So, Where is David Haye?

[markp]

Hayes reputation is going down the toilet and his silence isnt helping - that being said if one of the fights does happen then nobody will care about whats being said about Haye right now.

Agreed. But it doesn't look like Haye wants to fight a Klitschko. I bet he is regretting all his smack talk now, it is making him look like a coward.

[Coco]

Hayes reputation is going down the toilet and his silence isnt helping - that being said if one of the fights does happen then nobody will care about whats being said about Haye right now.

Agreed. But it doesn't look like Haye wants to fight a Klitschko. I bet he is regretting all his smack talk now, it is making him look like a coward.

Are you blokes nuts or something?
And in regard to KG's post it is showing Holyfields opponents in his transition to heavyweight before he won the title, I can only presume you guys take that as evidence of Holyfields blatent fear!!!!
For the record you guys need to understand the business of boxing, you can't and don't make the biggest fight out there with a phonecall and a 5 minute chat.
Such negotiations are very long winded and cloak and dagger, the Klits are very difficult to deal with, i'm sure Haye is just trying to get a reasonable deal. He is proved he is willing to take chump change for opportunity so I doubt he is holding out for unreasonable demands.
I guess you think he is ducking Audley and running scared huh!

[Spud]

I will state again - I simply do not understand the criticisms of David Haye.

With regards to the comments concerning whether he cares about the fans or not - that is b*llocks - he cares just as much as any other boxer I know.

I could go into a rant but wont - I will leave a thought - yes boxing is a sport where the fans want to be entertained by the best fighters competing against each other - however for the very very small minority who reach the top its also a fine balance in entertaining the fans as well as maximising the earning potential so the boxer can live a decent life after he has left the sport.

If Haye eventually beats the people we want him to box - I have very little doubts we will then be discussing him as one of the very best boxers to come out of the UK - yes he has to beat the best - and in my opinion he has done a bloody good job so far.

[Srebmun]

KG, Coco & Spud - spot on - anyone with any kind of sense understands this too.

[dondada]

There are two main problems re a way forward and big fights for Haye.

1. The fractured nature of promotional interests/options. It's a mess.

2. Even the most hardened and experienced of negotiators says Adam Booth is a complete and utter nightmare to deal with. This isn't necessarily a criticism - he'll do what's best for his man. It just appears that everything is much more difficult than it would normally be.

[Spud]

2. Even the most hardened and experienced of negotiators says Adam Booth is a complete and utter nightmare to deal with. This isn't necessarily a criticism - he'll do what's best for his man. It just appears that everything is much more difficult than it would normally be.

I completely agree with you on this - if it was up to David Haye other fights would have taken place - Adam Booth has to be the most difficult person to deal with in World Boxing in my view - he will go out of his way to get the very best deal for his fighter and whats more he has the balls to walk away from a deal if it aint right for his team.

Not a criticism - as I remain convinced if it were not for Adam Booth - David Haye would not be where he is today.

I remember having a number of conversations with Booth in the early days when I used to lambast Haye on these websites - Booth was completely and utterly consistent with where David Haye was going in his career and the approach to meet those ambitions has never once waivered - As much as Booth is a nightmare to deal with - you simply have to admire him as he is the main force behind the success and the money Haye has earned and trust me on this he will earn millions more.

[Autobarn]

Hayes reputation is going down the toilet and his silence isnt helping .

This statement sums up everything i hate about boxing forums

Haye cleans up at cruiser, beats a top 15 fighter, takes a world title from a 7ft, 300 pound bloke, full-fills his mandatory and he reputation goes down the toilet?


just fcuk off the lot of you, boxing doesnt deserve cretins like you


oh, just for reference

1990-06-01 210 Seamus McDonagh 211¾ 19-1-1

Convention Hall, Atlantic City, New Jersey, United States W TKO 4 12

~ time: 0:44 | referee: Joe Cortez ~
~ WBC Continental Americas heavyweight title ~



1989-11-04 212 Alex Stewart 213 24-0-0

Trump Plaza Hotel, Atlantic City, New Jersey, United States W TKO 8 12

~ time: 2:51 | referee: Tony Perez ~
~ WBC Continental Americas heavyweight title ~



1989-07-15 207 Adilson Rodrigues 221 35-2-0

Caesars Tahoe, Stateline, Nevada, United States W KO 2 12

~ time: 1:29 | referee: Mills Lane ~
~ WBC Continental Americas heavyweight title ~



1989-03-11 208 Michael Dokes 225 37-1-2

Caesars Palace, Las Vegas, Nevada, United States W TKO 10 12

~ time: 1:41 | referee: Richard Steele | judge: Dalby Shirley | judge: Dave Moretti | judge: Paul Smith ~
~ WBC Continental Americas heavyweight title ~



1988-12-09 210 Pinklon Thomas 222 29-2-1

Convention Hall, Atlantic City, New Jersey, United States W RTD 7 10

~ time: 3:00 | referee: Tony Perez | judge: Rocky Castellani 70-60 | judge: Eugene Grant 69-63 | judge: Frank Brunette 70-61 ~



1988-07-16 202 James Tillis 210 38-13-1

Caesars Tahoe, Stateline, Nevada, United States W RTD 5 10

do you see?

cretins

it's a fair point - thomas couldn't even lift his arms up, for instance - but dokes was very dangerous, gave holyfield an epic war and was an ex title holder who earned ring mag's "comeback of the year" around 1988. of course, after that struggle, evander had no chance to beat mike tyson...

i am finding the haye threads very frustrating. i think he'll have a big fight next year. he probably doesn't care what ppl are saying because with his two sky box office / WBA heavyweight title fights, he'll be earning more than ever (considering he was a cruiserweight, not a lucrative weight traditionally). david haye is not going to retire and need a benefit night, for instance.

he's not the finished article yet so i would like to see him get another defence of the WBA title first. but sadly he doesn't seem to know when to shut up, and when to say something. many ppl come on forums to vent their frustrations, so he's giving plenty of ppl the reason to spew vile, to laud the klitschko brothers, etc etc.

[watson748]

There are two sides to this story as far as I can see it. Those who follow, support and know whats involved with negotiations in boxing and those casual fans who just heard Haye call out both Klits and then then basically (in their eyes) ran away from them.

I like Haye, I like his style and I know that he has always gone for the biggest, baddest guy in the division (usually too early ) that he can get his hands on. So with that track record he has earned the right to get a pass and not be called a coward in this circumstance. However, he and Booth have other considerations to deal with now that they didn't have before...a bigger fan base which includes the less knowledgable. The anger is I believe purely from this section of the fan base due to them taking Hayes PR stunts too personally. Him chasing down Wlad at the airport and wearing the infamous T-shirt had suddenly got everybody excited again about the HW division but just as suddenly they found out that he (in their eyes) subsequently ran away from the two fights. You can't call out both guys in that manner and rile everyone up into an excited frenzy then act as if nothing has happened. Its like baiting and teasing a Rottweiler in its cage and then wondering why it wants to bite you when you release it. I know there are complicated negotiations and monetary deals etc but there are also politics involved. Hatton understood the importance of the fan base and how to court them, subsequently he had a massive following yet guys with masses of talent but no courting skills like FMJ, don't. A huge fan base is worth millions and is therefore worth nurturing and preserving, not taking for granted or treating like sh*t. Haye could really learn a lot from Hatton and if he and Booth still want to play everything close to their chest and keep quiet like they have always done, it is going to look elitist to their new found fans (as it clearly is). They run the risk of losing these fans and their ppv numbers which are of course important for negotiating. I already know several casual fans who have either just lost interest in Haye since Valuev or would now just look for a stream.

Haye and Booth can not afford to have the same old fashioned attitude they have always had towards negotiations or keeping the public informed. Not now, not with their new fan base.

[WelshDevil]

Well said Watson. Frank Maloney has echoed your comments.

Maloney warns Haye not to get left behind
ESPN staff

Frank Maloney has warned David Haye he risks becoming boxing's forgotten man by staying out of the public eye.

Haye claimed the WBA heavyweight title in November, capturing the attention of a nation with a skilled performance against the gigantic Nikolai Valuev. He then followed that up with his mandatory defence against John Ruiz in April, stopping Ruiz in the ninth round.

However, in the past three months Haye has taken a backseat whilst Audley Harrison works the publicity machine, seemingly talking his way into a showdown with Haye later this year. Once more the Klitschko brothers have eluded The Hayemaker, and Maloney insists there is a need to cash in while the Brit is at the top of the sport.

"If I was still representing David, being a young fighter I would have cashed in a bit quicker and made him busier," said Maloney. "He's a breath of fresh air for the heavyweight division and the media like him, but sometimes when you stay out of sight you get forgotten a bit.

"You can't fault what he's done. No-one expected him to win the world heavyweight title and he's made one defence. Three fights a year is good for a heavyweight. That's what we aimed for with Lennox Lewis.

"But it's also about staying in the public eye. If I was David I'd be banging the drum and making sure I was in the papers for the right reasons. I'm not saying he's lazy, but a champion has to be visible and talk up the sport."

[FLINT ISLAND]

Hayes reputation is going down the toilet and his silence isnt helping - that being said if one of the fights does happen then nobody will care about whats being said about Haye right now.

Agreed. But it doesn't look like Haye wants to fight a Klitschko. I bet he is regretting all his smack talk now, it is making him look like a coward.

Are you blokes nuts or something?
And in regard to KG's post it is showing Holyfields opponents in his transition to heavyweight before he won the title, I can only presume you guys take that as evidence of Holyfields blatent fear!!!!
For the record you guys need to understand the business of boxing, you can't and don't make the biggest fight out there with a phonecall and a 5 minute chat.
Such negotiations are very long winded and cloak and dagger, the Klits are very difficult to deal with, i'm sure Haye is just trying to get a reasonable deal. He is proved he is willing to take chump change for opportunity so I doubt he is holding out for unreasonable demands.
I guess you think he is ducking Audley and running scared huh!

Yeah I knw what your saying Coco

But he had a deal with Wlad before - and pulled out.

Didnt he have a deal with Vitali before and pulled out ?

Haye was going to get well paid whatever.

Ok - so probaly Wlad will get the lions share of the Purse = but thats the way it probaly should be.


The bottom line is - both Klitshckos have comitted to fighting David Haye no problem - the stalling and pull outs of fights - is all coming from him.

[Coco]

He wasn't getting well paid, he was only getting the Setanta cut which was defunct so he would have had to fight for free.
Now he has a version of the world title he is in a position to drive a better bargain

[WelshDevil]

He wasn't getting well paid, he was only getting the Setanta cut which was defunct so he would have had to fight for free.
Now he has a version of the world title he is in a position to drive a better bargain

Very true. Setanta going bust robbed us of Haye sparking out Wlad.

[Autobarn]

let's not forget though, there is a potentially excellent heavyweight title fight, when wlad defends vs alexander povetkin in november. this will be worth seeing.

we don't necessarily need haye for heavyweight excitement...

[FLINT ISLAND]

He wasn't getting well paid, he was only getting the Setanta cut which was defunct so he would have had to fight for free.
Now he has a version of the world title he is in a position to drive a better bargain

I thought it had nothing to do with Setanta.

I thought he didnt fight Wlad because of a bad back ;;-)

[WelshDevil]

let's not forget though, there is a potentially excellent heavyweight title fight, when wlad defends vs alexander povetkin in november. this will be worth seeing.

we don't necessarily need haye for heavyweight excitement...

Should be a very good fight. I've followed Povetkin's career since he made his debut and I think he has the style to put up a solid challenge.

[FLINT ISLAND]

let's not forget though, there is a potentially excellent heavyweight title fight, when wlad defends vs alexander povetkin in november. this will be worth seeing.

we don't necessarily need haye for heavyweight excitement...

exactly.

Wlad and Vitali should just forget about Haye

Haye chased them

Now it seems that Haye wants them chasing him

Forget that

Wlad and Vitali should just let their domination continue

And Haye can continue defending his portion of the title against whoever.

Boring - but true.

All those who believed Haye in his hunger and ambition to fight the Klitshckos - sorry but you have been duped - I share in your disappointment.

The reality is boxing is a business - and Haye was always just going to be smart about things

(and smart means - not getting yourself knocked out in your first few fights at heavy against a Klitshcko - espcially when you have a WBA belt you can milk and market to the British public and make millions off without pushing for dangerous unifcations against fellow champions who would be favored to beat you)

[charlieb]

Some of the excuses being made in this thread on Haye's behalf are a little sickly. We're fans, not business assosiates. It doesn't matter whether or not we understand the ins' and outs' of the negotiation process. We shouldn't have to!

If Haye says he's going to take on the Klitschkos, the honus is on him, not us, to excuse a deal he didn't deem frugal enough!

Where the hell is he?? Why hasn't he made a statement either way?

Stop trying to paint Haye as a maverick. He isn't a maverick, he's a business man who promised the earth and we're the customer awating delivery.

[Spud]

Some of the excuses being made in this thread on Haye's behalf are a little sickly. We're fans, not business assosiates. It doesn't matter whether or not we understand the ins' and outs' of the negotiation process. We shouldn't have to!

A little sickly is yet another exageration - its called an opinion - as you have stated yours - others have disagreed. With regards to your comments concerning the negoitiation process - that is a fundamental part of the sport whether you like it or not - negoitiations and boxing politics make up an awful lot of what goes on in the sport but naturally as a boxing fan you would already know that would'nt you??

If Haye says he's going to take on the Klitschkos, the honus is on him, not us, to excuse a deal he didn't deem frugal enough!

I felt like bursting into tears at your emotional clap trap line - no one has stated the onus is on the fans - I think if you read through the thread - you will see what is being stated is David Haye and his team will let us know when he is ready to fight again - and with regards to your comments concerning "The Klitschko's" - again if you were a proper boxing fan you would know how the sport works - its called "hype" - sometimes fighters come out with some verbal here and there to get themselves noticed - sometimes they use hype to make a fight etc etc etc - David Haye's PR & hype machine has worked very well indeed - he has got exactly what he wanted people talking about him throughout the world of boxing - whether its negative or positive - people are discussing Haye and whether you or others like it or not he is able to name his price and he is able to box and make announcements exactly when he wants - whether that is arrogance or not - its a simple FACT - people are discussing David Haye.

Where the hell is he?? Why hasn't he made a statement either way?

blah blah blah blah - David Haye owes no one anything at all - he will make a statement when he is good and ready.

Stop trying to paint Haye as a maverick. He isn't a maverick, he's a business man who promised the earth and we're the customer awating delivery.

It is you who should stop putting words into peoples mouths - I have certainly not painted David Haye as some form of maverick - and after reading through this thread I certainly cannot see where anyone else has either - the simple facts are despite very few people giving him the slightest chance even in the Cruiserweight Division he has beaten the best there and is now the WBA Heavyweight Champion Of The World - what part of that FACT do you not understand - David Haye has brightened up an otherwise extremely dull and rather boring division just when we were all about to fall about in a sleepy haze.

If you are correct in that Haye is a businessman then he is playing his cards completely correctly in that he is waiting for entirely the correct opportunity to maximise his earning potential and good luck to him - judging on your rather inadequate knowledge of how the sport works - if it were left up to you I seriously wonder where David Haye would be - he would probably have a larger bank overdraft than all of us put together.

David Haye has done very well - and given a little patience from the boxing fans he will prove he can do even better.

[charlieb]

Some of the excuses being made in this thread on Haye's behalf are a little sickly. We're fans, not business assosiates. It doesn't matter whether or not we understand the ins' and outs' of the negotiation process. We shouldn't have to!

A little sickly is yet another exageration - its called an opinion - as you have stated yours - others have disagreed. With regards to your comments concerning the negoitiation process - that is a fundamental part of the sport whether you like it or not - negoitiations and boxing politics make up an awful lot of what goes on in the sport but naturally as a boxing fan you would already know that would'nt you??

If Haye says he's going to take on the Klitschkos, the honus is on him, not us, to excuse a deal he didn't deem frugal enough!

I felt like bursting into tears at your emotional clap trap line - no one has stated the onus is on the fans - I think if you read through the thread - you will see what is being stated is David Haye and his team will let us know when he is ready to fight again - and with regards to your comments concerning "The Klitschko's" - again if you were a proper boxing fan you would know how the sport works - its called "hype" - sometimes fighters come out with some verbal here and there to get themselves noticed - sometimes they use hype to make a fight etc etc etc - David Haye's PR & hype machine has worked very well indeed - he has got exactly what he wanted people talking about him throughout the world of boxing - whether its negative or positive - people are discussing Haye and whether you or others like it or not he is able to name his price and he is able to box and make announcements exactly when he wants - whether that is arrogance or not - its a simple FACT - people are discussing David Haye.

Where the hell is he?? Why hasn't he made a statement either way?

blah blah blah blah - David Haye owes no one anything at all - he will make a statement when he is good and ready.

Stop trying to paint Haye as a maverick. He isn't a maverick, he's a business man who promised the earth and we're the customer awating delivery.

It is you who should stop putting words into peoples mouths - I have certainly not painted David Haye as some form of maverick - and after reading through this thread I certainly cannot see where anyone else has either - the simple facts are despite very few people giving him the slightest chance even in the Cruiserweight Division he has beaten the best there and is now the WBA Heavyweight Champion Of The World - what part of that FACT do you not understand - David Haye has brightened up an otherwise extremely dull and rather boring division just when we were all about to fall about in a sleepy haze.

If you are correct in that Haye is a businessman then he is playing his cards completely correctly in that he is waiting for entirely the correct opportunity to maximise his earning potential and good luck to him - judging on your rather inadequate knowledge of how the sport works - if it were left up to you I seriously wonder where David Haye would be - he would probably have a larger bank overdraft than all of us put together.

David Haye has done very well - and given a little patience from the boxing fans he will prove he can do even better.

What the hell are you going on about spudly?

[Spud]

Answering your post young man - its nice to see you have absolutely no comeback to what I have written other than a patronising reply - the normal response of someone who has no comeback whatsoever.

It seems I might be on one of those rare occasions correct in that you know squat about boxing.

[DavidPayne]

Too true Tel.

[FLINT ISLAND]

Some of the excuses being made in this thread on Haye's behalf are a little sickly. We're fans, not business assosiates. It doesn't matter whether or not we understand the ins' and outs' of the negotiation process. We shouldn't have to!
If Haye says he's going to take on the Klitschkos, the honus is on him, not us, to excuse a deal he didn't deem frugal enough!
Where the hell is he?? Why hasn't he made a statement either way?

Stop trying to paint Haye as a maverick. He isn't a maverick, he's a business man who promised the earth and we're the customer awating delivery.

Exactly.

The noises Haye made - said anyone - it wasnt about money or location.

He would fight anyone anywhere - for whatever purse he could get.

Complete bollocks of course.

People believed it because he went to France to KO Mormeck

Which is only a ferry across the sea - and he was the challenger - thats the way it should be

What did everyone expect - Mormeck to come to london to defend - why should he ?

So Haye went to The Champions City and beat him.

But now its about money and locations and who gets the TV money, etc, etc, ,etc

In other words - Haye is a sell out.

A subtle way of wriggling out of a fight is just to price yourself out at the bargaining table.

If you really want to fight - if you are really hungry for a fight - a chance to win the other titles and prove your number 1 - you make scarfices and be willing to take the lesser end of things.

Enzo Maccarenelli did it against Haye - he accepted alot less money - and allowed Haye the lions share of the purse - more than TWICE what Maccarenelli was paid because Enzo wanted the fight and the chances to win the titles.

Enzo werent good enough - Haye knocked him out - but the point is he was hungry for the chance.

So now Haye is in the postion where he should be willing to take well less than HALF the purse and fight - even in Germany.

But alas - Haye is not so keen now it seems as he was in 2008.

[charlieb]

A little sickly is yet another exageration - its called an opinion - as you have stated yours - others have disagreed.

Sickly's a clement label for some of the apologetic guff that's been thrown around on Haye's behalf by british fans (solely), perhaps not as much in this thread as others, granted.

With regards to your comments concerning the negoitiation process - that is a fundamental part of the sport whether you like it or not - negoitiations and boxing politics make up an awful lot of what goes on in the sport but naturally as a boxing fan you would already know that would'nt you??

It's been alleged that Haye turned down a 50/50 split to fight Wlad. It's not the job of his fans to deny such an outlandish claim, it's down to Haye and his PR. That was my point, what on earth was your's in response?

I felt like bursting into tears at your emotional clap trap line - no one has stated the onus is on the fans - I think if you read through the thread - you will see what is being stated is David Haye and his team will let us know when he is ready to fight again - and with regards to your comments concerning "The Klitschko's" - again if you were a proper boxing fan you would know how the sport works - its called "hype" - sometimes fighters come out with some verbal here and there to get themselves noticed - sometimes they use hype to make a fight etc etc etc - David Haye's PR & hype machine has worked very well indeed - he has got exactly what he wanted people talking about him throughout the world of boxing - whether its negative or positive - people are discussing Haye and whether you or others like it or not he is able to name his price and he is able to box and make announcements exactly when he wants - whether that is arrogance or not - its a simple FACT - people are discussing David Haye.

You keep on stating the bloody obvious. Blanketing the ins' and outs' of the situation that lead to the backlash which has split even the brit contingent under the all-encompassing banner of 'hype' is bollocks quite frankly.

blah blah blah blah - David Haye owes no one anything at all - he will make a statement when he is good and ready.

Well la-di-dah! Of course he doesn't owe his fans anything, literally. We should all tow the line and keep a very british stiff upper lip, right?

It is you who should stop putting words into peoples mouths - I have certainly not painted David Haye as some form of maverick - and after reading through this thread I certainly cannot see where anyone else has either - the simple facts are despite very few people giving him the slightest chance even in the Cruiserweight Division he has beaten the best there and is now the WBA Heavyweight Champion Of The World - what part of that FACT do you not understand - David Haye has brightened up an otherwise extremely dull and rather boring division just when we were all about to fall about in a sleepy haze.

Maverick: One that refuses to abide by the dictates of or resists adherence to a group. By throwing out words like 'hype' and 'politics' in Haye's defence, you're making that implication. You're a good salesman spud, or should that be stooge?

If you are correct in that Haye is a businessman then he is playing his cards completely correctly in that he is waiting for entirely the correct opportunity to maximise his earning potential and good luck to him - judging on your rather inadequate knowledge of how the sport works - if it were left up to you I seriously wonder where David Haye would be - he would probably have a larger bank overdraft than all of us put together.

You're implying that I'd like to see Haye fight Wlad on Friday and Vitali on Saturday, for a bag of peanuts. Not the case, all I'm after is a little clarity.

David Haye has done very well - and given a little patience from the boxing fans he will prove he can do even better.

Absolutely. I have every faith in Haye, as a fighter.

Answering your post young man - its nice to see you have absolutely no comeback to what I have written other than a patronising reply - the normal response of someone who has no comeback whatsoever.

The reason I didn't reply in length initially was because my mommy always told me not to get into arguments with idiots as they'll always drag you down to their level and beat you with experience. Whoops!

[Coco]

Half the purse?? With everything in he will do well to get over 5% such is the Klits bargaining power

[FLINT ISLAND]

Half the purse?? With everything in he will do well to get over 5% such is the Klits bargaining power

Coco -will Yates be showing Haye s next fight - or will I have to go down Aspers to see it ? :P