BoxRec

crusader wrote:

tonyevs wrote:Cleverly did show a sloppy defence - but showed a fantastic chin

I would put a sizeable bet on Cleverly KO-ing Brahmer quite early. Brahmer is a sloppier version of Froch .. without the sturdier chin.

My only concerns with Cleverly is that he tries to copy the Calzaghe mold. Inexperienced trainer/coach, relying on fitness and granite chin too much.
He is a very young guy. I`d like to see an experienced trainer brought in to get him using his size and skill advantages foremost ... otherwise he could find himself having a very short career.

I think comments like that are a little extreme. Brahmer's chin is not that bad, and he certainly hits much harder than Murat. He knocked out Brancalion in 83 seconds, while it took Clev 5 rounds (and Brancalion got in some shots). Common opponents don't always mean much, but Brahmer has done enough in his career to suggest to me that he isn't blown away early. Also, I really think Clev's power is overated. He hit Murat with everything he had and couldn't really put him away. Aside from that stoppage win, he has only halted domestic opponents and of course Brancalion, which hardly proves he has the power to KO world class opponents in a couple rounds.

As you`ve said - common opponents don`t really mean much. And I would back up my comment with a sizeable wager if and when the fight is made.

Cleverlys speed and work-rate, I feel, would get to Brahmer sooner rather than later ... but of course, Clev would have to keep things tighter than lastnight.


I agree, Cleverly may not be the biggest puncher - but hits hard enough and the work rate will make up the rest.

leforge wrote:

Autobarn wrote:campillo's possibly a harder fight than braehmer. might be better to fight braehmer for a world title than campillo for just a european.

in terms of risk and reward, you'd think cleverly wouldn't be matched with campillo unless he absolutely had to, for no less than a world title.

also, clev beat murat who edged campillo...so if it can be avoided, it will be and he can say he's above campillo. this i what i think, or at least have been conditioned to think.

Warren has won the bids for fight according to EBU site

i am stunned. this does not feel right. he'll defend vs a former world champ in only a european title fight? that's not like the business of european boxing.

perhaps it is campillo's lack of punch and the fact that the spaniard isn't really well represented and has to travel, being the deciders?

this sounds pleasantly surprising.

'barn/Crusader - thanks for the feedback guys

semes like cleverly stole the show, whether we think he's going to mop up pascal, dawson, cloud and shumenov in his next 4 fights, or whether he'll take a slightly more diplomatic route.

I was very impressed with Cleverly last night - however to say e is ready for the likes of Jean Pascal is stretching it a tadge.

Yes he has proved he is very good - but to put him into the elite bracket - its a tadge too soon.

the really encouraging thing about cleverly is that he can just keep on punching, and in this manner he has something that made calzaghe a top fighter.

Black Sam Bellamy wrote:Who does Bomber think he should fight ? And Tony what did you think about Clev's performance ? Don't think you'd want the fight would you ?

I'd jump at the fight!!!! He should stay away from Chris Henry and Brahmer iimo, Listen Nathan is 6ft 2inch and stood toe 2 toe with a 5ft 10inch guy AGAIN!! Justblike he did with Oakey,McIntosh,Brancalion!! he will beat the lighter punching fighters as his defence won't be an issue BUT against elite punchers like the 2 guys above he'll be exposed, If people think he'll beat Pascal,Cloud or Hopkins there crazy!! he's good at what he does that's it imo..

I was impressed by his fitness. He threw non stop punches against Murat, some of them very heavy shots. murat had a granite chin.

Pascal would knock Cleverly out, as would Cloud. The thought of him fighting Hopkins is just too weird to contemplate.

He needs to tighten up his defence and throw more to the body. Great talent, but certainly not the finished article yet.

I`d like to see Bomber get a crack at him. That would be an interesting one.

He's not great on the inside either, he needs room/leverage to throw his shots properly. A seasoned, smaller fighter would just take that space away from him and hurt him.

not impressed by cloud. he was rubbish and knackered vs an arm punching, grunting, old glen johnson.

Bomber who else is fighting on your bill Friday?

if cleverly really does go from murat to campillo, that is impressive. those are 2 opponents whom a world champion would not be disgraced in defending against.

i mean this in the nicest way possible, but i think someone should send cleverly a video of jhonny gonzalez's last fight, the stoppage of jackson asiku, to see how a tall fighter can box well outside, can get in seamlessly and use short punches, can get out again - controlling a fight up close and from a distance.

i know money is being spent on macklin training with roach. and no doubt that does macklin a lot of good. but, maybe clev needs it more? is it possible that with cleverly his technique has gone a bit "in bred", that he could do with "getting out" and modifying a bit? perhaps he is just very ungainly and will succeed, winning a world title and being alright especially if he's fighting at home.

most importantly, clev can fight, can take a punch, is fast, can keep punching. however, will we see the fine tuning?

no doubt, nathan stole the show - it would not have been worth the £15 on next month's statement, without him and murat at it.

can't see clev fighting bellow any time soon.
He needs to tighten up his defence, but I thought it was a good performance.
He's 3 or 4 fights away from fighting the likes of pascale.

I'm looking forward to him fighting in december.
Could warren match him against roy jones?

Bomber - How do you see yourself making up ground in the pecking order after Cleverly`s showing?

I realise Nathan is at the forefront with Fwank. But he is seen as work in progress with his age etc. Do you see this stiffling your chances somewhat?

Autobarn wrote:not impressed by cloud. he was rubbish and knackered vs an arm punching, grunting, old glen johnson.

I was really impressed with Cloud's toughness. It's quite rare to see a fighter take it to Johnson and come out on top.

Great showing by Cleverly, his stock's risen in my eyes although I still have my doubts.

Bomber 1 wrote:

Black Sam Bellamy wrote:Who does Bomber think he should fight ? And Tony what did you think about Clev's performance ? Don't think you'd want the fight would you ?

I'd jump at the fight!!!! He should stay away from Chris Henry and Brahmer iimo, Listen Nathan is 6ft 2inch and stood toe 2 toe with a 5ft 10inch guy AGAIN!! Justblike he did with Oakey,McIntosh,Brancalion!! he will beat the lighter punching fighters as his defence won't be an issue BUT against elite punchers like the 2 guys above he'll be exposed, If people think he'll beat Pascal,Cloud or Hopkins there crazy!! he's good at what he does that's it imo..

Tony we've discussed Clev before and what i saw on Saturday confirmed what i thought, a big puncher (no names mentioned) with good skills can KO Clev, I am sure. the way he backs straight away from right hands is an open invitation... not sure what he thinks he's doing with his right shoulder but it ain't protecting his chin, and his chin pops right up when he throws a left hook too.

well given clev is moving into world class, he'll end up vacating the EBU title and perhaps then it'll be bellew's shot.

As good as Nathan looked - I still think he needs another 12mths before tackling the Clouds, Dawsons and Pascals.

Theres little chance of Fwank allowing Cleverly to move down a level to face Tony Bellew in that time. So just wondering if treading water in the meantime is the best move when already matches are hard to make??

12 months?

based on the big welsh precedent, it make take 8 years!

however, it does seem like an era of more aggressive matchmaking post calzaghe, and if cleverly goes from murat to campillo, like i said, those 2 fights are better than most champions' title defenses.

Great time for Cleverly at the moment. With Dawson somewhat out of the picture, it seems Cleverley will have a sizeable natural size advantage over most of the Light Heavyweights.

Hopkins vs Pascal winner, neither are massive Light Heavy's - same with Brahmer. Although the likely opponent for a vacant WBO title fight would be a true Light Heavyweights with viscious power - Henry.

Cleverly in some ways reminds me of Froch, a big guy for the weight but doesn't utilise his size that well. Neglects the jab somewhat and focuses on brawling. I would say he is quicker than Froch, with a better work rate but not the natural strength or sheer one punch KO power of Froch (I'm talking P4P now). I think he could "Carl Froch" Pascal - mainly cause Jean will be giving away alot more in terms of Natural strength.

Where Clev might come unstuck is against Boxers - someone like Dawson could make him look a bit silly (weird me saying that given Dawson's last performance). I don't know if Dawson will be willing to engage in the tactics Murat had.

I've been a bit of a fan of Brahmer, but I feel his style is all wrong for Clev - plus I think he's coming to the end of the road, so I would actually give Clev much more of a chance vs Brahmer than someone with big at the weight like Chris Henry.

Clev's big problem is going to be when he outgrows Light Heavy and just becomes an average sized Cruiser. Like Joe Calzaghe, his strength is his handspeed, workrate and strength - moving up could be problematic.

He is way, way quicker than Froch.

stujones wrote:Great time for Cleverly at the moment. With Dawson somewhat out of the picture, it seems Cleverley will have a sizeable natural size advantage over most of the Light Heavyweights.

Hopkins vs Pascal winner, neither are massive Light Heavy's - same with Brahmer. Although the likely opponent for a vacant WBO title fight would be a true Light Heavyweights with viscious power - Henry.

Cleverly in some ways reminds me of Froch, a big guy for the weight but doesn't utilise his size that well. Neglects the jab somewhat and focuses on brawling. I would say he is quicker than Froch, with a better work rate but not the natural strength or sheer one punch KO power of Froch (I'm talking P4P now). I think he could "Carl Froch" Pascal - mainly cause Jean will be giving away alot more in terms of Natural strength.

Where Clev might come unstuck is against Boxers - someone like Dawson could make him look a bit silly (weird me saying that given Dawson's last performance). I don't know if Dawson will be willing to engage in the tactics Murat had.

I've been a bit of a fan of Brahmer, but I feel his style is all wrong for Clev - plus I think he's coming to the end of the road, so I would actually give Clev much more of a chance vs Brahmer than someone with big at the weight like Chris Henry.

Clev's big problem is going to be when he outgrows Light Heavy and just becomes an average sized Cruiser. Like Joe Calzaghe, his strength is his handspeed, workrate and strength - moving up could be problematic.

Awful lot of sense in this post, henry will maul him. Clev will give it to him for the first 4 rounds but he'll still be there and that's when Clev will have the problems. Dawson will give him far too many angles and is far more accurate than people think. Brahmer is a 1 punch artist so fighting him would be mayhem, Best bet is someone like Yusef mack or maybe Campillo?? Best bet for a world title fight is shuemenov although he is a dangerous fight and that would be a real 50/50 with him and Clev.. They are very much alike but Clev carries the higher and better workrate.. I just hope once again he stays unbeaten..

All of Brahmer's lacklustre performances have always been around times in his life, that he's belted a policeman or some random guy who bumped into him in his car.

The guy has spent over 4 years of his life in prison.

He is a nasty tempered piece of work - and the success Clev would have, is all dependant on what version comes into the ring.

G0mez wrote:All of Brahmer's lacklustre performances have always been around times in his life, that he's belted a policeman or some random guy who bumped into him in his car.

The guy has spent over 4 years of his life in prison.

He is a nasty tempered piece of work - and the success Clev would have, is all dependant on what version comes into the ring.

Very true, I don't see him as a natural Light Heavyweight though and I think his power has declined as he's moved up the weights. He's a frustrating fighter cause when he is not on his game he can look poor - he was awful the first fight vs Veit - in the rematch he was a changed fighter. He'll need to be on his a game, cause there will be no second chances if he loses.

Doesn't he have a KO win over Hatton in the amas? Anyone seen it?