BoxRec

Here is the baby New Year's goat.

Pound for pound....no doubt.... and puttin' the dog's in their place.

Brilliant thread, keep up the great work guys.

BoxBuzz wrote:just remember this is not the genuine granberry, even the orignial granner was not this "differently opinionated". lol.


Dontcha just love the whole "PC" thing?

I miss granberry.... he obviously ruffled alot of feathers... i thought he was quality

GranberryReturns wrote:He would have easily beat George Foreman if the referee would have enforced the rules and not allowed him to push to create distance.

confident posters are ... funny.

Like some other prolific posters (you know who you are), GranberryReturns is merely stirring up a hornet's nest by being facetious.
If you think, instead of blindly react, you'll quickly know which threads are serious and which are presented for entertainment purposes only.

I rank Joe Frazier as the 12th best ever heavyweight, behind Harry Wills, Wladimir Klitschko, Muhammad Ali, Lennox Lewis, Evander Holyfield, Mike Tyson, Joe Louis, Vitali Klitschko, Larry Holmes, George Foreman and Riddick Bowe.

Simon Lock wrote:I rank Joe Frazier as the 12th best ever heavyweight, behind Harry Wills, Wladimir Klitschko, Muhammad Ali, Lennox Lewis, Evander Holyfield, Mike Tyson, Joe Louis, Vitali Klitschko, Larry Holmes, George Foreman and Riddick Bowe.

I'm afraid to ask about the order of those names. Is Harry or Riddick the top man?


Actually there may be a night of Riddick's life where no one could have beaten him. But one top shelf night does not a goat make. And Harry, well I'm not sure anyone has seen enough of his work to place him there.

Some good names on that list...I can say that for a positive remark.

Simon Lock hope your joking with your ranking.
Joe Frazier was nothing but one of the greatest of all times.
Maybe you meant Marvis Frazier?????? Now that would make your rankings pretty good.

BoxBuzz wrote:I'm afraid to ask about the order of those names. Is Harry or Riddick the top man?


Actually there may be a night of Riddick's life where no one could have beaten him. But one top shelf night does not a goat make. And Harry, well I'm not sure anyone has seen enough of his work to place him there.

Some good names on that list...I can say that for a positive remark.

Either way you slice it, he has one of the Klitchko's ahead of Ali.

He's a funny guy.

The list has Harry Wills at the top. Having considered it more, I think that Sam Langford should be included, leaving the list as below.

1 ) Harry Wills
2 ) Wladimir Klitschko
3 ) Muhammad Ali
4 ) Lennox Lewis
5 ) Evander Holyfield
6 ) Mike Tyson
7 ) Joe Louis
8 ) Vitali Klitschko
9 ) Larry Holmes
10 ) George Foreman
11 ) Sam Langford
12 ) Riddick Bowe
13 ) Joe Frazier

Some people have expressed surprise at the high ranking of Riddick Bowe. Can anyone name a heavyweight not on this list who you think should be ranked above him?

To be the greatest heavyweight of all time, you can't get blown out in two rounds by George Foreman.

keithmoonhangover wrote:To be the greatest heavyweight of all time, you can't get blown out in two rounds by George Foreman.

Or knocked out by Max Schmeling, or have your ass kicked and your jaw broken by Kenny Norton? I guess with that logic we're only left with Marciano.

and Joe Mesi...

Simon Lock wrote:The list has Harry Wills at the top. Having considered it more, I think that Sam Langford should be included, leaving the list as below.

1 ) Harry Wills
2 ) Wladimir Klitschko
3 ) Muhammad Ali
4 ) Lennox Lewis
5 ) Evander Holyfield
6 ) Mike Tyson
7 ) Joe Louis
8 ) Vitali Klitschko
9 ) Larry Holmes
10 ) George Foreman
11 ) Sam Langford
12 ) Riddick Bowe
13 ) Joe Frazier

Some people have expressed surprise at the high ranking of Riddick Bowe. Can anyone name a heavyweight not on this list who you think should be ranked above him?

This ranking could get Simon Locked.

Jaywheel wrote:and Joe Mesi...

Good call. We could add JD Chapman as well.

The Great John L wrote:

keithmoonhangover wrote:To be the greatest heavyweight of all time, you can't get blown out in two rounds by George Foreman.

Or knocked out by Max Schmeling, or have your ass kicked and your jaw broken by Kenny Norton? I guess with that logic we're only left with Marciano.

Not.... worth.... replying.

Simon Lock wrote:The list has Harry Wills at the top. Having considered it more, I think that Sam Langford should be included, leaving the list as below.

1 ) Harry Wills
2 ) Wladimir Klitschko
3 ) Muhammad Ali
4 ) Lennox Lewis
5 ) Evander Holyfield
6 ) Mike Tyson
7 ) Joe Louis
8 ) Vitali Klitschko
9 ) Larry Holmes
10 ) George Foreman
11 ) Sam Langford
12 ) Riddick Bowe
13 ) Joe Frazier

Some people have expressed surprise at the high ranking of Riddick Bowe. Can anyone name a heavyweight not on this list who you think should be ranked above him?

Would agree that any one of these fighters on a given night could beat Frazier. Not neccesarily every night, but all have the skills to topple Joe. Frazier probably would have outworked the often lazy Bowe, but yes, on his best night, Bowe could derail Frazier. He was one of the finest inside-outside heavyweights ever.
It's not the bad list that so many of Frazier's forever fawning fans would like you to believe.

The Great John L wrote:

keithmoonhangover wrote:To be the greatest heavyweight of all time, you can't get blown out in two rounds by George Foreman.

Or knocked out by Max Schmeling, or have your ass kicked and your jaw broken by Kenny Norton?

in all fairness, louis avenged the loss of his
very early days in pretty dramatic fashion.
and suffering a broken jaw can hardly be on
par with being punished twice without any
hope of winning.

apples. oranges.

man wrote:

The Great John L wrote:

keithmoonhangover wrote:To be the greatest heavyweight of all time, you can't get blown out in two rounds by George Foreman.

Or knocked out by Max Schmeling, or have your ass kicked and your jaw broken by Kenny Norton?

in all fairness, louis avenged the loss of his
very early days in pretty dramatic fashion.
and suffering a broken jaw can hardly be on
par with being punished twice without any
hope of winning.

apples. oranges.

Forget the "twice" bit, bud.

In 1976, Smoke was shot, shot, shot and that second Foreman fight should be disregarded.

The first fight Joe took him lightly, came in unprepared + past prime, and got cold-cocked early.

Very FEW heavies in history get up from that Foreman uppercut causing the second knockdown.

It was a testament to Joe's greatness and warrior spirit that he kept getting up.

yancey wrote: Forget the "twice" bit, bud.

In 1976, Smoke was shot, shot, shot and that second Foreman fight should be disregarded.

The first fight Joe took him lightly, came in unprepared + past prime, and got cold-cocked early.

Very FEW heavies in history get up from that Foreman uppercut causing the second knockdown.

It was a testament to Joe's greatness and warrior spirit that he kept getting up.

well. we are talking GOAT here. another candidate
for that very GOAT destroyed that very foreman
and basically ended his career at top level.

in 1976 joe was 32. if you are the greatest of all
time at heavies you should not be "shot, shot, shot"
by that age.

ron lyle took a lot from foreman, so did ali.

my point is, that, while frazier was undoubtedly a
deserving and great champion, you need a lot of
twists and turns - as your post indicates - to make
him ... GOAT.

yancey wrote:The first fight Joe took him lightly, came in unprepared

on a side note ... really? he took the big bad
terrifying olympic champion with the devastating
record lightly? and smokin' joe frazier of all people,
the boxer with the perfect work ethic came in
unprepared?

i respect defending your man. it is an honorable
endeavor, but that seems a stretch of a stretch.

of course the great smokin' joe frazier is not
the greatest of all time. it is a nice title for a
thread and an amusing thought, but it is by no
doubt an outlier opinion, that would not find too
much resonance with boxing historians.

man wrote:

yancey wrote:The first fight Joe took him lightly, came in unprepared

on a side note ... really? he took the big bad
terrifying olympic champion with the devastating
record lightly? and smokin' joe frazier of all people,
the boxer with the perfect work ethic came in
unprepared?

i respect defending your man. it is an honorable
endeavor, but that seems a stretch of a stretch.

Hardly.

Foreman was a pretty significant underdog because he had been matched extremely soft after he struggled with former LH contender Peralta again in their second fight. Foreman’s opponents after the second Peralta fight leading up to Kingston almost make Wilders competition look tough. His handlers recognized his shortcomings and matched him accordingly.

Unfortunately for Joe, I don’t think he or his handlers fully understood just how powerful the crude Foreman actually was. That’s not to say that Joe would have ever been able to outfight George, but he certainly showed the ability to adapt when he was younger as he fought much better in the second Bonavena fight against an opponent that dropped him a few times in their first fight.

The Great John L wrote:Hardly.

Foreman was a pretty significant underdog because he had been matched extremely soft after he struggled with former LH contender Peralta again in their second fight. Foreman’s opponents after the second Peralta fight leading up to Kingston almost make Wilders competition look tough. His handlers recognized his shortcomings and matched him accordingly.

Unfortunately for Joe, I don’t think he or his handlers fully understood just how powerful the crude Foreman actually was.

i do not deny at all that foreman's famous
early run sounded more impressive than it
was at second glance. but frazier was not
the type to be in any way ever unprepared.
so i think whatever he thought pre-fight did
not have much influence on the outcome of
their first meeting.

but never get me wrong, i am only disputing
the GOAT status, not his greatness.