BoxRec

Wrists wrote:Sorry mate - not for a tenner.

Stick to BM at approx £4 quid which to be fair is the most i will pay for a mag and only cos BM is quality.

Haye needs to get his arse into gear soon though.

Audley
Adamek
Wlad
American
Vitali

Then good night

He's got to fight Solis at some point!

Deserter wrote:

Spud wrote:As I have stated my criticism is the price - £9.99 - whilst I scrapped together the money mainly because of a picture of me in it - the magazine is top quality - I just fear "Joe Public" will put it back on the shelf because of the price and that will be a shame as its a top quality read.

The bookazine will 'die' on the shelves due to the price point and the self-indulgent nature of the product. I know how much it costs to get listings in Smiths and this, coupled with the high paper quality and production values, mean it will be a clear loss-maker for Hayemaker.
I'm a genuine fan of Haye and a 'hardcore' boxing fan yet even I couldn't even come remotely close to parting with the cash for this, so I'm struggling to see who actually would. You're going to be talking about copy sales in the hundreds rather than thousands I suspect.
Unlike you Spud I was disappointed by the product - it seemed to be just following Rio Ferdinand's template of having his own product and lacked a coherent vision or content flow. They've suffered through a DIY attitude rather than getting a professional publisher involved.
I presume that Team Haye view it as a marketing tool rather than a revenue generator, but if that's your goal then you have to have a price point that makes it accessible to the potential audience.

Deserter,

I am glad we are debating the validity of the product - I think your "self indulgent" phrase is harsh - come on pal the first edition was always going to be a bit "me, me and me" - yes whilst it is a tadge self indulgent, surely you will agree to take on the established Boxing News or Boxing Monthly especially at the price it is being marketted would have been even more foolhardy.

I completely agree with your comments concerning the price - way over the top for Joe Public - but then the quality of the actual publication is rather good in comparison to the normal "flimsy paper type" product.

With regards to your comment concerning the content - I will say again I thoroughly enjoyed it - Mr Deserter you work in the industry and thus "you thinking" types running your critical eye over things are going to be rather more harsh - where as
thinking it from Joe Public type of view I honestly think they have got things right.

But again I completely concede where they have got it wrong is the price - and I suspect the "exclusivity" to WH Smiths - although a top outlet was more of deal on they brought more numbers than other outlets were prepared to and might have even covered the costs etc etc.

Spud wrote:

Deserter wrote:

Spud wrote:As I have stated my criticism is the price - £9.99 - whilst I scrapped together the money mainly because of a picture of me in it - the magazine is top quality - I just fear "Joe Public" will put it back on the shelf because of the price and that will be a shame as its a top quality read.

The bookazine will 'die' on the shelves due to the price point and the self-indulgent nature of the product. I know how much it costs to get listings in Smiths and this, coupled with the high paper quality and production values, mean it will be a clear loss-maker for Hayemaker.
I'm a genuine fan of Haye and a 'hardcore' boxing fan yet even I couldn't even come remotely close to parting with the cash for this, so I'm struggling to see who actually would. You're going to be talking about copy sales in the hundreds rather than thousands I suspect.
Unlike you Spud I was disappointed by the product - it seemed to be just following Rio Ferdinand's template of having his own product and lacked a coherent vision or content flow. They've suffered through a DIY attitude rather than getting a professional publisher involved.
I presume that Team Haye view it as a marketing tool rather than a revenue generator, but if that's your goal then you have to have a price point that makes it accessible to the potential audience.

Deserter,

I am glad we are debating the validity of the product - I think your "self indulgent" phrase is harsh - come on pal the first edition was always going to be a bit "me, me and me" - yes whilst it is a tadge self indulgent, surely you will agree to take on the established Boxing News or Boxing Monthly especially at the price it is being marketted would have been even more foolhardy.

I completely agree with your comments concerning the price - way over the top for Joe Public - but then the quality of the actual publication is rather good in comparison to the normal "flimsy paper type" product.

With regards to your comment concerning the content - I will say again I thoroughly enjoyed it - Mr Deserter you work in the industry and thus "you thinking" types running your critical eye over things are going to be rather more harsh - where as
thinking it from Joe Public type of view I honestly think they have got things right.

But again I completely concede where they have got it wrong is the price - and I suspect the "exclusivity" to WH Smiths - although a top outlet was more of deal on they brought more numbers than other outlets were prepared to and might have even covered the costs etc etc.

Its of the same format as Boxing News' commerative 100 year edition, that was £!2.99 wasn't it?

Spud wrote:I suspect the "exclusivity" to WH Smiths - although a top outlet was more of deal on they brought more numbers than other outlets were prepared to and might have even covered the costs etc etc.

Smiths charge publishers to sell their magazines Spud, not the other way round. And if you're a new publisher with no track record then trust me you have to pay through the nose to secure those listings. You also pay a premium for 'hot spots' such as the 'recommended reads' you see as a customer, and I've been in at least two Smiths stores where the Haye product is stocked in such a fashion so they will have had to spend significant sums on their distribution and given the price point and the niche nature of the product I can't envsisage circumstances where they'll be able to generate a return.
As for the content, I agree it's partly subjective, and that I'm liable to be more critical than most because of my 'insider knowledge', but it's simply that I'm fed up with people thinking publishing is just writing. It's weird, but there are certain businesses that anyone thinks they can do even though the evidence points to the opposite - restaurants, clubs, bars, magazines etc. Whereas there are other professions where people are happy to accept the experts actually do know better.
In this case, having a decent, young writer in the form of Elliott doesn't mean you don't have to have proper marketing, circulation and ad sales strategies, not to mention an experienced editor who can deliver on the objectives of the title.
The irony is that I'm a real Haye believer and some of his PR moves are right on the money - I bet he employs a good PR and/or agent to secure things like chat show spots and the cover of GQ, so why doesn't he and his team learn from that and apply the same approach to publishing and get 'experts' on board to do it for him?
Rant over

bookazine

ovepriced magazine were haye done some reporting

if he does 20 one arm press up's i'll buy one.

Deserter wrote:

Spud wrote:I suspect the "exclusivity" to WH Smiths - although a top outlet was more of deal on they brought more numbers than other outlets were prepared to and might have even covered the costs etc etc.

Smiths charge publishers to sell their magazines Spud, not the other way round. And if you're a new publisher with no track record then trust me you have to pay through the nose to secure those listings. You also pay a premium for 'hot spots' such as the 'recommended reads' you see as a customer, and I've been in at least two Smiths stores where the Haye product is stocked in such a fashion so they will have had to spend significant sums on their distribution and given the price point and the niche nature of the product I can't envsisage circumstances where they'll be able to generate a return.
As for the content, I agree it's partly subjective, and that I'm liable to be more critical than most because of my 'insider knowledge', but it's simply that I'm fed up with people thinking publishing is just writing. It's weird, but there are certain businesses that anyone thinks they can do even though the evidence points to the opposite - restaurants, clubs, bars, magazines etc. Whereas there are other professions where people are happy to accept the experts actually do know better.
In this case, having a decent, young writer in the form of Elliott doesn't mean you don't have to have proper marketing, circulation and ad sales strategies, not to mention an experienced editor who can deliver on the objectives of the title.
The irony is that I'm a real Haye believer and some of his PR moves are right on the money - I bet he employs a good PR and/or agent to secure things like chat show spots and the cover of GQ, so why doesn't he and his team learn from that and apply the same approach to publishing and get 'experts' on board to do it for him?
Rant over

I have no problem with the rant - learnt something there so thank you.

I will make a point - I dont want you and your pal Mr Payne and your other toffy nose clever f*cker mates getting touchy either - you are clever chaps - and thus you are in the minority - magazines of the type Haye has brought in surely should appeal to the masses - I call them Joe Public or the people from the council estates or people like me who live in houses which are in negative equity - and using that line of thought I thought the content was spot on - but I keep coming back to the price issue which caters for you and Mr Payne who enjoy the odd pimms with your cucumber sarnies - I guess I am saying there is no consistency in their approach - ie the content is for me spot on for the masses but the price caters for you rich f*ckers.

Your last post comes out with another point which I want to pick up on - PR companies - I loose my f*cking marbles when Fight Academy used them - the first time was actually the first time I worked for them - Haye v Thompson - they were great for contacts - getting celebs to the fights and getting the lovely Jodie Marsh - but we involved them in some of the meetings prior to the fight and trust me with regards to how boxing shows work - I lost count the amount of times I stated "you cant do that, it wont work" - perhaps that was a fault on mine and others part - they are also rather expensive - so I guess yes they are good when they are used in the correct manner - ie getting stars and celebs to shows to buy the more expensive seats, getting the named boxer on various tv shows - but leave the organising of the show to the tea boys who know how things work.

Back to your previous post - the costs of bringing in such a publication to me is bloody astromical - please enlighten me - are you stating its virtually impossible for Haye to make a profit on this venture - or is he using a publisher who is simply giving so many £s for each magazine sold?

Spud wrote:I have no problem with the rant - learnt something there so thank you.
I will make a point - I dont want you and your pal Mr Payne and your other toffy nose clever f*cker mates getting touchy either - you are clever chaps - and thus you are in the minority - magazines of the type Haye has brought in surely should appeal to the masses - I call them Joe Public or the people from the council estates or people like me who live in houses which are in negative equity - and using that line of thought I thought the content was spot on.
Your last post comes out with another point which I want to pick up on - PR companies - I loose my f*cking marbles when Fight Academy used them - Back to your previous post - the costs of bringing in such a publication to me is bloody astromical - please enlighten me - are you stating its virtually impossible for Haye to make a profit on this venture - or is he using a publisher who is simply giving so many £s for each magazine sold?

Spud, no toffee nose on me fella - father was a manual worker from Ireland with no qualifications to his name and I went to a local compehensive. I genuinely don't think views on content are determined by social class or background, it's far more nuanced than that.
As for PR companies, as with any type of business there are good ones and bad ones - it's really as simple as getting one that understands the mechanics and looks to enhance or build on them.
Finally, in terms of the publication, I'm not privvy to any private financial arrangements, but taken at face value, I'm absolutely saying this publication will be a loss-maker for the Hayemaker. I'm in no doubt as to that.

Deserter,

Other than the b*llocks these womens magazine's have with loads of photos of celebs with sensational headlines - are you stating it is virtually impossible to start up a new magazine/publication without making a loss?? - or is it simply you have to go with a publicist who has other magazines which can stand the losses of yours until it comes popular?

Maybe the 'showdown' when that tall one handed black man gold medallist from years ago bowls in and stutters deluded shite at Haye, just like Derren Brown does, will make this excersize worthwhile in the fact it would make the back page, and garner more interest in a fight between our HW champ that nobody over there knows yet, not even Dana White, and the tall one handed black man gold medallist from years ago.




Who is gonna ask him to sort it out and come out of retirement?

Spud wrote:Deserter, Other than the b*llocks these womens magazine's have with loads of photos of celebs with sensational headlines - are you stating it is virtually impossible to start up a new magazine/publication without making a loss?? - or is it simply you have to go with a publicist who has other magazines which can stand the losses of yours until it comes popular?

Mate, I'll keep it brief as I'm conscious I'm potentially boring the tits off everyone else, but in answer to your question:
1) The 'barriers to entry' in terms of launching a new title are harder then ever - the cost of paper, the availability of advertising revenue in a saturated market etc. To give it some context, if you're going to have a proper nationwide circulation you need to have about 30,000 quid to get into the likes of WH Smiths and other newsagents for a three-month period and if you don't achieve sufficient sales during that period you'll still run the risk of being 'delisted'. Tesco accounts for approximately 30% of all magazine sales these days and you won't even be able to get on their shelves from day one regardless of how much money you've got, unless they decide it's the right 'fit' for their audience - there are far more magazines than they've got space for so the fight to get listed by Tesco is huge, with publishers trying to scramble over one another to get 'on board'.
2) There are still magazines out there making good money but I can hardly think of any 'start ups' in recent years that have managed to make that breakthrough... and things are getting tougher in most sectors e.g. FHM used to make about 10 million quid a year from what I've been told from people who worked at EMAP (now Bauer), but these days I suspect it's barely breaking even. It's not impossible, but it's extremely high risk, and virtually all publishers or start-ups are looking at digital ventures now, especially with the emergence of the ipad etc. That's where the future lies...

Deserter,

Certainly not boring me - thanks for the reply.

well I went and he was charming.

getting to shake the hand of the world heavyweight champ is not to be sneezed at