BoxRec

Yes, he did take a beating, and I guarantee you Duran was plenty sore the following morning.

Seamus wrote:Yes, he did take a beating, and I guarantee you Duran was plenty sore the following morning.

Duran was still out partying the next morning. Not a scratch on him.

SaadOffTheDeck wrote:

Scottrf wrote:

SaadOffTheDeck wrote:Leonard over Duran is comedy.

Not as comedy as Joe Louis top 10, and above Ali who had far better opposition.

Benitez, Hearns, Duran 2 and Hagler, he has some of the greatest wins of all time, as well as a great all round skillset. Quibble over the manner of victories or longevity but you prove your greatness against great fighters.

It depends on what you rate clearly, so to scorn over someone elses list is ignorant.

Duran and Leonard fought at their best and it wasn't close. I agree that a mythical list is just that, but Duran> Leonard any way you want to cut it.

Agreed his top wins are THE best ever. But dropping the ball and going home matters and on his best day Roberto kicked his ass.

I agree with you. That first Duran-Leonard fight was not even close at all. The media wanted to portray to the American public that the fight was close. It looked close because of Leonard's holding like a sissy tactics. Fight!!! And then, they say that he "slugged it out" with Duran? People called that "slugging it out"? Slugging it out means Duran vs De Jesus II, or Chacon vs Bazooka Limon IV...That is slugging it out!. Not that Leonard crap of holding and fighting for SURVIVAL.

Then, they come that Leonard forgot his boxing skills and fought Duran's fight. Like if Duran was not supposed to win the fight anyway. Like if Duran was a brute fighter. Duran showed his greatness by using angles and outboxing the boxer. Leonard was so surprised of Duran's speed and skill. Hey, that night, Duran surprised me.

I agree with you SaadoftheDeck

My top 10:
1a. Sugar Ray Robinson
1b. Harry Greb
3. Sam Langford
4. Henry Armstrong
5. Ezzard Charles
6. Muhammad Ali
7. Roberto Duran
8. Willie Pep
9. Joe Louis
10. Archie Moore
As for the Duran vs Leonard I, the fight was competitive but it was a clear Duran win in my view. It was something like 9 – 6 in favor of Duran for me.

SaadOffTheDeck wrote:

dempseyfire wrote:

SaadOffTheDeck wrote:
My point was Duran and Leonard fought at their best and Leonard was dominated. That isn't mythical, it happened. Your bellyache over Ali & Joe is up for debate. Duran vs Leonard is not, Roberto was greater and that is factual. My mind is made up, the facts are in and your placement is laughable. Sorry little buddy, the rest of your list is just fine.

I think we've debated about this ridiculous assertion before, but Leonard was by NO MEANS dominated. Leonard-Duran I was razor razor-close. Only a complete Leonard hater would see through foggy glasses to think Duran at all 'dominated' that fight . . .

As for another poster's comment about Robinson beating 10 Hall of Famers, Greb beat more hall of fame fighters, MORE times, so get your facts straight before posting.

Yup, and every time it happens you're wrong. It was competitive, so dominated is a stretch. Not nearly as big a stretch as razor close.

A decision for leonard would have been a robbery. He got beat up. Marquez/Izzy 3 was razor close. This was akin to Frazier/Ali 1. A great fight with an extremely clear winner. The only bias is anyone who can come up with a scenario where Leonard won.

I didn't say Leonard deserved the decision, but Duran didn't win that fight by more than 2 rounds. A draw would have not been a terrible decision. But just too many people who hated Leonard and his image and loved the tough, machismo Duran to deal with reality . . .

Reality is a clear Duran win, that's what happened in the ring. A draw would have been a joke.

I had it 10-5 Duran watching it live. The judges' scores were weird: Judge Raymond Baldeyrou of France scored it 6-4-5 for Duran. Judge Harry Gibbs scored it 6-5-4. Judge Angelo Poletti scored it an incredible 3-2-10.

I thought the fight belonged to Duran. He controlled the momentum and dominated the fight. I thought Leonard put up a courageous fight - he earned my admiration in that respect - but it was Duran's fight. It seemed to me that Duran eased up in the last two rounds.

I'm with Saad on this one.

raylawpc wrote:I had it 10-5 Duran watching it live. The judges' scores were weird: Judge Raymond Baldeyrou of France scored it 6-4-5 for Duran. Judge Harry Gibbs scored it 6-5-4. Judge Angelo Poletti scored it an incredible 3-2-10.

I thought the fight belonged to Duran. He controlled the momentum and dominated the fight. I thought Leonard put up a courageous fight - he earned my admiration in that respect - but it was Duran's fight. It seemed to me that Duran eased up in the last two rounds.

I'm with Saad on this one.

When you say "watching it live" were you at the fight?

I remember Duran sweeping the first 5 rounds (though little happeend in the 1st) maybe first 6... Then it seems that both men fight one another to a standstill with Duran using his early lead to hold back when he needs to.

A draw is nonsense. The fight was extremely competitive but there's a clear winner.

Idisagree wrote:My top 10:
1a. Sugar Ray Leonard
1b. Harry Greb
3. Sam Langford
4. Henry Armstrong
5. Ezzard Charles
6. Muhammad Ali
7. Roberto Duran
8. Willie Pep
9. Joe Louis
10. Archie Moore
As for the Duran vs Leonard I, the fight was competitive but it was a clear Duran win in my view. It was something like 9 – 6 in favor of Duran for me.

No SRR and SRL at #1 Shocking!!!!

Like it or not, there were some sportswriters, commentators who thought Leonard won the fight. Ferdie Pacheco probably being the biggest name.

As I said before, give Duran every close round in that fight and he wins easily, just like if you give Duran every close round against Hagler (and I'm sure we have many who did), it could be a 1 pt fight.

Ezzard wrote:

raylawpc wrote:I had it 10-5 Duran watching it live. The judges' scores were weird: Judge Raymond Baldeyrou of France scored it 6-4-5 for Duran. Judge Harry Gibbs scored it 6-5-4. Judge Angelo Poletti scored it an incredible 3-2-10.

I thought the fight belonged to Duran. He controlled the momentum and dominated the fight. I thought Leonard put up a courageous fight - he earned my admiration in that respect - but it was Duran's fight. It seemed to me that Duran eased up in the last two rounds.

I'm with Saad on this one.

When you say "watching it live" were you at the fight?

I remember Duran sweeping the first 5 rounds (though little happeend in the 1st) maybe first 6... Then it seems that both men fight one another to a standstill with Duran using his early lead to hold back when he needs to.

A draw is nonsense. The fight was extremely competitive but there's a clear winner.

I wish I'd been there!! No, I meant real time. I wasn't there. I just can't remember whether it was on my TV or closed circuit. I think it was closed circuit and then later rebroadcast on NBC.

my two-penneth: in the rounds Duran won, he in several of them beat the crap out of Leonard; the highlight-reel beating against the ropes in i think rd 3 or 4 being the pinnacle. the rounds Leonard won, were won less clearly, and with much less damage done, IMO.

i personally think Leonard got credit in the scoring for some untidy wide flurries, in which a lot of shots were missing or getting blocked/slipped; he got credit in the scoring for volume over accuracy.

How come the "top 10 of all time p4p" topic has turned in to Duran vs Leonard I ?

There are countless threads for this already, and, quite frankly, the topic has already been worn to death.

Jaywheel wrote:

Idisagree wrote:My top 10:
1a. Sugar Ray Robinson
1b. Harry Greb
3. Sam Langford
4. Henry Armstrong
5. Ezzard Charles
6. Muhammad Ali
7. Roberto Duran
8. Willie Pep
9. Joe Louis
10. Archie Moore

As for the Duran vs Leonard I, the fight was competitive but it was a clear Duran win in my view. It was something like 9 – 6 in favor of Duran for me.

No SRR and SRL at #1 Shocking!!!!

Thank you for pointing that out. Now is fixed.

Okay, give me the top 10 of your lifetime...

Ezzard wrote:Okay, give me the top 10 of your lifetime...

1. Muhammad Ali
2. Roberto Duran
3. Sugar Ray Leonard
4. Marvin Hagler
5. Carlos Monzon
6. Pernell Whitaker
7. Thomas Hearns
8. Julio C. Chavez
9. Alexis Arguello
10. Evander Holyfield

Idisagree wrote:

Ezzard wrote:Okay, give me the top 10 of your lifetime...

1. Muhammad Ali
2. Roberto Duran
3. Sugar Ray Leonard
4. Marvin Hagler
5. Carlos Monzon
6. Pernell Whitaker
7. Thomas Hearns
8. Julio C. Chavez
9. Alexis Arguello
10. Evander Holyfield

Great list, however, I don't believe Whitaker is better than Hearns. Tommy had tougher opponents and if they ever faced off, I'm afraid Pernell might not last the distance.

1. Duran
2. Pac
3. Leonard
4. Hagler
5. Hearns
6. Holyfield
7. Hopkins
8. Whittaker
9. Chavez
10. Spinks

Hm: Nelson, Sanchez, Arguello, Fenech, De La Hoya, Holmes, Mayweather

Ezzard wrote:1. Duran
2. Pac
3. Leonard
4. Hagler
5. Hearns
6. Holyfield
7. Hopkins
8. Whittaker
9. Chavez
10. Spinks

Hm: Nelson, Sanchez, Arguello, Fenech, De La Hoya, Holmes, Mayweather

This list is quite atrocious. Sugar Ray Robinson not even on your honorable mention?

Pacquiao over Hearns?

Spinks over Ali and Louis?

I believe this list is from fighters in Ezzard's lifetime, so Robinson, Louis, and maybe Ali would not be on it.

Surely he knew that because he'd just complimented the list above?

Ezzard wrote:1. Duran
2. Pac
3. Leonard
4. Hagler
5. Hearns
6. Holyfield
7. Hopkins
8. Whittaker
9. Chavez
10. Spinks

Hm: Nelson, Sanchez, Arguello, Fenech, De La Hoya, Holmes, Mayweather

I truly hope you are joking. Pac above Leonard, Hagler, Whitaker, and Hearns? Head to head he could not compete with any of them. Could imagine Pac fighting Leonard or Hearns at welter? Leonard and Hearns would have murdered him. His best win above 135 was Cotto and Cotto was damaged goods. Do you really think he is a better fighter? Hagler would have been too big and I don't think Pac would have signed to fight him unless it was at a catch-up weight to his advantage. I could hear the news, Hagler vs Pac for the middle-weight title at 150 lbs catch-up weight

At 135 Whitaker would have school Pac so bad it would not be funny.

Hopkins above Whitaker is inconceivable too.

Ambling Alp wrote:I believe this list is from fighters in Ezzard's lifetime, so Robinson, Louis, and maybe Ali would not be on it.

My bad.

Still, Hearns would have beaten Pacquiao. He was the better fighter.

1. Harry Greb
2. Ray Robinson
3. Henry Armstrong
4. Sam Langford
5. Bob Fitzsimmons
6. Roberto Duran
7. Ezzard Charles
8. Packey McFarland
9. Joe Gans
10. Benny Leonard

Admittedly, that's an off-the-top-of-the-head list. I'm not big into listing, so don't take it too seriously.

Top p4p list of all-time:
1. Henry Armstrong
2. Sugar Ray Robinson
3. Sam Langford
4. Roberto Duran
5. Willie Pep
6. Harry Greb
7. Muhammad Ali
8. Jimmy Wilde
9. Joe Louis
10. Joe Gans

Of my lifetime:

1. Roberto Duran
2. Manny Pacquiao
3. Muhammad Ali
4. Carlos Monzon
5. Sugar Ray Leonard
5. Pernell Whitaker
6. Julio Cesar Chavez
7. Marvin Hagler
8. Alexis Arguello
9. Evander Holyfield
10. Jose "Mantequilla" Napoles