BoxRec

Ambling Alp wrote:His name escapes me, but there was a welterweight who had 1 fight in 5 years becasue of eye problems and then beat one of the greatest middleweights of all-time in a fight that he was not supposed to have very little chance of winning. Granted the guy he beat was no Davey Moore or Samuel Peter, but still it was pretty impressive.

Until you factored in how slanted the negotiations for the fight were D

...Vitali's comeback was pretty decent to be fair...

Frank Bruno didn't do bad either

Willie Pep
Eder Jofre
Ray Robinson
Iran Barkley

Goodnight, Irene wrote:

Ambling Alp wrote:His name escapes me, but there was a welterweight who had 1 fight in 5 years becasue of eye problems and then beat one of the greatest middleweights of all-time in a fight that he was not supposed to have very little chance of winning. Granted the guy he beat was no Davey Moore or Samuel Peter, but still it was pretty impressive.

Until you factored in how slanted the negotiations for the fight were D

Oh right. The ring size, amount of rounds, the gloves. Funny how those things are never used as as an excuse in any other fight that is discussed here. Funny how little was said about these things before the fight.

Poor Marvin. Obviously someone put a gun to his head. What huge disadvantages he faced. Against a guy who had never fought at that weight before and had 1 fight in the last three years.

simon fox wrote:Frank Bruno didn't do bad either

Not much to come back from, though...it was a sucky first part to his career

Ambling Alp wrote:

Goodnight, Irene wrote:

Ambling Alp wrote:His name escapes me, but there was a welterweight who had 1 fight in 5 years becasue of eye problems and then beat one of the greatest middleweights of all-time in a fight that he was not supposed to have very little chance of winning. Granted the guy he beat was no Davey Moore or Samuel Peter, but still it was pretty impressive.

Until you factored in how slanted the negotiations for the fight were D

Oh right. The ring size, amount of rounds, the gloves. Funny how those things are never used as as an excuse in any other fight that is discussed here. Funny how little was said about these things before the fight.

Poor Marvin. Obviously someone put a gun to his head. What huge disadvantages he faced. Against a guy who had never fought at that weight before and had 1 fight in the last three years.

I would have thought our recent PM exchange on this matter would have you in on the fact my post was in jest

james j braddock
sammy fuentas
steve robinson

marvin hagler lost to marvin hagler. giving first two away by
insisting not to box southpaw ... weird idea. he did get leonard
under his skin ... as simple as that ...

man wrote:marvin hagler lost to marvin hagler. giving first two away by
insisting not to box southpaw ... weird idea. he did get leonard
under his skin ... as simple as that ...

I was watching Hagler-Mugabi the other day and Hagler turned southpaw in the first round or 2 agaist him as well.

Leonard's tactics in that fight drove me nuts, but like you said Hagler did it to himself.

i felt hagler simply did not prepare and adapt to leonard
the way he should. he just went foreward, got angry and
so forth. IMO he simply did not study leonard as intensively
as leonard did it the other way round. i think hagler could
have won the fight, had he have his own ego under better
control ... and he should have put a rematch clause in there
and get back three months later ...

being p.ssed by boxing just because he lost a decision ... just
another blow he did to himself ... simply too big ego ... in
a way quite childish ...

Goodnight, Irene wrote:

Ambling Alp wrote:

Goodnight, Irene wrote: Until you factored in how slanted the negotiations for the fight were D

Oh right. The ring size, amount of rounds, the gloves. Funny how those things are never used as as an excuse in any other fight that is discussed here. Funny how little was said about these things before the fight.

Poor Marvin. Obviously someone put a gun to his head. What huge disadvantages he faced. Against a guy who had never fought at that weight before and had 1 fight in the last three years.

I would have thought our recent PM exchange on this matter would have you in on the fact my post was in jest

Sorry, no I didn't realize that you were kidding. I guess maybe that I am so tired of people not giving Leonard his due and finding BS excuse for his opponents that I don't realize when people are joking. Notice that with the other fighter's comebacks people don't say that the other guy beat himself. However with Leonard's opponents it's always something. The other guy's tummy hurt, the other guy had a cut from an accidential headbutt that tainted the fight even though the cut did not affect his vision, and Hagler had all these disadvantages or he beat himself or whatever.

People just can't say something like "wow, for a welterweight who had been off for so long, it's hard to believe that he fought such a great fight". The hatred for Leonard on this forum seems to know no bounds.
No one else in the well more than 100 years of boxing did something this amazing, and all many people can do is come up with BS reasons that attempt to take away Leonard's achievement.

I don't consider myself a Leonard hater (I'm not sure I post on him enough for others to have a view on that subject, maybe, maybe not), but Benitez, well...we agree to disagree on that one.

No arguments about Hagler, or the rematch with Duran*.

*Though it remains a long-held fallacy Leonard was dominating Duran at the time of, "No Mas." He wasn't.

How bout Quirino Garcia?
http://boxrec.com/list_bouts.php?human_ ... &cat=boxer

Not a bad comeback for a guy who started 0-18

a little off-topic, but wlad-peter was a big comeback in the way
that wlad was hurt, knocked down, but didn't loose his mind
although he had this record of three weird kos against weaker
opponents than peter was ...

thehero55 wrote:How bout Quirino Garcia?
http://boxrec.com/list_bouts.php?human_ ... &cat=boxer

Not a bad comeback for a guy who started 0-18

wow! what happened? somebody told him to
punch back?

How about Frankie Duarte. His comeback was unbelievable.

Tony Zale's post war fighting could be considered as a bit of a comeback...

Edor Jofre (?) I believe his name was, had two excellent careers at different weights

Ambling Alp wrote:

Goodnight, Irene wrote:

Ambling Alp wrote: Oh right. The ring size, amount of rounds, the gloves. Funny how those things are never used as as an excuse in any other fight that is discussed here. Funny how little was said about these things before the fight.

Poor Marvin. Obviously someone put a gun to his head. What huge disadvantages he faced. Against a guy who had never fought at that weight before and had 1 fight in the last three years.

I would have thought our recent PM exchange on this matter would have you in on the fact my post was in jest

Sorry, no I didn't realize that you were kidding. I guess maybe that I am so tired of people not giving Leonard his due and finding BS excuse for his opponents that I don't realize when people are joking. Notice that with the other fighter's comebacks people don't say that the other guy beat himself. However with Leonard's opponents it's always something. The other guy's tummy hurt, the other guy had a cut from an accidential headbutt that tainted the fight even though the cut did not affect his vision, and Hagler had all these disadvantages or he beat himself or whatever.

People just can't say something like "wow, for a welterweight who had been off for so long, it's hard to believe that he fought such a great fight". The hatred for Leonard on this forum seems to know no bounds.
No one else in the well more than 100 years of boxing did something this amazing, and all many people can do is come up with BS reasons that attempt to take away Leonard's achievement.

I'll say it, "wow, for a welterweight who had been off for so long, it's hard to believe that he fought such a great fight." However, I still think Hagler should have gotten the decision. But, that said, it was an amazing fight by Leonard under the circumstances. I expected Hagler to bomb him out in about 5 rounds.