There's little chance Haye & co haven't been informed of what's been said. If they don't formulate some kind of response sharpish, the natural assumption has to be that they don't want the fight they've fought tooth and claw to make happen, at least not as their next step.

I'm a fan of Haye's and I'll remain a fan regardless becasue he's already achieved more than most ever will and he did it the hard way. If it's time for him to step away from the road less travelled and cash in, that's fine, but call a spade a spade.

The fact that Adam Booth said in a statement that several opitions were being considered and one of the names in the mix is Audely

This shows that "team Hayemaker" standards have dropped

Now they are just looking to make the easy money

I dont even begrudge Haye making easy money - by knocking out some average guys

But first fight a Klitschko ..........cos thats the fight that matters

Otherwise Haye is just ducking and diving - and fighting Audely is nothing more than treading water and expecting people to pay £15 Sky Box Office for it - no doubt

I remeber the press conference in England for his fight with Wladmir.

I just felt like Haye didnt really fancy the fight at the time - he wasnt really confident of victory.

He was saying the right things - that it was time to KO the East Europeans reign over the heavyweights, etc

But I just felt like he wasnt really fancying the fight - the task was a daunting one.

I know Setanta collapsed and his purse was in jeopoardy - so that could be a valid reason for pulling out

Not the reason Haye gave though - a bad back he said - and I felt regardless of what happened with TV stations, going down, etc - I would have been surprised if Haye had gone through with the fight anyway.

Just felt when the fight got closer - he kinda knew he was gonna lose if he went through with it.

why do fan's still fail to realise proffesional boxing is a buisness!!!

people are knocking harrisons challenge who's more accomplished then soswoski :!:

haye is getting the green now & is establishing himself to the ww audience :!: & he's exciting :!: fighting even tomato cans as they can or could possibly chin him.
both party's are hyping up the fight too stir intrest, so it wont happen anytime soon.haye is probably one of the few to bring somthing to the table against the klits & he'll makesure he's a winner.

charlieb wrote:

earsjohn wrote:

FLINT ISLAND wrote:I hear your voice of reason AUTOBARN

But it must be very disappointing for Hayes fans - who got behind him - who believed him - when he said he would fight Godzilla and whoever they put in front of him.

He is so exciting ,so brave, so fearless, fight anyone, etc

He loses credibailty as a person - his whole persona of the last couple of years - is now comprmised

Wlad - you got to give the geezer credit - he wants the fight - 50/50 offer is just been made to see if Haye really does -

It makes Haye look like a joke now

Do you understand Boxing?

As a Haye fan who has followed him since his Am days and watched as he has never once taken the easy route to achieve what he has said he wants to achieve, not rushing into a fools agreement with the Klitschkos makes perfect sense.

His credibility as a person is not compromised; on the contrary, it is to be applauded that he is prepared to stand his ground in negotiations given that he has the weight of SBO numbers behind him.

As for the Wlad offer - where is the link? The actual quotes/video evidence to support the original post? I could quite easily post a few sentences, citing Adam Booth having offered the Klits a deal but having heard no response based on nothing but my fevered imagination.

I've long learned to ignore 90% of what is said outside of the ring as it is invariably used to hype and sell fights as that is what makes boxers more money. Based on what goes on inside the ring, David Haye is about as far from a joke as its possible to find in boxing today.

Applauded for standing his ground in negotiations?

That's a quite a puzzling view if the offer was genuine. 50/50, no options. Was he holding out for a 60/40 split?

My guess is the location - with other offers on the table you would be a fool not to at least look at them, the fight will be made for september / november, its just hype building.

hurlock wrote:why do fan's still fail to realise proffesional boxing is a buisness!!!

It's a promoter's job to get the greatest reward for the smallest risk. But it's up to us as knowledgeable fans to put pressure on them to give us fights that are good value for our money.

If Haye isn't going to back up his talk by taking on the Klitschkos, he should stop wasting our time and retire.

nobby_nobbins wrote:

hurlock wrote:why do fan's still fail to realise proffesional boxing is a buisness!!!

It's a promoter's job to get the greatest reward for the smallest risk. But it's up to us as knowledgeable fans to put pressure on them to give us fights that are good value for our money.

If Haye isn't going to back up his talk by taking on the Klitschkos, he should stop wasting our time and retire.

Wow we have some short memories. Klitschkos or nothing then? He's been a heavyweight for barely 18 months, with just 3 fights, 2 for a World Title. Yes, I would love to see him fight a Klitschko and a fight v Wlad or Vitali would be my No 1 and No 2 choices. But if those fights don't come off immediately (it seems to have been forgotten that the Brothers are notoriously difficult negotiators; they will not give an inch) there are plenty of other fights I'd be happy to see. Vitali v Sosnowski seemed to be good enough for a huge German audience and 60k paying spectators; I don't see how Haye v Audley is significantly less credible. I also think it's in Davids interest to use the possiblity of an Audley fight as leverage in Klitschko negotiations. If Haye can make money without the brothers, they should be forced to concede some ground in negotiations. After all they have more credibility to lose in terms of their championship legacy than Haye.

earsjohn wrote:

nobby_nobbins wrote:

hurlock wrote:why do fan's still fail to realise proffesional boxing is a buisness!!!

It's a promoter's job to get the greatest reward for the smallest risk. But it's up to us as knowledgeable fans to put pressure on them to give us fights that are good value for our money.

If Haye isn't going to back up his talk by taking on the Klitschkos, he should stop wasting our time and retire.

Wow we have some short memories. Klitschkos or nothing then? He's been a heavyweight for barely 18 months, with just 3 fights, 2 for a World Title. Yes, I would love to see him fight a Klitschko and a fight v Wlad or Vitali would be my No 1 and No 2 choices. But if those fights don't come off immediately (it seems to have been forgotten that the Brothers are notoriously difficult negotiators; they will not give an inch) there are plenty of other fights I'd be happy to see. Vitali v Sosnowski seemed to be good enough for a huge German audience and 60k paying spectators; I don't see how Haye v Audley is significantly less credible. I also think it's in Davids interest to use the possiblity of an Audley fight as leverage in Klitschko negotiations. If Haye can make money without the brothers, they should be forced to concede some ground in negotiations. After all they have more credibility to lose in terms of their championship legacy than Haye.

Haye has had 4 fights at HW with the first being well over three years ago. Apart form that fraud Enzo who was clearly found out after the Haye fight because he then also lost by KO to two much lesser fighters, WHO has Haye actually beaten that wasn't past their best and past their mid 30's? Amazingly, all his fights from Nov 2006 onwards have been to fighters in their mid to late 30's. Please don't get sucked in by all the hype that Haye has always fought the best. He often waits until the right opportunity comes round (usually until the opposition is old and worn out enough for him). He initially thought that the Klits were a bit old and past it so he made all that noise, but now he has other ideas. Funnily enough, I don't regard Fraudley as a complete no hoper against Haye. I think it will be an exciting fight and I would definitely give Audley more of a chance than a completely shot Ruiz, but I would rather watch him fight one of the Klits. Hopefully it can be made after Audley gets KO'd (I know I'm taking liberties by making the assumption that the KO will not go the other way)

FLINT ISLAND wrote:I wish Barry Hearnw ould shut his mouth as well

Calling...........haye v harrison..............the biggest British heavyweight title fight of all time

Shut up Barry - you failed bookmaker..........your talking crap

Bruno V Lewis was much a bigger fight

Hearn wasn't a bookmaker for a start and it was his son who said it, although both are equally as deluded on this one.

Titles aside, Lewis V Mason was bigger IMO. Probably Bugner V Bruno too although equally as mismatched as Haye v Audley.

It will be very nice to see Audley get smashed to pieces, but c'mon, David. You can't harp on about fighting the best available, then once you get the SBO position start trying to make easy fights. It's a joke if this happens. In fact, it's a joke that Haye and Booth have even opened up talks with Harrison's camp.

people are excusing haye from fighting the klitschkos because he can make money fighting others... what about the fact that he wouldn't shut up about calling the klitschkos out? he then pulled out of fighting both and now is demanding random drug testing... right after wlad refused povetkins request for random drug testing...

My wife who really isn't into boxing but gets forced to watch it and listen to me witter on about it summed it up for me. I told her that David Haye was likely to fight Audley instead of a Klitshcko and she said

"What? Isn't Audley Harrison the one who gets beat all the time? Why would Haye want to fight him? I was really looking forward to seeing him against one of the Klitshko's. This will be rubbish, we're not paying to order this one, it will only last one round"

tonyevs wrote: haye had to travel and give options to get opportunities back then ... he had no other options .. and that was then

And as for haye wanting to be talked about regardles? Audley harrison was also much talked about .. Amir Khan is much talked about ... its not always for the best is it

Yeah, I'm sure Audley would gladly trade in the millions generated by all the negative talk - and thus all the bums on seats and TV viewers - for a quieter, more respectful fan base.

boxingchat wrote:

FLINT ISLAND wrote:I wish Barry Hearnw ould shut his mouth as well

Calling...........haye v harrison..............the biggest British heavyweight title fight of all time

Shut up Barry - you failed bookmaker..........your talking crap

Bruno V Lewis was much a bigger fight

Hearn wasn't a bookmaker for a start and it was his son who said it, although both are equally as deluded on this one.

Titles aside, Lewis V Mason was bigger IMO. Probably Bugner V Bruno too although equally as mismatched as Haye v Audley.

Ok - failed charted accountant then.

Spud wrote:Interesting thread.

Another thought for you all - its a boxer and managers job to make as much money as possible.

That's true, but it's a hard core fan's job to demand the best fights and to raise the alarm when we see mutton being dressed as lamb.