BoxRec

Panzerfaust wrote:With a lenient ref i can see Jeffries leaning on and muscling Frazier around for a points win
Im certain of one thing : there wont be a 10 count

Mr E wrote:In case you're interested, the November 1972 issue of "International Boxing" (magazine) matched Frazier against a number of the past heavyweight champions. In the match-ups, Frazier travelled back in time to fight under his predecessors' conditions. Here are the results the magazine editors came up with:

v. John L. Sullivan: W-KO23 (fight to the finish)
v. Bob Fitzsimmons: L-KOby13 (25 rounds)
v. Jim Jeffries: L-KOby19 (25 rounds)
v. Jack Johnson: L-KOby10 (15 rounds)
v. Jess Willard: W-Dec.15 (15 rounds)
v. Jack Dempsey: L-KOby3 (15 rounds)
v. Gene Tunney: L-Dec.10 (10 rounds)
v. Max Baer: W-TKO6 (15 rounds)
v. Joe Louis: L-KOby5 (15 rounds)
v. Rocky Marciano: L-KOby8 (15 rounds)

Goodnight, Irene wrote:You look greater in retrospect, Zojo. Most great fighters do, anyway.

Panzerfaust wrote:

Goodnight, Irene wrote:You look greater in retrospect, Zojo. Most great fighters do, anyway.

or they are badly underrated,,, one outa two...

I woulda loved to see Fitzimmons in a all time super middle tourney though :p

Goodnight, Irene wrote:I would be very interested to see how Frazier handles Jeffries' superb strength, his smothering, aggressive assault at close-quarters, & his iron jaw, will, & tremendous conditioning. It would be interesting.

Am I dramatically off-base to consider Jeffries as possibly a bigger, stronger, more durable version of Frazier?

SaadOffTheDeck wrote:Nope, I think there is a pretty significant athletic difference in Joe's favor. that's where I side with him, but Jeffries was a big, strong dude. No doubt about that.

raylawpc wrote:

SaadOffTheDeck wrote:Nope, I think there is a pretty significant athletic difference in Joe's favor. that's where I side with him, but Jeffries was a big, strong dude. No doubt about that.

Jeffries was a great all-around athlete. He could do a six-foot high jump (standing), and ran the 100-yard dash in just over 10 seconds - a remarkable feat for a man 6'2" and 215 pounds at the turn of the century. Corbett called him the fastest big man he had ever seen. I will see if I can find some quotes tonight from contemporary newspapers about Jim's overall athletic prowess.

Frazier, on the otherhand, was not a great all-around athlete. He performed poorly in the ABC Superstar athletic competition in 1973.

raylawpc wrote:

SaadOffTheDeck wrote:Nope, I think there is a pretty significant athletic difference in Joe's favor. that's where I side with him, but Jeffries was a big, strong dude. No doubt about that.

Jeffries was a great all-around athlete. He could do a six-foot high jump (standing), and ran the 100-yard dash in just over 10 seconds - a remarkable feat for a man 6'2" and 215 pounds at the turn of the century. Corbett called him the fastest big man he had ever seen. I will see if I can find some quotes tonight from contemporary newspapers about Jim's overall athletic prowess.

Frazier, on the otherhand, was not a great all-around athlete. He performed poorly in the ABC Superstar athletic competition in 1973.

zojo, wrote:

raylawpc wrote:

SaadOffTheDeck wrote:Nope, I think there is a pretty significant athletic difference in Joe's favor. that's where I side with him, but Jeffries was a big, strong dude. No doubt about that.

Jeffries was a great all-around athlete. He could do a six-foot high jump (standing), and ran the 100-yard dash in just over 10 seconds - a remarkable feat for a man 6'2" and 215 pounds at the turn of the century. Corbett called him the fastest big man he had ever seen. I will see if I can find some quotes tonight from contemporary newspapers about Jim's overall athletic prowess.

Frazier, on the otherhand, was not a great all-around athlete. He performed poorly in the ABC Superstar athletic competition in 1973.

But that was because he doesn't know how to swim and yet had to compete in a swimming unit. That was a big reason why he didn't get many points.

Lennox Lewis also did poorly in the Superstars show, but he is head and shoulders above many guys listed in this thread would lose to Lewis.

On the other hand, Jason Sehorn won that competition all the time, but couldn't make it through a single NFL season without getting hurt. Can't help your team if you can high jump 6'5" but can't last a season without pulling a hamstring.

Oh, and did anyone remember Holyfield beating Carl Lewis in the 800 meter?

SaadOffTheDeck wrote:Boxers rarely ever did well on the Superstars. That doesn't mean Frazier had slower hands or feet than Jeffries in the ring, does it?

raylawpc wrote:

zojo, wrote:

raylawpc wrote: Jeffries was a great all-around athlete. He could do a six-foot high jump (standing), and ran the 100-yard dash in just over 10 seconds - a remarkable feat for a man 6'2" and 215 pounds at the turn of the century. Corbett called him the fastest big man he had ever seen. I will see if I can find some quotes tonight from contemporary newspapers about Jim's overall athletic prowess.

Frazier, on the otherhand, was not a great all-around athlete. He performed poorly in the ABC Superstar athletic competition in 1973.

But that was because he doesn't know how to swim and yet had to compete in a swimming unit. That was a big reason why he didn't get many points.

Lennox Lewis also did poorly in the Superstars show, but he is head and shoulders above many guys listed in this thread would lose to Lewis.

On the other hand, Jason Sehorn won that competition all the time, but couldn't make it through a single NFL season without getting hurt. Can't help your team if you can high jump 6'5" but can't last a season without pulling a hamstring.

Oh, and did anyone remember Holyfield beating Carl Lewis in the 800 meter?

Zojo, my friend Saad wrote that "there is a pretty significant athletic difference in Joe's favor." One can be a great boxer and not a great all-around athlete. As an athlete, the record indicates that Jeffries was a great all-around athlete, whereas Frazier was not. (Frazier failed to win, place or show in a single event in the Superstars competition, as I recall.) There is little doubt that both Frazier and Jeffries are all-time great heavyweight champions, but if you are making your judgment purely on athleticism, then I think Jeffries has to get the nod.

zojo, wrote:

raylawpc wrote:

zojo, wrote: But that was because he doesn't know how to swim and yet had to compete in a swimming unit. That was a big reason why he didn't get many points.

Lennox Lewis also did poorly in the Superstars show, but he is head and shoulders above many guys listed in this thread would lose to Lewis.

On the other hand, Jason Sehorn won that competition all the time, but couldn't make it through a single NFL season without getting hurt. Can't help your team if you can high jump 6'5" but can't last a season without pulling a hamstring.

Oh, and did anyone remember Holyfield beating Carl Lewis in the 800 meter?

Zojo, my friend Saad wrote that "there is a pretty significant athletic difference in Joe's favor." One can be a great boxer and not a great all-around athlete. As an athlete, the record indicates that Jeffries was a great all-around athlete, whereas Frazier was not. (Frazier failed to win, place or show in a single event in the Superstars competition, as I recall.) There is little doubt that both Frazier and Jeffries are all-time great heavyweight champions, but if you are making your judgment purely on athleticism, then I think Jeffries has to get the nod.

My point had nothing to do with how athletic Joe is. Rather, my point was that he didn't do well on Superstars in part because he doesn't know how to swim. That was the whole point I was trying to make. I was not comparing him to another boxer. Just stating that he can't swim and therefore did not get many points on a TV show.