BoxRec

dempseyfire wrote:Liston destroys any pressure fighter who comes right at him, including my beloved Dempsey and including Joe Frazier.

Including Tyson?

SaadOffTheDeck wrote:

yancey wrote:

SaadOffTheDeck wrote:
It's a horrible style match up for frazier. All you are saying is he takes his heart. That's easier said than done. Sonny was a tough dude.

Hey, you are starting to convince me. Keep at it.

He had to have been tough to quit on his stool in Miami as the freaking heavyweight champion of the freaking world and actually get up from that awe-inspiring punch in Lewiston.

Yeah, that was definitely a prime Liston. He won a fight with a broken jaw if memory serves me right. Joe "quit" on his stool too. Since when does losing to Ali make you a joke?

No, he lost the broken jaw fight. It was in 1954 against Marty Marshall. Liston lost on an 8-round split decision. It was his only loss before he lost the title to Cassius Clay in 1964.

Liston Could spark Joe, it's possible. I just think Frazier would totaly surprise Liston with his tenacity, body shots and endurance. I don't see this as a terrible matchup for Joe. That's giving too much attention to the Foreman fights where vision may have been part of the issue.

This is Sort of like defining Marciano by his "0".

The Foreman fights aren't why I think it's a bad matchup. It's the blend of his jab and power.

yancey wrote:

SaadOffTheDeck wrote:

yancey wrote:
10-20% is ridiculous.

Like I said, this is a dangerous fight early on for Joe, but I think heart prevails.

It's a horrible style match up for frazier. All you are saying is he takes his heart. That's easier said than done. Sonny was a tough dude.

Hey, you are starting to convince me. Keep at it.

He had to have been tough to quit on his stool in Miami as the freaking heavyweight champion of the freaking world and actually get up from that awe-inspiring punch in Lewiston.

Anyone who thinks that Liston lacked heart needs to watch the films of his fights with Cleveland Williams.

I wonder if Frazier and Liston had ever met?
Especially in Philadelphia in the early 1960's.
Liston's trainer Willie Reddish was from Phildadelphia and
training boxers at a gym there,when Liston was sent there to be trained by him in the late 1950's.
I think Liston may have left Philadelphia for Denver around the time
Frazier started to take up boxing.

Rocky Balboa wrote:

dempseyfire wrote:Liston destroys any pressure fighter who comes right at him, including my beloved Dempsey and including Joe Frazier.

Including Tyson?

Yep.

Ray - spot-on with your last post.

I voted for Liston. I think his better boxing skills would give him the advantage. Frazier is a live underdog though.

As for Tyson/Liston I like Tyson in the first six rounds, if the fight goes the distance which I doubt then the advantage is on Liston.

yancey wrote:

Goodnight, Irene wrote:Liston, hands down.

Hands may be down, but votes are currently running 90% in the other direction.

Gettin' miiiiighty close, Yance

It's the opposite of your prediction for the fight. Frazier almost had Liston gone in the voting early, but now he is fading as Liston comes on strong...

Goodnight, Irene wrote:

yancey wrote:

Goodnight, Irene wrote:Liston, hands down.

Hands may be down, but votes are currently running 90% in the other direction.

Gettin' miiiiighty close, Yance

It's the opposite of your prediction for the fight. Frazier almost had Liston gone in the voting early, but now he is fading as Liston comes on strong...

The voting is now 50/50.

GI is buying votes, I reckon.

As Dunphy once put it..."Sonny knows how to pour it on!"

Here are some of Sonny Liston's thoughts about fightin Frazier,quoted after defeating
Bill McMurrary in Reno,March 1968.
"Joe Frazier will win the title,and I'll beat him.
I wont have to chase him.
It'll be like shootin' fish in a barrel".

I also remember reading a newspaper article from 1967,were Ali said he thought if Liston
would be able to enter the box off tournament ,Sonny Liston would win the tournament(which was later won by Jimmy Ellis)

Brutu wrote:Here are some of Sonny Liston's thoughts about fightin Frazier,quoted after defeating
Bill McMurrary in Reno,March 1968.
"Joe Frazier will win the title,and I'll beat him.
I wont have to chase him.
It'll be like shootin' fish in a barrel".

Was this before or after Leotis Martin knocked the crap out of Sonny?

Frazier would've beaten Liston at that stage, IMO --- too busy, & too hungry.

You know what, though? The Liston of 1958-60 would've beaten the Frazier of 1976, too, for all it's worth.

If you watch the tape of Frazier-Bonavena I in 1966.
You will see both Willie Reddish and Milt Bailey as seconds
in Fraziers corner helping Yank Durham.
Either Liston dismissed them after Lewiston Maine or they left Liston.
Only Joe Polino stayed with Liston when he went over to Sweden,
then when Liston signed with Dick Sadler in late 1967,Polino was gone.

Brutu wrote:Here are some of Sonny Liston's thoughts about fightin Frazier,quoted after defeating
Bill McMurrary in Reno,March 1968.
"Joe Frazier will win the title,and I'll beat him.
I wont have to chase him.
It'll be like shootin' fish in a barrel".

Frazier would have beaten Liston around the time Sonny made those comments!

Liston by stoppage inside 7. His jab, power an killer instinct gets the job done

A Liston vrs Frazier fight would have been similiar to this.
Liston was only 2 inches taller but had 11 inches in reach
over Frazier.(84 inches to 73 inches).



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tY24J3dtoXY

Brutu wrote:A Liston vrs Frazier fight would have been similiar to this.
Liston was only 2 inches taller but had 11 inches in reach
over Frazier.(84 inches to 73 inches).



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tY24J3dtoXY

Scrap Iron Johnson couldn't do it, so Smokin' Joe Frazier couldn't either, right?

Uh, no.

Actually Joe Frazier states in his autobiography SMOKIN JOE,that his own reach was only
seveny-one inches,
but he says also that Listons reach was "ninety-four inches"(p 36).
If my math is correct that a 23 inch difference in reach.

Scrapiron Johnson was 5 ft 9(reach not listed).
But he gave Frazier(5"11.5)a tough 10 round decision in 1967.

To me this is an easy pick. Liston by KO within the first 5 rounds. Liston was the most feared big puncher of the late 50's and early 60's. KO'd Patterson twice in the first round. KO'd Big Cat Williams twice in the first 3 rounds. Ali did the same confidence-wise to Liston as he did to Foreman, Imo. Frazier would have done about as well as he did against Foreman. Anyone remember how that went? :surprised:

Liston in the lead, Yance. Sanity is restored.

Goodnight, Irene wrote:Liston in the lead, Yance. Sanity is restored.

GI has 'em coming out of the woodwork to vote for Sonny.

Could have been a Chicago politician.