BoxRec

Autobarn wrote:

jamesmcdonnell wrote:Its not like Haye himself is overstating his claims, he's disarmingly modest when it comes to his achievements. He's often stated that his hero is Lennox Lewis, and he recognises that he will never match Lewis' achievements in the time he has left.

I don't think Haye will probably go down as a hall of famer, aside from everything else, the heavyweight division is far too weak right now.

Vitali may well retire undefeated as champion in 18 months time, and It's questionable whether he will make it despite a ledger which whilst not packed with names, does include wins over just about every prominent name of his era - except of course for his own brother.

if haye beats vitali klitschko, even an old vitali, then haye could go on to become a hall of famer.

i think this fight happens, especially with vitali being in slight decline. if haye loses, he'll still make an absolute killing with the sky box office money and the money from american television; he'll be hugely successful if you count the money and all the different belts he's won, and this is what most fighters aspire to.

a competitive loss to vitali, if haye lands a few great shots, has some good moments, could certainly get haye on the pound for pound lists.

I don't think one win over Vitali would merit being in the hall of fame, as I don't think Vitali has done enough to get there himself. Haye's had a good career, but there's no truly great fighters in their prime he's faced. Enzo was European level, Mormeck was pretty past it, Barrett ditto, Valuev awkward but mediocre......you get my gist.

it could put him on his way, as vitali is a major hurdle and a big, quality heavyweight.

there are some extremely talented and dangerous guys waiting, povetkin (olympic gold medallist and winner of 2 IBF elims as a pro), boytsov, odlanier solis fonte, ad former light heavy and cruiser champ and now top 5 heavyweight contender tomasz adamek:

wins over any of these guys would prove something and could be memorable, exciting title defenses.

lefthook82 wrote:A loss can never get you on a lb for lb list

Edit: For a second I forgot what sport I was talking about. I'll rephrase..

A loss of any description should never get you on a lb for lb list

to fight on competitive terms vs a man of that size, especially if you'd once been a skinny 190-pounder, might stir up "pound for pound" debates.

jamesmcdonnell wrote:

Autobarn wrote:

jamesmcdonnell wrote:Its not like Haye himself is overstating his claims, he's disarmingly modest when it comes to his achievements. He's often stated that his hero is Lennox Lewis, and he recognises that he will never match Lewis' achievements in the time he has left.

I don't think Haye will probably go down as a hall of famer, aside from everything else, the heavyweight division is far too weak right now.

Vitali may well retire undefeated as champion in 18 months time, and It's questionable whether he will make it despite a ledger which whilst not packed with names, does include wins over just about every prominent name of his era - except of course for his own brother.

if haye beats vitali klitschko, even an old vitali, then haye could go on to become a hall of famer.

i think this fight happens, especially with vitali being in slight decline. if haye loses, he'll still make an absolute killing with the sky box office money and the money from american television; he'll be hugely successful if you count the money and all the different belts he's won, and this is what most fighters aspire to.

a competitive loss to vitali, if haye lands a few great shots, has some good moments, could certainly get haye on the pound for pound lists.

I don't think one win over Vitali would merit being in the hall of fame, as I don't think Vitali has done enough to get there himself. Haye's had a good career, but there's no truly great fighters in their prime he's faced. Enzo was European level, Mormeck was pretty past it, Barrett ditto, Valuev awkward but mediocre......you get my gist.

Yeah fella - I'm relating to you

Hayes record spells out..............Ham and Egg and Chips.......he has fed on decent food - but its not like he has eaten up anything too classy

Mormeck was probaly the best win of the lot

Valuev was disappointing in that Haye came to steal the fight rather than assert his authority - either way you look at it - Valuev is a medoirce World Champion fighter who just happens to be huge.

I dont see why Haye has so much credit for the 50/50 fight Enzo win.

It wasnt 50/50 - It was a World Class fighter v a Britiosh / Commonwealth / Euro fighter.

Sure I wanted Enzo to win the fight ----- but it reality he had never proven he was real true world class.

He beat a faded Braithwaite - but Wayne was very incompetitive that night - and was disappointing.

Apart from that Dominuguez was another good win - but again a faded fighter.

FLINT ISLAND wrote:I dont see why Haye has so much credit for the 50/50 fight Enzo win.

It wasnt 50/50 - It was a World Class fighter v a Britiosh / Commonwealth / Euro fighter.

Sure I wanted Enzo to win the fight ----- but it reality he had never proven he was real true world class.

He beat a faded Braithwaite - but Wayne was very incompetitive that night - and was disappointing.

Apart from that Dominuguez was another good win - but again a faded fighter.

Everyone with half a brain knew Haye would muller him, but it was being billed in the media as a 50/50 fight.

you can pick holes in anyones career but haye was undisputed cruiserweight title so what doyou want him to do its not the best division but he beat a good champion in mormeck and smashed a reigning wbo champion in enzo admittedly enzo did overachieve in a poor division but he fought and beat who he had too and had only a few fights at heavyweight winning a world title and defending it against a good fighter in ruiz

craigjenkins05 wrote:you can pick holes in anyones career but haye was undisputed cruiserweight title so what doyou want him to do its not the best division but he beat a good champion in mormeck and smashed a reigning wbo champion in enzo admittedly enzo did overachieve in a poor division but he fought and beat who he had too and had only a few fights at heavyweight winning a world title and defending it against a good fighter in ruiz

This is the problem. Most people don't have a problem with Haye as a fighter and as an entertainer. The problem lies when some people constantly refer to him as 'undisputed' CW champion and refer to the Ruiz that Haye fought as 'a good fighter'. It was a completely shot 38 year old Ruiz who offered no threat at all. As for undisputed champion, if Haye fights Wlad and manages to beat him (after getting off the floor a couple of times); does that make Haye the undisputed HW champ? He would become the Ring champ and considered the lineal champ, but not undisputed until he defeats Vitali who holds one of the other recognised titles. The same was the case with Haye at CW, he didn't beat the other recognised champ. He became the Ring champ and then left after having a total of two world title fights in his whole CW period. I agree that he beat a good champion at CW in Mormeck (albeit he was past his best at over 35 years of age). I also agree that he did well to win the WBA belt after only a few fights at HW (albeit against the weakest champion, who was also past his best at over 36 years of age). He also beat a completely shot Monte Barrett who was over 37 years of age at the time. I still think that Haye is one of the most exciting fighters in any division, and a top quality operator but it's best to be honest and not paper over the cracks and pretend he's done things that he hasn't. On the other extreme, I definitely disagree with all those that say he is a coward and won't fight the Klits. Haye is a very good businessman and he will make as much money as he can before he calls it a day. He will fight at least one of the Klits before he goes, but only when he thinks it makes the best business sense. All that, saviour of the HW division stuff and 'my mission is to unify the HW divsion' was total BS. His mission like most is to make as much money as possible and good luck to him. At the moment he is caring for his ill wife and cuddling his second baby so it's wrong to say he is hiding under his bed.

agreed he didnt hold the IBF title at cruiser but when i say undisputed im looking at the fighter and not at the belt i believe haye was the best cruiserweight in the world, and no ruiz isnt the fighter he was but he showed alot of heart and gave haye a few rounds as for barret same goes yeah he wasnt up to much but it was a fight he had to have warming up to his title fight im not sure hayes legacy is cemented yet but i hope he makes sure it is by fighting the brothers from the east