BoxRec

gizmo1 wrote:

Deserter wrote:

JDC wrote: Can we stop bring Muslim into every Khan thread. Its getting rather sad.

I happen to agree in most cases, but ironically I feel it's a valid reference on this occasion. Getting noshed off by a club 'slapper' is hardly in line with most Islamic conventions, which frown on forms of sexual intimacy outside of marriage.
I'm not a great fan of hypocrisy in any context, and don't see why Khan should get a 'pass' on this occasion purely because of the wider context of Islamophobia.

You are right that sexual acts outside marriage are frowned upon and forbidden for Muslims but so is participating in Pro boxing according to most scholars of Islam and Judaism. Someone on this thread mentioned Amir Khan being a strict Muslim but you can't be a strict Muslim and a Pro boxer. It's a contradiction in terms. As for Amir's 'squeeky clean Muslim image', I think that was tarnished the day he took up pro boxing.

I have to say that as someone who has lived in the Middle East for pretty much the past decade, this is the first time I've ever come across that claim regarding pro boxing and Islam.

Deserter wrote:

gizmo1 wrote:

Deserter wrote: I happen to agree in most cases, but ironically I feel it's a valid reference on this occasion. Getting noshed off by a club 'slapper' is hardly in line with most Islamic conventions, which frown on forms of sexual intimacy outside of marriage.
I'm not a great fan of hypocrisy in any context, and don't see why Khan should get a 'pass' on this occasion purely because of the wider context of Islamophobia.

You are right that sexual acts outside marriage are frowned upon and forbidden for Muslims but so is participating in Pro boxing according to most scholars of Islam and Judaism. Someone on this thread mentioned Amir Khan being a strict Muslim but you can't be a strict Muslim and a Pro boxer. It's a contradiction in terms. As for Amir's 'squeeky clean Muslim image', I think that was tarnished the day he took up pro boxing.

I have to say that as someone who has lived in the Middle East for pretty much the past decade, this is the first time I've ever come across that claim regarding pro boxing and Islam.

I looked it up and apparently it is true. Here is an interesting link discussing why Muslims should not box.

http://www.islam-qa.com/en/ref/10238

There might be Islamic religious authorities who have a different point of view, but based on my Google search, boxing is forbidden by most of them.

crusader wrote:I looked it up and apparently it is true. Here is an interesting link discussing why Muslims should not box.
http://www.islam-qa.com/en/ref/10238
There might be Islamic religious authorities who have a different point of view, but based on my Google search, boxing is forbidden by most of them.

I'm not necessarily disputing that fella. I was merely stating a fact. And the one thing I can say categorically based on my knowledge and friendships in this region is that the views regarding sexual relationships are far more prevalent and strongly felt than those regarding pro boxing.
Returning to the original point, I still think it was 'fair game' on this occasion to reference Amir's religion rather than it being viewed as persecution.

I was just posting that for interests sake. I wasn't challenging anything you were saying.

I don't see why his religion needed to be brought up. The Bible says people should not accumulate great amounts of wealth, yet no one seems to mention this when a Christian boxer is making a lot of money and ostentatiously displaying what he can do with it. Pretty much everyone violates some code of their religion, so it seems pointless to mention it, at least in my opinion. If Khan were a Christian boxer, would anyone have brought up his religion? I don't think so. No one ever brings up religion when stuff like this happens to someone who subscribes to a more 'western' religion.

crusader wrote:I was just posting that for interests sake. I wasn't challenging anything you were saying.

I don't see why his religion needed to be brought up. The Bible says people should not accumulate great amounts of wealth, yet no one seems to mention this when a Christian boxer is making a lot of money and ostentatiously displaying what he can do with it. Pretty much everyone violates some code of their religion, so it seems pointless to mention it, at least in my opinion. If Khan were a Christian boxer, would anyone have brought up his religion? I don't think so. No one ever brings up religion when stuff like this happens to someone who subscribes to a more 'western' religion.

Sure, didn't mean to infer you were, and I think you're making a decent point. The only distinction I'd draw is that Khan/Khan's team do or did seem to be the ones making 'noise' about his faith rather than it simply being other people picking up on it.
I actually think that it's a reasonably level playing field - I've seen plenty of occasions where Holyfield has (rightly) been criticised for his claims to be a Christian and yet being ostentatious and fathering so many children out of wedlock.

crusader wrote:I was just posting that for interests sake. I wasn't challenging anything you were saying.

I don't see why his religion needed to be brought up. The Bible says people should not accumulate great amounts of wealth, yet no one seems to mention this when a Christian boxer is making a lot of money and ostentatiously displaying what he can do with it. Pretty much everyone violates some code of their religion, so it seems pointless to mention it, at least in my opinion. If Khan were a Christian boxer, would anyone have brought up his religion? I don't think so. No one ever brings up religion when stuff like this happens to someone who subscribes to a more 'western' religion.

The reason why i brought up his faith is because thats a large part of how he is marketed so if you're going to sell yourself like that then you've got to be open to criticism.If say Dmitry Salita was caught doing these types of things it would be big news too as he's a strict orthodox jew and again is marketed in that way.

lefty wrote:

crusader wrote:I was just posting that for interests sake. I wasn't challenging anything you were saying.

I don't see why his religion needed to be brought up. The Bible says people should not accumulate great amounts of wealth, yet no one seems to mention this when a Christian boxer is making a lot of money and ostentatiously displaying what he can do with it. Pretty much everyone violates some code of their religion, so it seems pointless to mention it, at least in my opinion. If Khan were a Christian boxer, would anyone have brought up his religion? I don't think so. No one ever brings up religion when stuff like this happens to someone who subscribes to a more 'western' religion.

The reason why i brought up his faith is because thats a large part of how he is marketed so if you're going to sell yourself like that then you've got to be open to criticism.If say Dmitry Salita was caught doing these types of things it would be big news too as he's a strict orthodox jew and again is marketed in that way.

Good point - organised religion is laughable though. As soon as I hear someone push religion in my face you realise they are just an ignorant, stupid soul.

I can understand an uneducated guy in a backwater area believing in it; but in the modern educated world; claiming to be religious is just like climing you're an imbecile and believe in fairy tales.

Deserter wrote:

gizmo1 wrote:

Deserter wrote: I happen to agree in most cases, but ironically I feel it's a valid reference on this occasion. Getting noshed off by a club 'slapper' is hardly in line with most Islamic conventions, which frown on forms of sexual intimacy outside of marriage.
I'm not a great fan of hypocrisy in any context, and don't see why Khan should get a 'pass' on this occasion purely because of the wider context of Islamophobia.

You are right that sexual acts outside marriage are frowned upon and forbidden for Muslims but so is participating in Pro boxing according to most scholars of Islam and Judaism. Someone on this thread mentioned Amir Khan being a strict Muslim but you can't be a strict Muslim and a Pro boxer. It's a contradiction in terms. As for Amir's 'squeeky clean Muslim image', I think that was tarnished the day he took up pro boxing.

I have to say that as someone who has lived in the Middle East for pretty much the past decade, this is the first time I've ever come across that claim regarding pro boxing and Islam.

I can definitely believe that Deserter, for I have witnessed it myself but what I have stated is true and most people do not know. In addition to the reasons in the fatwa posted by Crusader, boxing and gambling go hand in hand. The income generated by gambling is part and parcel of pro boxing and Muslims are strictly forbidden from gambling or having any links to gambling. Yet we see many Muslims play the lottery or bet on football, boxing etc. Boxing is also forbidden in Judaism, yet we saw with Yuri Foreman that he is training to be a Rabbi yet is still continuing to fight contrary to the the advice of Rabbis all over the world. However, as you say, this is not normally known or understood by the Muslim or Jew you meet on the street in the Middle East or the West for that matter. I am sure if you look in detail at Christianity, Hinduism or Buddhism then you'll see that boxing would not be allowed in these religions either but in Judaism and Islam it is clearly forbidden.

gizmo1 wrote:I can definitely believe that Deserter, for I have witnessed it myself but what I have stated is true and most people do not know. In addition to the reasons in the fatwa posted by Crusader, boxing and gambling go hand in hand. The income generated by gambling is part and parcel of pro boxing and Muslims are strictly forbidden from gambling or having any links to gambling. Yet we see many Muslims play the lottery or bet on football, boxing etc. Boxing is also forbidden in Judaism, yet we saw with Yuri Foreman that he is training to be a Rabbi yet is still continuing to fight contrary to the the advice of Rabbis all over the world. However, as you say, this is not normally known or understood by the Muslim or Jew you meet on the street in the Middle East or the West for that matter. I am sure if you look in detail at Christianity, Hinduism or Buddhism then you'll see that boxing would not be allowed in these religions either but in Judaism and Islam it is clearly forbidden.

Thanks for such a considered reply Gizmo